What is your definition of a farrier?
Is a trimmer, new to the profession, that puts on an occasional glue on product considered a farrier? Should they be promoting themselves as a farrier?
Nope, not in my book.
[QUOTE=QH99;7318632]
What is your definition of a farrier?
Is a trimmer, new to the profession, that puts on an occasional glue on product considered a farrier? Should they be promoting themselves as a farrier?[/QUOTE]
This is a trick question ----------------------------right???
It depends…If said person went to farrier school program and thus has some “official” training and is just getting into the business, then he has a right to promote himself as a farrier. Owners can decide for themselves if he’s worth using.
Knowing how to trim obviously won’t make him a “good” farrier, but that’s a different ball of wax.
[QUOTE=walkinthewalk;7318647]
This is a trick question ----------------------------right???[/QUOTE]
The word “farrier” is derived from the Latin “ferrous” meaning “iron.” There was a time when “farrier” meant “a person who works with iron.” While most shoes today are made of steel the old iron derivation persists. Over time it has evolved to meaning “a person who shoes horses.” Up until very recently iron/steel was the only reliable substance for horse shoes.
If a person shoes horses with plastic are they still a “farrier”? I’ll bet you could start a pretty good fistfight at the next AFA convention with this one!!! 
For me, if the person does not shoe a horse they are not a “farrier.” This means “barefoot trimmers” are not “farriers.”
How about folks who trim and use plastic, aluminum, titanium, or other non-ferrous metals to shoe horses? Maybe we should call them “shoers.” Let’s let the winners of the fist fight decide! :lol:
G.
P.S. A person who works in iron (making decorative items and the like) could be called an “ironmonger” (an old term no longer specific to that trade) or and “ironworker.” This also has at least two broad meanings. One is “a person who works with iron” and the other is a construction worker to erects (or dismantles) the iron structure of a building. At the end of the day perhaps we’d be well off to remember our Shakespeare. 
My definition of a farrier is someone who has the ability to forge their own shoes (of whatever material, given the advances in horseshoe technology as Guilherme mentioned) if required. I have two “farriers”, one is a true farrier and custom-makes shoes, including welding on heart bars, for one of my horses. The other is a horseshoer, who comes out to trim and tack on pre-made shoes onto my two old guys.
One of the surgeons I routinely work with has a great saying: “There are a lot of good horseshoers out there but very few farriers.” It’s totally true. I have to haul 1.5 hours for the farrier mentioned above because no one else in my area can do it.
[QUOTE=morganpony86;7318712]
My definition of a farrier is someone who has the ability to forge their own shoes (of whatever material, given the advances in horseshoe technology as Guilherme mentioned) if required. I have two “farriers”, one is a true farrier and custom-makes shoes, including welding on heart bars, for one of my horses. The other is a horseshoer, who comes out to trim and tack on pre-made shoes onto my two old guys.
One of the surgeons I routinely work with has a great saying: “There are a lot of good horseshoers out there but very few farriers.” It’s totally true. I have to haul 1.5 hours for the farrier mentioned above because no one else in my area can do it.[/QUOTE]
What you are talking about is a blacksmith. A farrier doesn’t necessarily make his shoes from scratch, but can. A farrier #1 has an eye for balance and the ability to judge what type of shoe should be fitted onto each horse after the farrier has trimmed his foot into correct balance.
There are a lot of people out there shoeing who have absolutely no eye for balance, which I consider an innate quality. It seems that you either have it or you don’t.
To me a farrier is a professional who knows the structure of the hoof and the mechanical workings thereof… Someone who understands the basic conformational issues in horses and how best to engineer the foot to complement those or mitigate any problems resulting from them.
A farrier can trim , shoe , and adapt his methods to the horse in front of him not a horse in a text book. He or she will willingly work with other professionals ie Vet for the optimum care and comfort of the animal.
And honestly the description you give ?NOPE not a farrier… Even those who take the majikal courses cannot call themselves Farriers IMO until they have served an apprenticeship with some one with the knowledge and skills I have listed above.
