What I saw at the horse show

The Potomac Valley Dressage Association’s Fall recognized show was this past weekend. Here’s a couple of things I observed. I’m just tossing them out as potential topics for discussion.

Caveat: I’m sorry to be critical, because goodness knows the Fat Boy and I still can’t do what these people are doing!

-People were generally very pleasant, friendly, and chatty. I know a lot of the DQ stuff is joking, but I’ve honestly not seen much attitude-y stuff at dressage shows.

-Only 2 vendors. No shopping??? What a travesty! Okay, so I still managed to spend money, but I wonder why there weren’t more vendors.

-A very heavy woman riding a 4th level test who had absolutely no business in the class. Now, I like the fact that people of all shapes and sizes ride dressage - this is a good thing, IMHO. And in my uneducated opinion, I thought she rode reasonably well. Her seat and hands were pretty quiet, better than some of the other riders. But… the horse couldn’t even do the movements! Collected, medium, whatever - I saw no difference in the gaits. And all of his gaits could be fairly described as “cramped and shuffling.” Half pass looked more like moving in a diagonal line than actual bending.

Why would someone do this? Why enter a fairly high level test when you’re really not capable? What would be wrong with doing a 1st or 2nd level test, and doing a better job? I saw that someone in a 4th level test received a score of 38 or 39, and I suspect it was this pair.

-Next to no spectators, of course. Sad to hear six or seven pairs of hands clapping in the entire indoor stadium. And not very many entries, despite lovely weather and a nice facility. What’s with that?

Just sticking my neck out a bit here.

But maybe if your point was just about the degree of compentency at a certain level, it wasn’t necessary to mention at all the size of the rider. Unless you truly felt that was part of the equation.

Sometimes we just aren’t able to overlook those factors I guess. Because as you have noted, I know no one would say the emaciated looking skeleton of a woman had no business riding that level.

“The older I get, the better I used to be, but who the heck cares!”

I have to toss my hat in with those posters that believe HeyYouNags was attempting to paint a picture of a rider, not slam a particular person.
Which leads me to my next question…why are we so concerned about not using the phrase very overweight as a description?

if I was going to do anything, it would be to show in levels far beneath me, so that I could be the proverbial big fish in the small pond-then at least you could win, right? But, the major problem with that is , what is lower than Intro???Bwahahahha…
Once on one of the bb’s they mentioned you should show one level below what you school…and someone joked if they had a halt and walk class…!!

If the point of the post was to say that the horse and rider team were in a class beyond what they could handle, why did you feel it necessary to mention that she was so overweight?

If a skinny person had been riding 4th level and rode a bad test, would you have mentioned that?

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
Quote: " It sounds like “qualifying” would not have mattered as not a freestyle test? "There is a proposed rule change which would require “qualifying” for “straight” dressage as well as freestles.

It is discussed in this thread http://chronofhorse.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=691099205&f=502099205&m=6713091203.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would think qualifying for the “level” would be OK, but object to having to meet the highest test requirement. I think Training Level Test 1 (Or Intro Test 1), and especially kids should be encouraged to create and ride freestyles for their appropriate movements.

If the Fat Boy were to have a really bad horse day, and perform 3 levels below what we’ve entered, the resulting level would be “fetal”.

I took him to a clinic last week, and he did his best impression of a horse that had never been off the farm.

I used to think that some day I could ride Grand Prix. Now I’m hoping we can some day break through into Training Level. And I’m darned proud of his blue ribbon for Intro 2!

We all know that there has been much controversy over the weight issue in the hunter/jumper arena. Do you feel that it is such a large (no pun intended) issue in dressage?

A few years ago, a woman came to “inspect” my barn to see if it was up to her standards for her horse to be boarded here (we weren’t, as I don’t offer grooming/tacking up service). ANYWAY, she was very funny in a sarcastic, black humor sort of way, and we kept in touch via email as she got ready for an (recognized) dressage show, about 4 hours from here.

