What exactly BO's do and don't do for their Working Students (WS)

[huntergal23]

As these posts are filled with young rider’s looking for Working Student (WS) opportunities, I was hoping a couple of you could share your experiences as to what has transpired at your own barns or what you have heard is commonly offered/provided to a WS (junior)at A show type barns. What is the most generous working student position you have ever come across? Was the WS given free board if they owned their own? Were they allowed to show “sale” horses at AA shows regularly or just worked them at home? If they showed, how regularly? Weekly? How many sale horses at any one time? Free lessons? If so how many a month? Do barn’s pay for all the WS’s entries, annual memberships and the horse’s braiding? Would they pay for the WS to ship and show a “sale horse” at indoors? For those with specific experiences, would the Equitation (Big Eq.) goals of the WS factor into the barn’s consideration at all when it comes to selling away a horse, selecting which shows to attend, filing classes with horses/riders to help qualify, etc. or would the WS always be expected to sacrifice their own goals for the benefit of the barn’s paying clients?

So, are these types of perks available at most A circuit barns or are any of these not regularly provided WS benefits? Also, do any of these seem outrageous to you?
Thanks.:winkgrin:

[SidesaddleRider]

Just to clarify… do you mean a full-time WS, that is taking classes online when they are not at the barn? Or a part-time WS, who is there after school/on weekends?

The amount of time they spend there will usually have a large impact on what benefits are given to them.

[Linny]

I have heard “WS” used to describe a student who is serving what could be considered an “apprenticeship” under a BNT (or “biggish” name trainer) and also about the 15yo who mucks 3 days a roof for a discount on board. It looks like the OP is referring to the former.
Seems like there could be as many arrangements as there are barns. I’m curious to see replies.

[Frivian]

Well, when I was in high school I was a “working student” but definitely it was VERY part-time and for non BNT. I basically worked off lessons and coaching fees so that I could afford to show. Working off lessons and coaching fees meant anything from grooming and mucking at the shows to exercising sale horses… it just depended on what she needed. At the time, I was her only working student so I didn’t have to share work with anyone else. Then later I worked off lessons for a different trainer, but I just traded barn chores for lessons. I was basically slave labor - 1 day of barn work (feeding/turning out/cleaning stalls) = 1 free lesson.

[soloudinhere]

[QUOTE=huntergal23;7565253]
As these posts are filled with young rider’s looking for Working Student (WS) opportunities, I was hoping a couple of you could share your experiences as to what has transpired at your own barns or what you have heard is commonly offered/provided to a WS (junior)at A show type barns. What is the most generous working student position you have ever come across? Was the WS given free board if they owned their own? Were they allowed to show “sale” horses at AA shows regularly or just worked them at home? If they showed, how regularly? Weekly? How many sale horses at any one time? Free lessons? If so how many a month? Do barn’s pay for all the WS’s entries, annual memberships and the horse’s braiding? Would they pay for the WS to ship and show a “sale horse” at indoors? For those with specific experiences, would the Equitation (Big Eq.) goals of the WS factor into the barn’s consideration at all when it comes to selling away a horse, selecting which shows to attend, filing classes with horses/riders to help qualify, etc. or would the WS always be expected to sacrifice their own goals for the benefit of the barn’s paying clients?

So, are these types of perks available at most A circuit barns or are any of these not regularly provided WS benefits? Also, do any of these seem outrageous to you?
Thanks.:winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

I think you are confusing “working student” with “assistant trainer.”

I don’t think any junior age student could possibly put in enough hours to receive:

1. board
2. housing
3. show entries
4. an equitation horse
5. braiding/grooming/etc

Generally a working student is able to work off board and lessons, and maybe housing if full time. It doesn’t generally in any case that I’ve seen cover weekly show entries, braiding, horses provided to ride, etc.

[Jumper_girl221]

I have a little girl that comes and cleans stalls and does general barn chores for a few hours. In exchange, she gets one lesson a week (same day she’s out working) and gets to show the lesson mare, but pays her own show fees.

She generally helps with show prep, cleans tack, loads in trailer etc. But I usually get the mare ready for the difficult stuff (clipping pulling etc). I do not charge her hauling or anything like that when we go to shows. When the mare is at an away function parents provide hay and shavings and stall fees, I provide grain and hauling.

[huntergal23]

To clarify, yes we are talking about a full time junior WS, not a weekend only stall cleaner in exchange for a lesson a weeks type. Also, no housing at home, but hotels paid on the road?

That being said, would most of you agree with soloudinhere’s statement, "

It doesn’t generally in any case that I’ve seen cover weekly show entries, braiding, horses provided to ride, etc."

[kmcnam]

I’ll add my own experiences to this thread!

I spent several years as a working student for a BNT. My experience in this case is probably a little unique because I started as a client first for the trainer, and then transitioned into a WS type relationship. I paid the expenses on my own horses, but in addition to that I got to ride as many as I could sit on in a day. I often jump-schooled on many different horses. I did some showing in addition to my own horses, but I certainly wasn’t campaigning any horses that weren’t mine. But many times when we were away at shows, I would be offered the warm-up rides on horses whose owners couldn’t come up during the week and things like that.