[QUOTE=merrygoround;7318919]
What you are talking about is a blacksmith. [/QUOTE]
No, a Blacksmith is an iron WORKER, can make all the goods needed for a home, farm, out of metal. Hinges, locks, hook and eyes, nails, plow, swords and knives, armor! Put on a steel/iron wheel rim, new metal on a sleigh, make a chain, fix almost any metal object found on the farm in the past. He was an integral part of the Community, important because his skills were so essential to daily living. There also were the specialist Blacksmiths, working in a certain area of expertise, like the armor maker or the Railroad Blacksmith, Ship Builder Blacksmiths, making specialzed items for their customers.
While a Farrier can ALSO do Blacksmith work, his horse skill is separate and not part of a Blacksmith’s usual repertoire. There were a number of folks who were both Farrier and Blacksmith in the past, because you have to make enough money year around to be able to live. Both jobs would have busy and slack seasons, where the other skill set could keep the shop productive and earning a living for the owner and any employees.
I also believe a Farrier is a person able to make shoes, reshape factory shoes, to suit their customer needs. Has a deep knowledge of how horse hoof and legs work to let the animal perform as needed. Farrier is way beyond what a Barefoot trimmer is able to give their customer, because of Farrier ability to make what is needed to aid the equine. Not all Farriers are deeply skilled, there are bad and good ones.
I believe there are places for Barefoot Trimmers, but they have to stop believing they can “fix anything” with just some rasping of hooves. There are also good and bad Trimmers. Some times you have to get a Farrier to FIX THE HOOF after the Barefoot Trimmer!! Seeing that a lot locally!! Without the ability to work metal, a Barefoot Trimmer is NOT a Farrier.
A good Farrier SHOULD be able to trim a horse to use it barefoot, if horse has suitable hooves. Should NOT be a long and painful “transition” time for the horse. If horse hurts for very long, moves lame for a week after shoe removal, the horse needs help, probably with shoes.
Our horses can go from bare to shod, back to bare with no lameness, soreness, and that is HOW it should be. They can get ridden as quick as the Farrier puts down the last hoof, shod or bare, no “getting used to new feet” time needed. Again, this should be NORMAL for any horse after any Farrier or Barefoot Trimmer work. However I am extremely lucky to have a VERY experienced Farrier to do our horses, am knowledgeable about hooves and legs myself from previously being a Farrier myself. So I am not getting the “fast talking” experts trying to put things over on me with Name trims or puke shoe jobs.
I just don’t think a person who attends a Weekend Clinic or even a 5-Day Clinic, has much training, certainly not much experience, to be out calling them selves a qualified Trimmer. Farrier takes much longer. Person should have attended School for a while (more than 6-8 weeks!), done a LOT of varied type horses, worked metal in the forge, under supervision of qualified Teachers, before getting to call themselves a Farrier.
Honestly, I’ve never put that much thought into it. Farrier/blacksmith/trimmer…all different oranges from the same tree. When I think of a farrier, I think of a guy that works on my horse’s feet. Now, whether or not he is a qualified farrier, a well educated farrier, or a good farrier…that’s a different story. But just the term “farrier” is a loose term for what their career is, in my book.
[QUOTE=walkinthewalk;7318647]
This is a trick question ----------------------------right???[/QUOTE]
Not a trick question…
Maybe this is the reason why I asked. Too many people really do not know what the word means or even care.
There are a couple of trimmers, in my general area that throw the term around without thought. Because they are putting on shoes, all glue on and shoes with NO METAL, they feel that they can call themselves farriers. Maybe they feel its cute that they can call themselves farriers. I think it is misleading and false advertising.
Farrier/blacksmith/trimmer are NOT all from the same tree. Even a farrier and blacksmith are not the same. That is not to say a person cannot be qualified in multiple jobs.
