What does this diet look like

[Pehsness]

No hay test. I’m just curious what people more knowledgeable think (not currently feeding this diet, but considering adding supplements).

• 20 - 30 lbs grass hay, quality but not tested
• 3 lbs split in two feeds soaked tim alfalfa hay cubes
• recommended amount of omneity
• 1/4 c w3 oil, split in to two feeds
• 1 tbsp salt, per feed
• tri-acta
  Thinking of adding
• Spirulina (have fed before)
• jioagulan
• vit e/selenium
• whole oats
• magnesium

My objectives are to increase immune support to help with ERU, occasional fecal water syndrome, increase energy and replace free access to green grass (there is a grass paddock but access is restricted).

I waffle with the supplements because of cost, but I want a strong 3 more years with him before retirement (low level stuff) and wonder if I should just bite the bullet.

[Scribbler]

@Pehsness

No hay test. I’m just curious what people more knowledgeable think (not currently feeding this diet, but considering adding supplements).

• 20 - 30 lbs grass hay, quality but not tested
• 3 lbs split in two feeds soaked tim alfalfa hay cubes
• recommended amount of omneity
• 1/4 c w3 oil, split in to two feeds
• 1 tbsp salt, per feed
• tri-acta
  Thinking of adding
• Spirulina (have fed before)
• jioagulan
• vit e/selenium
• whole oats
• magnesium

My objectives are to increase immune support to help with ERU, occasional fecal water syndrome, increase energy and replace free access to green grass (there is a grass paddock but access is restricted).

I waffle with the supplements because of cost, but I want a strong 3 more years with him before retirement (low level stuff) and wonder if I should just bite the bullet.

Omneity already has selenium and magnesium. You don’t want to overdose selenium, that can kill a horse.

I assume the hay cubes are just a carrier for the supplements as that’s not enough alfalfa intake to do anything.

Everything will depend on the quality of the hay.

How much oats?

[Simkie]

Your “optional” list doesn’t really read like optional stuff, but rather things that a horse either needs or doesn’t. Selenium in particular. If the horse is testing low, selenium should be supplemented to that need. If the horse hasn’t tested low, it shouldn’t be added.

What are you hoping to accomplish with the spirulina, oats and magnesium? I’ve read of using jiaogulan for laminitis, is that why you’re thinking of adding it?

[Pehsness]

@Scribbler

Everything will depend on the quality of the hay.

How much oats?

The hay is good quality, but varied sources (same supplier, different growers/fields)

Oats just a small amount - 1-2 cups a day.

[Pehsness]

@Simkie

What are you hoping to accomplish with the spirulina, oats and magnesium? I’ve read of using jiaogulan for laminitis, is that why you’re thinking of adding it?

I’ve fed spirulina in the past for allergies, and it did WONDERS for him. Eliminated a cough. The cough is no longer an issue (because better hay) but it is supposed to have “immune support” benefits, as does the jioagulan. It’s not for laminitis - I used both of them at one time as well in an effort to help the uveitis (one of those “can’t hurt, might help”).

The magnesium… good question. I can’t remember why that was once recommended to me, I’ll have to look it up.

The oats purely for energy.

He looks fine - good hair coat, good condition. I’m just contemplating throwing the kitchen sink at his diet even for minimal gains in longevity.

[Pehsness]

The E/Se pondering is because of this blurb from Mad Barns site:

Natural E/Organic Se is a pelleted supplement that combines highly bioavailable natural vitamin E and organic selenium to support optimal antioxidant status in your horse. This palatable supplement helps maintain muscle function, the immune system, and post-exercise care, especially when fresh pasture is not available.

• Natural ingredients for better absorption and utilization
• Protects against oxidative damage in cells and muscle tissue
• Supports neuromuscular health and overall well-being
• Ideal for horses in selenium-deficient areas or on hay-based diets

Where is live the soil is known to be low in selenium. But perhaps the omneity covers that.

[SonnysMom]

We recently got a Dartmore pony in that can be pretty loose according to the prior owner. He came with Chia seeds. Chia is also good for the coat. Bonus they are cheap.
Personally if they are not getting a lot of grass I add Outlast.
I would also consider a ration balancer such as Enrich.
I don’t know anything about jioagulan, not a fan of whole oats as I feel a large portion passes through undigested. I have not personally found magnesium to make a difference at least in behavior. Most hunter riders use mag to suppress energy.
One of the horses at my barn has ERU. They use the Equivisor for turn-out/daytime hand grazing, while being shod in the open bright alley.
They use a dark fly mask when jumping outdoors. They tried a pair of the UV horse goggles but it seemed to negatively affect his depth perception. He would trip over ground poles, and miss jumping distances.