My contribution was just giving my time wherever it was needed. Riding, clipping, bathing, packing, loading, unloading, set up at shows, tear down, cleaning tack, throwing lunch, prepping horses, bringing them to the ring if there were conflicts, setting fences, etc. Just filling in the gaps wherever I could to make things run a little smoother. My accommodations for away shows was generally covered because I usually bunked in with staff. I still paid those splits on horse show bills though, so its not like other clients were being hurt by me being helped. I also actually lived on the farm for free, but that’s a little bit of a different story haha.

Since then I’ve moved, but this summer I will be a working student at a new farm. I anticipate similar duties, although with a bit more structure (in my previous experience I wasn’t explicitly working anything off so I really could do as much or as little as I liked, but I took on as much as I could). I may or may not have a horse this summer, but my coach said she will make sure I always have something to ride/show. I’ll pick up the expenses on anything I show, ie the show bill and braiding. I’m working in exchange for the coach’s show fees, so those are covered (and it’s about equal to what a groom would be paid). I’ll essentially be paying for the equivalent of one horse, and be guaranteed a ride, but without having to commit to a lease on something. Which is perfect for me because I love riding different types and I’ll be heading back to school at the end of the summer anyway. It was a little different when I was campaigning for year end finals.

Sorry for all the text! I could go on and on.

[huntergal23]

kmcnam, thanks very much for sharing your experience. Your quote,

I still paid those splits on horse show bills though, so its not like other clients were being hurt by me being helped.
also raises an interesting angle to these types of arrangements. Walking the fine line between helping the WS and pissing off your paying clients??? Anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks to all who take their precious time to contribute.

[lonewolf]

When I was a full-time WS I got housing and a small stipend a month.

I worked full-time at home and shows doing whatever was needed. I got to ride multiple horses a day, including schooling over fences.

I paid all concrete expenses for my own horse, at home and shows (meaning board, feed, entries, etc). Trainers did not own the barn, btw. They did train me on my own horse for free and did not charge shipping.

[PonyPenny]

[QUOTE=huntergal23;7565478]
kmcnam, thanks very much for sharing your experience. Your quote, also raises an interesting angle to these types of arrangements. Walking the fine line between helping the WS and pissing off your paying clients??? Anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks to all who take their precious time to contribute.[/QUOTE]

Since my daughter either showed the trainers horses or another clients horses, she never had to pay for her showing expenses including splits. It worked out better that my daughter did not own a horse at the time.

[HomelessPony]

It can really vary, even with A show type barns. When I was in high school, I was kind of a WS at my barn. I had my own green horse that I showed through the big eq but I used to ride as many as I could after school and on weekends. I would sometimes do lessons on sale horses that I didn’t pay for, and would sometimes show sale horses and other boarders’ horses and didn’t pay for entries. During college I did a WS position a few summers for a semi-BNT and brought my own horse. My board was greatly reduced to effectively the cost of feed and I did not pay for lessons on my horse. My duties as WS were riding up to 10 a day, both sale horses and boarders, and teaching a handful a lessons each week (mostly pony kids or helping with the barn’s small camp program). I also helped with setting jumps, office work overflow, and with the vet. I got to show a few times when owners couldn’t come up early in the week or if we needed a rider for a hack class. I later rode for a judge who had a few horses going and when I would show his horses, I would split the entries with him.

[gottagrey]

Much of it depends on the particular situation as others have mentioned - there are WS positions which for some trainers are more like apprenticeships and might include board for a horse, housing, lessons, and perhaps discounted showing fees (like coaching, shipping etc). A trainer friend of mine hires WS during her competition schedule where she’s offered them housing, lessons and discounted show fees + a small salary.

[kenyarider]

Question: if said “working student” is over 18 - what effect on pro/ammy status?

[ccr0009]

I spent two summers as a working student at an “a” show barn. My housing was provided on the property. Originally I was asked to pay half of board for my one and then two horses the next summer, but was never charged at the end.
I did muck stalls, tacked up clients horses, and cleaned the tack as soon as boarders got off on top of 100 other things. I received almost a lesson a day on my own horse, but was given between 4-6 horses to hack in-between. (During those rides, you were sure to get a few pointers) At shows I would be asked to hack horses on days they didn’t show, but never actually competed myself.

On top of the actual lessons you get, I think my most valuable tools gained were in the networking and meeting professionals across our area. I was able to travel with expenses covered and meals during those trips. They flew me to the Hamptons from Alabama, I spent 2 weeks in Lexington. I also held the job of ‘groom’ at shows, however I feel like because my job position was “working student” I never dealt with rudeness/low on totem pole. So, I was up at dark to take care of horses, but then invited to dinners and out with the trainers/riders later. This also meant I was invited to concerts, and given a pass to boarders’ Country Clubs. The extra bonuses were fun.
As a working student you’re part of the team, not a client. I felt a bit on an inner circle while I held my position. Most nights my legs hurt and I became a size 00 but looking back now I miss it.
It can be difficult to hold long-term positions unless you have some sort of strong financial backing or receive compensation. I urge those looking for a WS position, but are struggling to afford that lifestyle not to fret. While it can be beneficial to make a career, it isn’t the only way to go.

i gave up amateur status at 18. I was also asked to teach some lessons, so it would never have been ok if I had kept it.