Now, mind you, I had never seen her ride. She talked a great ride - was up on best bloodlines and who was showing/winning, etc…her horse LOOKED great in his stall when I saw him…

At the last moment, I had to trailer a friend to the show (her truck broke down). And I got to see Miss Queen Bee ride…

It was, er, interesting. The horse and she were IMMACULATE; perfectly stylish. She, um, “rode” 2nd level - and I use that word very loosely. I’m not sure what was worse - the yanking hands, the spurring of the sides, or the POUNDING on that horse’s back. The “collected” canter was a 4-beat lope, the “medium” was a full out gallop, the trot was always the same - a very slow, jouncy sort of western-y trot. The judge ACTUALLY came OUT of the booth to scold her after the test. I think her scores were in the low 30’s…

The really funny part is that she didn’t ever see me there, and later emailed me to tell me how WONDERFUL her horse had been, and that they had Won the Class!!

Soon after, her horse began to have mysterious (only visible to her) lameness problems. The vet finally refused to come out anymore; she then took the horse to a Very Fancy Vet Clinic, and they told her the same thing. Since No One can see this lameness but her, the horse is now a very well groomed, fussed over NotEverToBeRidden pet.

comment during a freestyle clinic. He said you should perform your freestyle at a level lower than you are showing. One lady commented, “Can you do a freestyle on the lunge?”

The Potomac Valley Dressage Association’s Fall recognized show was this past weekend. Here’s a couple of things I observed. I’m just tossing them out as potential topics for discussion.

Caveat: I’m sorry to be critical, because goodness knows the Fat Boy and I still can’t do what these people are doing!

-People were generally very pleasant, friendly, and chatty. I know a lot of the DQ stuff is joking, but I’ve honestly not seen much attitude-y stuff at dressage shows.

-Only 2 vendors. No shopping??? What a travesty! Okay, so I still managed to spend money, but I wonder why there weren’t more vendors.

-A very heavy woman riding a 4th level test who had absolutely no business in the class. Now, I like the fact that people of all shapes and sizes ride dressage - this is a good thing, IMHO. And in my uneducated opinion, I thought she rode reasonably well. Her seat and hands were pretty quiet, better than some of the other riders. But… the horse couldn’t even do the movements! Collected, medium, whatever - I saw no difference in the gaits. And all of his gaits could be fairly described as “cramped and shuffling.” Half pass looked more like moving in a diagonal line than actual bending.

Why would someone do this? Why enter a fairly high level test when you’re really not capable? What would be wrong with doing a 1st or 2nd level test, and doing a better job? I saw that someone in a 4th level test received a score of 38 or 39, and I suspect it was this pair.

-Next to no spectators, of course. Sad to hear six or seven pairs of hands clapping in the entire indoor stadium. And not very many entries, despite lovely weather and a nice facility. What’s with that?

Weight issues aside–and perhaps the initial poster was trying to give us and image which is normal/inherant for writing a description–I think most, and I include myself, people are not going to go out and blatently embarass themselves by riding at a level so beyond what they are capable. I do think the number of rider who do this are still in the minority. This being said, this sport is a business for some, but the majority of people who ride are amateurs many of whom do not show that often. I don’t think someone who gets scores in the 40’s would be happy enough with that to do it week in and week out.

While I understand that is was very athestically unappealing (from a performance stand point) did the horse appear abused? The reason I point this out is because the spirit behind the proposed qualifying rule was two fold according to the author: to prevent abuse by poor rider, to level the playing field in accordance with the freestyle rule.

Hope I haven’t gotten too far off topic, but I think your observation would generate comment on the qualifying rule. I don’t personally know many people willing to humiliate themselves like that. I have a great deal more self respect.

But hey, nothing wrong with a little body image debate on the ol’ dressage board to liven things up.

I’m trying to celebrate our DQ diversity here, okay? The point in noting her size really wasn’t to subsequently slam her ride. The point was (for those who read the entire post) that I think it’s fantastic that people of all shapes and sizes compete in dressage. Period and amen. I am not now, nor have I ever been, described as “skinny”. In certain equestrian pursuits, such as around h/j people, I feel much more self-conscious than I do around dressage riders. And (prepare for flame attack) this gal was quite large. Not chubby. Not post-birthing plump, not middle-aged spread, not merely 75 to 100 lbs. overweight. And she rode with a quiet seat and steady hands (as I’ve said a couple of times). Which made it pretty surprising that the horse gave such a poor performance.

Had the rider, skinny and stick-like or round and plump, bounced on the horse’s back, ridden with tense, rigid hands and arms, or otherwise looked like a klutz, I would have blamed the horse’s performance on the rider. But as far as I could tell, that wasn’t the case. Sure, we all see people in second level tests who should still be working on 1st level tests, but this was 4th level, and in all honesty, it wouldn’t have received a very good score in 1st level.