[Pehsness]

@SonnysMom

Most hunter riders use mag to suppress energy.

oh, opposite of what I want - scratch that off the list!

[JB]

@Pehsness

No hay test. I’m just curious what people more knowledgeable think (not currently feeding this diet, but considering adding supplements).

• 20 - 30 lbs grass hay, quality but not tested
• 3 lbs split in two feeds soaked tim alfalfa hay cubes
• recommended amount of omneity
• 1/4 c w3 oil, split in to two feeds
• 1 tbsp salt, per feed
• tri-acta
  Thinking of adding
• Spirulina (have fed before)
• jioagulan
• vit e/selenium
• whole oats
• magnesium

@Pehsness

Oats just a small amount - 1-2 cups a day.

so the oats are insignificant in the diet even from an energy perspective, there’s just not enough. If they help him finish his meals, great. If it just makes you feel better, it’s something you can eliminate. Not that it’s a real cost issue, it’s just one less then to scoop.

Is there a reason you have 3lb hay cubes and a forage balancer, rather than a regular feed which has a lower feeding rate? i’m not saying one is better, just curious, as it’s 2 things instead of 1

Omniety has 2.4mg in a 200gm serving. 2-3 is typical of a normal serving of most things - balancer, regular feed, etc. What makes you want to add an E/Se product?

A hay-only/mostly diet does need additional E and there’s not enough in Omneity, but unless he tests low in Se, he doesn’t need more. The E/Se products I know of have 1mg of Se, which isn’t going to hurt on top of 2.4mg

Always test the horse for Se before adding more than 1-2mg on top of what’s in hay and regular feed

Adding Mg - there’s only 5gm in the Omneity, it wouldn’t hurt to add 5-10gm more, but his hay likely has plenty

Spirulina and jioagulan - immune support is “possibly not, but won’t hurt” so that’s up to you

@SonnysMom

Most hunter riders use mag to suppress energy.

@Pehsness

oh, opposite of what I want - scratch that off the list!

Mg doesn’t suppress energy unless you’re delivering it IV and that’s illegal. Or, maybe, if you just add loads and loads, which isn’t good, more likely to lead to diarrhea than suppress energy, but if it’s leading to diarrhea, it might make him feel not quite right so “suppresses” energy that way.

Mg “calms” horses who are deficient and reacting to inappropriate muscle function.

[Simkie]

@Pehsness

The E/Se pondering is because of this blurb from Mad Barns site:

If a horse NEEDS supplemental selenium, this sounds like a fine choice. But to know need, you have to test the horse. Definitely don’t add more selenium without a blood test.

If you’ve seen good results with spirulina & jiaogulan for these issues, it’s certainly reasonable to add them again.

When I think of supporting older horses, joint health often comes into it. Is that a consideration at all?

[Pehsness]

@Simkie

When I think of supporting older horses, joint health often comes into it. Is that a consideration at all?

For sure - that is the Tri-Acta. I find it makes a big difference. For a while I noticed small hock sores and they disappeared with the Tri-Acta. Obviously I can’t connect that with a solid line, but I’m pretty sure it helps.

[Pehsness]

@JB

so the oats are insignificant in the diet even from an energy perspective, there’s just not enough. If they help him finish his meals, great. If it just makes you feel better, it’s something you can eliminate. Not that it’s a real cost issue, it’s just one less then to scoop.

Do you have any suggestions for added energy? I do try to stay away from bagged/prepared feeds just because of traumatic past experiences with a different horse (that is tongue in cheek or whatever that saying is, but definitely a kernel of truth, lol). Any commercial grains destroyed that mare (laminitis).

@JB

Is there a reason you have 3lb hay cubes and a forage balancer, rather than a regular feed which has a lower feeding rate? i’m not saying one is better, just curious, as it’s 2 things instead of 1

see above… PTSD from old mare. For her I went full timothy cubes. This guy I can at least do tim/alf (easier to find)

@JB

Omniety has 2.4mg in a 200gm serving. 2-3 is typical of a normal serving of most things - balancer, regular feed, etc. What makes you want to add an E/Se product?