[copper1]

If you are over 18 and a working student your ammy status is shot. (compensation for working) In most cases, a working student position can be a wonderful experience. One can learn so much about the care of horses and the riding and training of them. If you are thinking of taking this route it is best to remember it is not a permanent way of life and to research the position first as some WS are merely slave labor and do not get what was promised

[independentlyawesome]

I’ve been called a “working student” twice.

1. Working off lessons as a teenager. Officially it was 7 hours of work (feeding, picking stalls, turning out, grooming, etc.) for an hour lesson. There was a great group of kids there, though, so we often had so much fun we worked a lot more hours. There was a group of guys who came around the barn at night and mucked everything, so it was rarely hard labor. There are a lot of beginner students at the barn, so it was great for the trainer to have experienced kids who could teach them about grooming/tacking up/turnout while the trainer taught the previous lesson. Win-win.

2. Full-time working student after college at a training barn. Free housing, sometimes food, and lots of hands-on experience. Most of the work was grooming, treatments, feeding, etc. It sounded like a fantastic experience, except the barn manager didn’t tell me that she wanted morning, noon, afternoon, and night checks… which meant I couldn’t leave the property for longer than about 2 hours. 1 day off per week. I’ve been working for 12 years, and that is the only “job” I’ve ever quit before fulfilling my intended time there. I might have stayed if I was going into horses as a career since the training was good, but it was a miserable lifestyle.

[woodhillsmanhattan]

I had two different “working student” positions while a junior.

Position 1:
Part-time during the school year and full time during the summers. This position lasted about 2 years (2 full summers). I had my own horse. Any barn work was “paid” by the hour and was deducted from the board. I did evening chores after school and one day on the weekend (if I wasn’t at a horse show). All grooming for shows or training rides was “deducted” from my training fees. I basically just groomed, lunged, clipped, bathed, hacked horses, etc. and didn’t pay any lesson or training fees at home or the horse show. My trainer was also a vet, so the jobs also included teeth floating, lameness exams, etc. So that was fun and different from most working student positions! All show entry and trailering expenses were not compensated and I paid separately. I only showed my personal horse with the exception of the occasional under saddle class if my trainer had more than one client-owned or sale horse in a division. I did get to show two different sale horses, but they were free leases to me while my horse was injured so the paying arrangement was the same and I simply didn’t pay a lease fee. I also braided the majority of the horses and that was a separate from my working student position and I was paid by clients directly for that (that’s where the show entry $$ came ;)). During the summers it was a similar arrangement but I worked full time and received at least one lesson a day on my horse or a full training horse (more like constant coaching whenever I was riding something :lol:). If I worked at a 2-3 week horse show I was often paid directly as the hours I would put in put me ahead in $$.

Position 2:
This was about a month long position over the summer. My horse was injured so I joined my friend when she took her horse for a month of full training/lessons. Three of us were in charge of all barn work, grooming, tack cleaning, laundry, hacking, etc. of all the horses. I received at least one lesson a day on a sale, full training, or horse owned by the trainer. I rode about 5 horses a day. Helped design the jumping course daily (as well as painted and built jumps). Traveled a few times to help course design at some of the rated shows and events in the area. I received free housing and training. A few meals were provided but in general food expenses were up to me. There were no showing opportunities the time I was there (the trainer traveled a lot for course design).

[woodhillsmanhattan]

[QUOTE=copper1;7566214]
If you are over 18 and a working student your ammy status is shot. (compensation for working) In most cases, a working student position can be a wonderful experience. One can learn so much about the care of horses and the riding and training of them. If you are thinking of taking this route it is best to remember it is not a permanent way of life and to research the position first as some WS are merely slave labor and do not get what was promised[/QUOTE]

I believe you can be a “working student” as long as the “working” doesn’t entail any riding (horses that aren’t owned by you) or teaching. You can pick up poop in exchange for lessons/training on your personal horse as much as you want and still be an Ammy!..correct me if I am wrong.

[findeight]

There is no stock answer here, too many variables.

One pretty consistent observation as a client in several show barns- the more accomplished rider you are, the better your opportunity. Another would be you are better off NOT bringing a horse or won’t get free board if the board is north of 1k. You can’t put in enough work to support 2k a month of board and lessons and you won’t have a whole lot of time for your horse since trainer and client horses come first and yours gets whatever is left.

Like to also point out that somebody is paying those entry fees, it’s going on somebody’s bill…and that somebody expects the WS to be worth that, not a rider inexperienced at that level. Even true of sale horses, seller is being billed and expects ROI. Owner clients pay for professional trainer services and sometimes balk at assistant or non pro actually performing those services.

In the 3 h/j show barns I was in over 22 years (one for 17), WS or pro assistants could not bring a horse until they had been there at least 6 months and then paid discounted rate and paid their own show costs on personal horses. Clients were aware who was showing, had approval and were billed accordingly.