I have another observation that I’d like to have explained (if anyone will still respond, now that I’m being branded a weight snob)… Why is it that some riders look soooo floppy in their upper bodies? This has nothing at all to do with size. And the people doing it are riding fairly effectively. But it looks like they’ve taken the notion of relaxing and letting the upper body absorb the shock of the sitting trot, just a bit too far? Their heads, necks, and upper arms sort of get flung around. They are keeping their seats in the saddle, and hands steady, but it’s sort of rag-doll look in the upper body.

What’s the line between absorbing the motion of the horse, and this, without winding up tense/stiff?

we then read the Chronicle with lovely pictures of hateful little children in the 12-16 year old range (yes, I have underwear and socks older than this)…getting awards for riding PSG and such…I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I am SURE it has something to do with the fact that my parents not loving me enough or something, right? …As I have said before, if I am the only one in the class, I will still take the ribbon…so I can pin it on my chest and walk around proudly-no one will know there was no competition, will they!LOLOL …Hey, before Will’s 2 months of trying to see how much money he can drain from my checking acct (via the vet), we were at First One…HoooHOOO…maybe we can get back there someday!
Sandy, I remember that comment-I will be the first to sign up for lunge classes…
aimee

Did you see anyone perform well?

You semi-apologize for being critical and then the only good thing you mention is the weather.

Surely there were some nice rides, a few happy horses, several appropriately-entered exhibitors…

… weren’t there?!

(I wasn’t at this show, but I’ve never been to any show where there wasn’t something at least adequate if not good in several of the rides… )

It sounds like “qualifying” would not have mattered as not a freestyle test? One of the reasons I object to qualifying is why make it harder to encourage someone to enjoy dressage? A regular test can still be ridden above correct level, but not the “fun test”? The purpose is to keep spectators from seeing “bad” dressage at a spectator “friendly” competition, but bad freestyles are not limited to those that qualify. In Atlanta, there were some wonderful Grand Prix tests, but the quality of Dressage really suffered in all of the freestyles. And the music was so distracting - 10 different changes of music, not blending, not fun. Trying to put way too much into the test - all in a jumble.

I do want to encourage freestyles, but not for the spectators. I think the doing freestyles will encourage the riders to have fun and juniors to enjoy dressage.

and this is a tangent, but Iam going for it…I have to agree that many larger riders are probably more fit than I am, who looks stick like. Ok, we were discussing saddle sizes the other night, and what puzzles me is “Why do large riders stuff themselves in tiny saddles?”…I used to be a pony clubber, and was taught to have a hand’s width behind the seat to the cantle. How can one be effective with a seat that is bulging up over the top and around the cantle? I have no problem with seeing larger riders ride-this is not my intent of my question, it’s the denial or whatever-buy a saddle that fits you and your horse, and it will look better, but more importantly work better.
Am I the only one who has noticed this? I only mention it because one of the ladies the other night who is about mid 250’s rides in a 17 inch saddle-that’s what I ride in and I weigh less than half that… I agree with the post saying that many middle aged women are riding dressage, and Hooray for that. (that would be me soon ), and these folks have whomped my skinny butt-I think as long as people fit their horses and are riding effectively, then size shouldn’t matter. The riding above your level is a totally different matter-to me, it begs the question “WHY???”…why would someone want to embarass themselves-like the last post mentioned, too interesting-and she boasted later she had won? Maybe the mentally delusional are beginning to take up the sport…egads.

Yes, of course there were lots of nice rides - I didn’t think that needed to be pointed out! Nice horses, nice rides, scores in the high 60’s and low 70’s, lovely turnout.

But that’s not going to start much discussion here, is it?

And not one horse in sight that was as fat as my Fat Boy, alas. Forget that notion of dressage horses being fat - these horses were taut and fit.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It sounds like “qualifying” would not have mattered as not a freestyle test? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is a proposed rule change which would require “qualifying” for “straight” dressage as well as freestles.

It is discussed in this thread Proposed rule.

Maybe???
Dressage is the last refuge of the delusional in my opinion.
Therefore I fit right in.
I can “fake” a certain level of dressage without killing myself or my horse.
I couldn’t “fake” a 3 ft course without doing myself a major injury.