You are both wrong about number 6 then. Lukas even mentioned Bob at the Alibi breakfast. And what in the heck is a Derby Group?
To clarify - OP doesn’t miss Bob. I don’t either. I did say “I don’t know how much company we have”, meaning I am well aware that Baffert has a raft of supporters.
There is no “Triple Crown 2022.”
There is a Triple Crown ONLY if and when one horse wins the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, and the Belmont.
Otherwise, the title and the “crown” are not awarded, ergo, the Crown does not exist that year.
Referring to “the Triple Crown” before it is won started, to the best of my knowledge and memory, during the years after Affirmed won it for real. People got so desperate for another Triple Crown winner that they started talking of a “Triple Crown” as a set of 3 races instead of what it actually is, the award for 1 horse who wins those 3 races.
My understanding is that Rich Strike’s dam was sold so cheaply (and then given away) because she was believed to be infertile. A broodmare who can’t carry a foal has no monetary value. The current owner has now sent her to Rood & Riddle to see if that can be changed. It wasn’t about her bloodlines being “discarded” or “discounted”, but Rich Strike’s win in the Derby made it now worth it, economically, to move heaven and earth to try to get another foal out of the mare.
I am still trying to figure out what a Derby group is. I certainly hope whatever it is that I am not part of it. As far as the rest of @penelopeandthecats points it just feels too monumental to even start picking them apart so I will leave you all to it.
Why on earth would you think that Early Voting was talented “despite his bloodlines”?
He is by Gun Runner. His tail female line consists of 4 consecutive black type producers, his second Dam produced Speightstown and Irap, and his Dam Sire is Tiznow. What else could you possibly want?
I don’t like being disrespectful. But here’s my frustration with your opinions: following the Kentucky Derby since 1975 is not equivalent to boots on the ground experience. Of course, I sometimes forget everyone else doesn’t have 2 decades of “knowing” some of these posters.
I am also frustrated with myself for being very hypocritical— I am continuously irritated when racetrackers do exactly what I’m doing now, which is rudely brush off fans instead of engaging in discourse and education.
My problem with point 1 is that you imply that a $200k colt by one of the hottest sires in KY has poor bloodlines. Then you go on to state the obvious as if it is a great revelation. I know this is where I lost confidence in what you were using to support your opinions.
My problem with point 3 is a general disconnect to how things work in racing. It is one of the greatest compliments in racing to be a “horseman.” This is not a flavor of the month. And I don’t even understand what you are trying to say with the last sentence. Can you clarify that?
Your claim about Lukas in statement 4 was based on an incorrect understanding of how things work and a likely misinterpretation of Lukas’ statement.
I agree Epicenter is gorgeous.
I am really glad you are a fan and so passionate about this. It’s frustrating when assumptions are made about trainers/owners intentions. There are some real a$$holes in racing, but at the same time, what is happening at the apex of the sport each May isn’t as nefarious as you are implying. Not to be the “tone police,” but you haven’t presented yourself as someone receptive correcting wrong ideas. Maybe that’s where I am jumping to conclusions.
The fact that Rich Strike is 3 x 2 to Smart Strike, and that it is unusual to breed that close, is not a matter of opinion. His breeding has nothing to do with commercial breeding vs breeding to race and it may be problematic for a stallion prospect, unlike Early Voting, who has a stallion’s pedigree.
The “Derby group” also includes a few active TB breeders. Whose opinion most definitely matters, as their like or dislike of stallions affects the stallion’s desirability, location, and stud fee. 3x2 Smart Strike is a not a positive for many, when there are better choices available.
There are many VERY successful racehorses with millions in earnings who get exiled to state bred programs and foreign countries because their pedigrees are less desirable. It is quite true that a great runner can come from anywhere; but as a breeder when it’s your hard earned money and time on the line, you want a very proven female family with sire power supporting the stallion…not merely his own success.
I think what people forget and where the OP holds a strong opinion founded in ignorance is that “commercialism” is ultimately based on racing. Commercial matings are made on the premise that the resulting foal has a high probability to win races.
The problem lies in the fact that the buyers that breeders have to cater to only want to buy a very specific type of racehorse. They either want one of the top 10 proven sires whose fees are out of reach for mere mortals, OR they want to get a piece of the “next big thing” freshman sire. They predominately want dirt pedigrees that will hopefully get them to the 3 year old classics.
Rich Strike has quite a few things going against him on paper right now that make people skeptical he will be “the next big thing.” But I don’t have a crystal ball.
Reminiscent of C.C.to me.
A fair comparison. Although in post-Preakness May 2014, I think Chrome had more going for him on paper than Rich Stike currently does. Comparing their pages it’s six of one, half dozen of the other— both had more to knock about their pedigrees than to get excited about. But by May, Chrome had proved to be ahead of where Rich Strike is now performance-wise with more major wins to his name.
It’s all just speculation. Breeding success never makes perfect sense and most of what we know comes from hindsight.
I think I’ll Have Another is a good comparison, thus far anyway.
What, exactly, is a “ commercial breeder”? Seriously. Would think all breeders who produce animals with the intent of selling them are “commercial” to some extent, “ commercial breeder” seems redundant. Does she mean high volume? More famous?
Since Rich Strike’s dam had no “Monetary value,” he was born and had been passed along. Was she along the way or on the path to Mexico or Canada? I know there are some limited broodmare rescues, but not many. $1,700 is not much for what once was a Calumet may. Just curious, what do the breeders do with the 21-year-old mares in the industry once they use them up and they have “no monetary value?” Thye Zanyettas of the world that the owners love to have a home, but what happens to the rest?
Totally unnecessary, Chill. If you are angry give yourself a big hug. Below is my post . Take care.
On the big Kentucky farms, it’s not unusual to have a “retired mare field”. Even the smaller farm where my mares live has one. Rich Strike’s dam was sold when she was still of breeding age but her former connections hadn’t been able to get her in foal for several years–she was bought in the hope that new connections might do better (perhaps with more diligence than a big farm wanted to offer.)
I take issue with the idea that TB broodmares are “used up”. They are bred most years, but usually have a year off every 5-6 years, if not more frequently (that part being up to Mother Nature). And as TB broodmares they live a life of total equine luxury. I’d be willing to bet that most horses in the U.S, would swap lives with them in a heartbeat.
Zenyatta had owners who enjoyed promoting her on social media. There are hundreds of TB owners who do just as well by their mares but don’t feel the need to advertise that fact to the world.
It’s kind of insensitive and ignorant to assume every non-Zenyatta, aged broodmare ends up on a truck to Mexico. Does it happen? Sure. Happens to QH and backyard mares too.
But many of those older, infertile mares end up as hormonally-induced nursemares who are VERY valued and cared for. They are kept as weanling babysitters. A 22yo mare who has kindly raised 8-10 foals makes a wonderful nursemare and is pretty easy to return to lactation. Other farms have a designated “old lady field” where the retirees live out their days. Some end up at auction-- OBS, not the killers-- and are bought to use as leisurely trail horses. Some are given away to good homes (and then may fall victim to a neglect situation, outside of the breeder’s control). And on rare occasions, a failed broodmare is humanely euthanized if she cant be guaranteed a safe, productive and healthy life.
Recall Our M Iims from Calumet Farms, Alyday’s half-sister, and the Three Year Old Champion Filly? She was found on someone’s property starving, with skin and bones, and not in a good situation at all. Somewhere’ at some point her "life of “luxury ended,” she had “no monetary value,” to Calumet and she ended up in a bad place. The person that rescued her started a broodmare rescue farm in her name. I think she has a very different perspective on how the industry treats the older mares or aged broodmares once they can no longer produce and have no “monetary value.”
It is a challenge to rehome the TBs of the track once they start racing. I find it very difficult to believe that every aged broodmare with “no value monetary,” is going to spend her last days in the “retirement band,” of the farm. Sticking only to actual facts and numbers retrieved from reputable sources what percentage of broodmares end up on the slaughter path and what percentage end up in retirement once they have no “monetary value,” and can no longer be used for breeding? Do you know?