After reading this thread I’m thinking it’s probably just the E I need… due to lack of grass?

[Pehsness]

I should add… I’m open to bagged feeds, cautiously!

[Scribbler]

@Pehsness

@Simkie

When I think of supporting older horses, joint health often comes into it. Is that a consideration at all?

For sure - that is the Tri-Acta. I find it makes a big difference. For a while I noticed small hock sores and they disappeared with the Tri-Acta. Obviously I can’t connect that with a solid line, but I’m pretty sure it helps.

Is hock sores from being stiff, or just from lying on hard ground? Do they push up differently when they are stiff?

With the Omneity and TriActra I am guessing you are in Canada. Omneity in a mash is certainly the best forage balancer option in my Canadian market where we don’t have the huge range of American ration balancers and feeds.

I agree, a couple of cups of oats are just for flavor, no energy effect. I don’t know how much oats you’d need to get noticeable energy difference! I have always hesitated to feed pounds and pounds of oats to my easy keeper, because obesity and founder. I would love a feed that increased energy in an easy going horse!

You should be reading the Omneity label to see what is included.

I went to a Pete Ramey hoof clinic/lecture a while back and he said he has seen horses with compromised hooves or sloughing hoof capsules because people double up on supplements and don’t pay attention to the total selenium intake.

[Pehsness]

I assumed the sores were from having a harder time getting up, but it was a guess.

[ThreeWishes]

My horse only gets hock sores from hard ground. He’s big. It will only occur usually if we are at a certain horse show that has as their flooring the hardest packed red clay sand you’ve ever seen. I will literally buy 12 bags of shavings for 3 days. And put 10 bags in the first day then add.

[Pehsness]

It’s possible the disappearance of the sores coincided with me matting the stall now that I think of it, lol.

Tri acta is $$$ so if i can get rid of it more the better!

[JB]

@Pehsness

Do you have any suggestions for added energy? I do try to stay away from bagged/prepared feeds just because of traumatic past experiences with a different horse (that is tongue in cheek or whatever that saying is, but definitely a kernel of truth, lol). Any commercial grains destroyed that mare (laminitis).

Energy in what way? Most energy comes from having a well-balanced diet + training + inherent personality.

The diet is pretty good, at least once you add the Vit E. It would be worth testing his level because if he’s low or even low normal, that might be why he doesn’t have the energy you feel he should have with the rest of the equation.

Training has to create the metabolic conditioning - muscles strength, cardio fitness - and the repsonsiveness to aids.

Personality is harder to manage, you’re not going to turn the horse who would like to just quickly walk away from something scary instead of gallop, into a “pro ride” horse like Jazz, but you can condition him physically and mentally to at least be more responsive and engaged.

If he doesn’t have metabolic issues, a good quality lower NSC (< 20% for sure, even < 15% for many) feed isn’t going to cause problems. He’s not consuming huge amounts of calories now, in addition to hay, so you’d be looking for something fed in the 3-4lb range for his weight. I know there are some, they’re just not coming to mind at the moment. I’ll think!

[Pehsness]

Energy for endurance I would say. It is coming as condition improves, but a bit more energy a bit longer will help with the conditioning.

I can’t feed more hay (physically - they can’t eat more) or more cubes (same, he just walks away and leaves the bottom). His weight is pretty much perfect, a bit of chub/ribs covered, but not fat.

[dmveventer]

@Pehsness

My objectives are to increase immune support to help with ERU, occasional fecal water syndrome, increase energy and replace free access to green grass (there is a grass paddock but access is restricted).

I waffle with the supplements because of cost, but I want a strong 3 more years with him before retirement (low level stuff) and wonder if I should just bite the bullet.

All of your stated goals are things I’d want to talk to my vet about before making any changes. Your money is probably better spent on solid vet work, joint injections or Adequan if that’s called for, and maybe some bodywork to help with the typical older horse aches and pains. These are higher up front costs but also a better return on investment than adding a bunch of supplements.

@JB

It would be worth testing his level because if he’s low or even low normal, that might be why he doesn’t have the energy you feel he should have with the rest of the equation.

Echoing this, and another good reason to test is if your horse is actually low enough to cause problems you probably want to do a loading dose for 6 weeks or so to get things back to normal before moving to maintenance. Most of the recommended doses you’ll see on supplement labels are actually pretty low, if you just add one without knowing where you stand you might not make a dent in the problem.