[QUOTE=talkofthetown;7319199]
Honestly, I’ve never put that much thought into it. Farrier/blacksmith/trimmer…all different oranges from the same tree. When I think of a farrier, I think of a guy that works on my horse’s feet. Now, whether or not he is a qualified farrier, a well educated farrier, or a good farrier…that’s a different story. But just the term “farrier” is a loose term for what their career is, in my book.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this. My farrier calls himself a farrier. About half his clients are barefoot, half are shod, and some of his shod horses use synthetic and/or glue on shoes. But he also makes things from iron like door latches and hinges, and art work. My former BM called her farrier a blacksmith (I don’t think he ever corrected her), but I don’t know that he called himself a blacksmith, or if he ever made anything other than horseshoes. He could do the same work with horses that my farrier does, so I think whether he called himself a blacksmith or a farrier is pretty irrelevant.
If a farrier doesn’t EVER nail on shoes, then I would probably say the term farrier is a bit of a stretch…however, glue on products have come a long way. In my opinion, the bigger issue isn’t the name, it’s the quality of the work. Ask to see the work and ask for references. The name is not that important to me.
Guess for me, using the correct name for things means I am specific about the topic under discussion. Horse folks with knowledge, don’t talk about “the brown horse” when speaking about their pride and joy, new Warmblood! They use specific terms that other horse folks understand, bay gelding, 16H, no white, his breeding registry, to talk EXACTLY about this animal with other knowledgable folks.
I would imagine any true Farrier has long-since tired of correcting folks, customers, calling them a “blacksmith” instead, just lets it go on over his head. Just hearing how names of craftsmen/women are used in conversation with other people, tells them your degree of knowledge. I PROBABLY would know what you are talking about in hoof care people, but recognize that you are using an incorrect name for the job under discussion.
You can settle for being “sort of correct”, close to the topic, or get specific words to be exactly correct. After talking to some lawyer friends about this, their viewpoint on using the words in our language correctly, makes me work harder to be “spot on” in speaking of topics. Words are invented, used, to be exact in their references or when making points in discussions. Horse word references are many and often VERY specific, but getting used less and less because people don’t even know those terms exist! I see that happen right here on COTH, with posts on all the boards, which might be discipline specific terms. Too bad, such a loss of these terms is going to leave a lot of holes in knowledge, in times to come.
Even a farrier and blacksmith are not the same.
That depends. In some jurisdictions, it’s one trade. In other areas, “blacksmith” is no longer a recognized trade at all, but there are farriers who specialize in shoeing horses. Blacksmiths have long worked with steels and alloys, not just Iron.
Some of the farriers in my area, while they specialize in shoeing horses, were actually trained and apprenticed as Blacksmiths…and they tend to forge their own tools, and can do the usual gamut of nails, shoes, etc. They tend to belong to a local trade union that includes blacksmiths, even though blacksmith training is pretty hard to come by locally. Some of the other farriers in the area went to horseshoeing-specific training programs, and they do not have a right to join that (blacksmith) trade union. There is a professional organization for Farriers in the area as well. It doesn’t include trimmers.
To me, a real farrier went to a recognized trade program of some description, and apprenticed with a Master for a number of years. I expect farriers to be ABLE to forge their own shoes, but I also expect modern farriers to be aware of the alternatives available in shoeing technology.
Let me be more specific. A trimmer that occasionally uses glue on synthetics, because they believe metal shoes are bad, should not be calling themselves a farrier.
It does appear that some that have posted here are more forgiving.
[QUOTE=QH99;7321637]
Let me be more specific. A trimmer that occasionally uses glue on synthetics, because they believe metal shoes are bad, should not be calling themselves a farrier.
It does appear that some that have posted here are more forgiving.[/QUOTE]
O.K. so we know who you think should NOT call themselves a Farrier…
So please !! What is a Farrier in your estimation ?
Also never noticed any one posting anything forgiving about a person who’s skills were not up to the job at hand … some people perhaps prefer glue on products … and perhaps from experience have found metal shoes to be “bad” in some instances… not really cause IMO for condemnation of their opinions.
It always irks me when someone asks for “opinions” and then condems those who offer something different from what they themselves believe…
No such thing as a WRONG opinion… Even if that opinion is based only on personal or limited experience.
Was this thread started so you could start a rant about “barefoot trimmers” or people of choose “alternative” shoeing methods that you disagree with … If so have at it lets hear who and why ?
I didn’t see anyone slamming the barefoot trimmers, just saying they are NOT Farriers because they don’t work metal for shoes.
If someone doesn’t have the skills to do the job needed by the horse, they shouldn’t have attempted the job. Why forgive them?? They WASTED your time by even coming out, may have made the situation worse than when they started. I have no patience with a hoof care person trying to do VooDoo on a horse, barefoot or shod. I would be very clear on what my horse needed when we set up an appointment. Do it right, or admit this is a job beyond your skill and leave. NO, you don’t get paid for “visiting”.
If a customer insists on Glue-On shoes, then if it won’t hurt the horse, you put on Glue-On shoes. Is the hoof person wearing protective mask for fumes? They ARE dangerous, especially if you do a LOT of Glue-On shoes, builds up in the lungs. Know two Glue-On guys who no longer work on hooves, can’t breathe right anymore. Never used protective respirators.
Guess if you see condemnation, you are inventing it. I am not, thought we were doing VERY well in this discussion which is about NAME the Hoof Care person should be using to describe their work, depending on their ability or skills. Not seeing ranting, except your own.
[QUOTE=catherines;7321809]
O.K. so we know who you think should NOT call themselves a Farrier…
So please !! What is a Farrier in your estimation ?
Also never noticed any one posting anything forgiving about a person who’s skills were not up to the job at hand … some people perhaps prefer glue on products … and perhaps from experience have found metal shoes to be “bad” in some instances… not really cause IMO for condemnation of their opinions.
It always irks me when someone asks for “opinions” and then condems those who offer something different from what they themselves believe…
No such thing as a WRONG opinion… Even if that opinion is based only on personal or limited experience.
Was this thread started so you could start a rant about “barefoot trimmers” or people of choose “alternative” shoeing methods that you disagree with … If so have at it lets hear who and why ?[/QUOTE]
I guess I could have phrased it differently???
A trimmer is nor a farrier. Someone using only synthetic shoes is not a farrier.
goodhors - great post!
Questioning what a real farrier is… here’s a few links.
[QUOTE=goodhors;7321962]
I didn’t see anyone slamming the barefoot trimmers, just saying they are NOT Farriers because they don’t work metal for shoes.
If someone doesn’t have the skills to do the job needed by the horse, they shouldn’t have attempted the job. Why forgive them?? They WASTED your time by even coming out, may have made the situation worse than when they started. I have no patience with a hoof care person trying to do VooDoo on a horse, barefoot or shod. I would be very clear on what my horse needed when we set up an appointment. Do it right, or admit this is a job beyond your skill and leave. NO, you don’t get paid for “visiting”.
If a customer insists on Glue-On shoes, then if it won’t hurt the horse, you put on Glue-On shoes. Is the hoof person wearing protective mask for fumes? They ARE dangerous, especially if you do a LOT of Glue-On shoes, builds up in the lungs. Know two Glue-On guys who no longer work on hooves, can’t breathe right anymore. Never used protective respirators.
Guess if you see condemnation, you are inventing it. I am not, thought we were doing VERY well in this discussion which is about NAME the Hoof Care person should be using to describe their work, depending on their ability or skills. Not seeing ranting, except your own.[/QUOTE] Sorry just which part of my post qualifies as a rant ?
In my opinion the OP’s last post but one was condescending in tone and derogatory towards those who had offered opinions.
The question BTW in the OP was not about the NAME the hoof care person used … It was very specifically " What is your definition of a farrier ".
She got mutlitple definitions from people and as I stated was condescending and derogatory in tone in her response to them.
Perhaps as she stated in her last post she could have worded it differently and made the statements she did there in her original post and then asked for opinions.....
Any way there you go another rant … I guess ranting like condemnation is all in how things are perceived.
:winkgrin:
