What is appropriate resolution for bad hay received?

[Milocalwinnings]

I moved two of my horses home this weekend and had a few round bales delivered. They were advertised “very nice horse quality” hay. The hay itself is actually really nice, but it is FULL of burrs. I was filling hay nets for their stalls this evening and had to throw out as much hay as I was putting in. I’m waiting on a response from the guy - I’m half expecting that he is going to ghost me and just not respond. Am I missing something? I get that the hay itself is quality hay but I can’t feed it to horses as is. I have purchased hay before from other suppliers and have never had bad hay like this - the occasional “weedy” bale but nothing worth complaining about. What is an appropriate resolution to ask for? Come pick up the hay and refund? Partial refund? Nothing?

I am wondering if he tried to pull a fast one on me and give me shitty bales. I arranged to pick up the hay myself last week, rented a trailer, and drove an hour to pick up, only for him to show up (late) and say “sorry, I forgot that you were coming and I don’t have a tractor to load the hay today”. He offered to deliver it for free - his idea, not mine. But I wonder if he was irritated about offering and thought he could give the shitty bales “that aren’t near as nice as the others” that he offered to sell me at a discount when we first talked.

[TheHunterKid90]

While you didn’t get what you thought was advertised…a persons view on what “horse quality hay is” varies drastically. I wouldn’t feed my horses what half of horse people do.
Did the price reflect a high quality horse hay? Or was it a deal for the bales?
I think it’s just a lesson learned here. Do all the bales looks like this on the inside? Did you ask to see the inside of a bale when you showed up at his place? Or ask to see it before he left after delivery?

[Milocalwinnings]

@TheHunterKid90

While you didn’t get what you thought was advertised…a persons view on what “horse quality hay is” varies drastically. I wouldn’t feed my horses what half of horse people do.
Did the price reflect a high quality horse hay? Or was it a deal for the bales?
I think it’s just a lesson learned here. Do all the bales looks like this on the inside? Did you ask to see the inside of a bale when you showed up at his place? Or ask to see it before he left after delivery?

If it was just weedy I would agree that it’s a “subjective” definition of horse quality. But who thinks it’s ok to feed horses hay filled with burrs? No, I didn’t see an open bale in person, just photos. I opened two of my four bales and they both were the same. Prices I would say were average for what I’ve seen paid (from friends/barn owner etc). I guess you’re right, lesson learned. Now to figure out how to get rid of four round bales.

I think I will let him know that the quality is not what most people would consider horse quality and in fact could result in costly vet bills. In the future I will definitely ask to see the inside of a bale if that’s common to do? I didn’t realize that was something people asked to see - square bales sure but didn’t know that for round bales. Lesson learned.

[B_and_B]

If a bale is opened, you will probably be paying for the bale that is opened; at least in my experience, and I think it makes sense that would be the case. But, in general hay is ‘you accepted it, you own it’ the recourse is to buy from someone else next time! You may be able to sell the round bales on, with disclosure, as cow/goat hay. I’m up in New England, where the drought really hit the hay market this year, and people are scrambling for hay, which could impact even you in Virginia.
Several years ago I got burned on hay: the first bit of the load was lovely stuff, and then we loaded the majority from the next bay over in the loft (on a reasonable pretext so I didn’t get any bad feelings)…if you think burrs are bad, try roadside trash in quantity. It was still good hay…if you picked all the plastic out!

[Libby2563]

I sympathize. Buying hay is one of my least favorite things because even when you do due diligence you can end up with crap, and customer service is generally nonexistent. You could send the seller photos and ask for replacement bales, but he may ignore you or expect you to pay for them. A refund seems unlikely, even though I agree you did not get what you paid for. Also you may not even want more from him.

If you put it on Craigslist or Facebook at a discount you can probably recoup some of your costs but you’ll need a buyer who can load and transport roundbales. When I got an inedible roundbale in the past I borrowed a friend’s landscaping trailer and took it to a rescue for some cute cows. Thankfully it was in a net or it would have been really difficult to load though. You might need a real desperate person to pick up your open bales for cheap or free.

I’ve kind of given up on roundbales because my horses never eat them well, I find them hard to judge, and if you get a bad one they’re a b!tch to dispose of. The cost savings are tempting but my horses always lose weight so it’s not worth it.

[SusanO]

A good hay dealer will make it right. Not all will but I would give him a call. If he doesn’t replace the bad bales you know to mark him off your list and I would warn others that might buy from him. There are a lot of crappy hay people out there - I know, I have bought hay from them. At this point in the year I am sticking with a very reputable seller. I am paying more but in the grand scheme of things I am buying cheaper this way.

Anybody want to buy 80+ bales of supposedly orchard grass hay that my horses won’t eat??? :mad: It’s still on the trailer. I guess I will be using it as the bottom layer for the hay stack.

[Weezer]

I think you’ll have a hard time getting any money back for the hay. Maybe you can sell it as cattle hay? Not sure if the burrs are a problem for them. I suggest you ask around for a reliable hay source and stick with a single supplier if you can. My guy gives his regulars special treatment and lower prices. I bring him the occasional home-cooked meal and sometimes help him with his cows. In return, he always puts aside the best bales for me. It’s worth putting in extra effort to build a good relationship with your hay supplier! I hope you are able to find a reliable hay source.

[Texarkana]

The appropriate resolution is usually find a new hay guy. Because while a reputable dealer will guarantee their bales, most aren’t that reputable. Unfortunately there is a lot of subjectivity in growing “horse quality hay.”

I hate buying hay with a passion that is unparalleled. The worst part is I’ve learned I have to bite my tongue and play nice with hay sellers, even when they lie through their teeth or sell me overpriced garbage. Burning the bridge is too risky when hay is such a precious commodity. I watch my friends burn their bridges with hay guys only to find themselves begging and pleading for any hay at all come the middle of winter.

[CHT]

My hay guys will take back whatever hay we don’t like. Moldy, full of a tree, whatever. Even if the horses just don’t like the hay from one field. I think it helps if you have a consistent supplier though. I do think there is some “buyer beware” if it was priced below market, but if it was at fair market price, then try to get them to take the hay back.

[Equkelly]

I agree with everyone for the most part but you have nothing to lose from reaching out. If they don’t want to make it right that’s on them but I personally would not be above sharing your experiences on Craigslist, Facebook or wherever else the hay was advertised. Other horse horse owners would appreciate it.

To get rid of it I would try to sell it on Craigslist as cow or goat hay and see if someone will come take it. Also, in the future I would buy at least one sample bale. I always do this whenever I buy hay from someone I don’t know. I just say “oh my horse is really picky so I always have to sample it first to make sure she likes it” that way it doesn’t come across as accusatory that I want to make sure it’s horse quality. My horse isn’t picky but I am!

And agreed…Some hay dealers are gross. I had one this year refuse to text me because talking on the phone was “easier”. When I called him he would not give me a straight answer on pricing. He clearly just wanted to get a feel for what I was willing to spend. I ended the conversation and said “actually I don’t care for the games, so no thanks”.

[exvet]

I’ve been very lucky. I’ve had ethical dealers. If I’ve had a bad load, which I did earlier this summer (rained on hay that molded) they came and picked it up and replaced it with what turned out to be a good load. They’ll take the occasional bad bale and give me credit if I take it to them. While it’s very subjective, they usually don’t give me a hard time. I would contact them and at leas tell them the problem.

[four2farm]

Is there no one local who bales hay? To go an hour is going to make your farm life a long one. If the hay dealer won’t replace the bad hay find someone else. I would be looking closer to home anyway.

I don’t ever ask anyone to split a bale for me to see inside, I just shove my hand in one, grap a handful and see and feel, like burrs, trash, foxtail or Johnson. I want to see seed heads, long stalk and bright goldish green color. I do not want my hay to be bright green because it could be improperly cured, have to much alfalfa or worst of all it is dyed which is rapidly gaining popularity. I also smell it. It should smell fresh and not mold, sour or chemical. When shopping I only get one bale to “test”. Then if the ponies like it I will go back. I have bought hay that looked good enough to eat myself, horses would not touch it. I have bought ugly brown hay that the horses cleaned up every scrid of (my previous hay supplier, I miss him since he retired)

The best advice I have is to ask around at the feed store, ask other horse owners, neighbors and keep shopping until you find the right hay producer. My hay guy is the result of seeing a loaded hay trailer at a gas station. He is a big producer and supplies the local feed stores. He does not advertise. I spent a lot of time " curating" that relationship.

Do I get bad bales? Yes! Do I complain, No. ( I did give back a Tpost last year and he did replace that bale) A bad bale is like getting a bad blueberry in a pint. If most of the blueberries are bad, time to try another brand. If the loss is under 15% I chalk it up to hay waste and throw it out, burn it, whatever. I will advise you not burn bridges. Bad years happen, keep his number, buy elsewhere. In drought / overly wet years , you might be happy to get any hay at all.

Right now you are 50% I would see if he calls back and offers to replace it, if not pick through it and find someone else to try next.

I hate it for you, really, finding hay is one the hardest things we do as self care horse owners.

Congrats on having your babies home!

[SharonA]

I think that unscrupulous hay guys would not give crappy hay if they did not know that their customers were often women who are not comfortable with confrontation.

I would confront the guy, being perfectly civil but firm, and state that the hay is not the quality you were told and you’d like him to, within three days, either refund your money in full or to bring you bales of good-quality hay without burrs or extensive other weeds.

[Texarkana]

@SharonA

I think that unscrupulous hay guys would not give crappy hay if they did not know that their customers were often women who are not comfortable with confrontation.

I would confront the guy, being perfectly civil but firm, and state that the hay is not the quality you were told and you’d like him to, within three days, either refund your money in full or to bring you bales of good-quality hay without burrs or extensive other weeds.

I don’t necessarily think hay suppliers are deliberately trying to pawn off knowingly poor quality hay on pushover women. Sure, this may be true in some instances, but definitely not all. I think the bigger issue is that the definition of “horse quality hay” varies from person to person.

I spent many years trying to buy hay from local farmers. I don’t think I’m an unreasonably picky person, yet I can’t tell you how many times I found myself in disagreements with hay suppliers over things like like, “this hay is moldy,” or, “these weeds aren’t safe for horses.” These conversations often end with the suppliers making statements like, “I’ve been feeding hay like this for XX years and my horses always eat my hay and I’ve never had a problem.” :rolleyes:

These days, I tend to rely on commercial hay suppliers to avoid these situations. I pay a bit more, which kills me, but the improved customer service is worth it.

My good friend is much more confrontational than myself. She strongly believes the customer is always right and demands a high quality product from her hay suppliers. She brags about how she will not let them push her around and how she holds them accountable. Yet she repeatedly ends up damaging relationships and losing service providers. She tells me things like, “I can’t believe my hay guy just stopped returning my calls! Why are they all so unprofessional???” However, she fails to see the connection that her demands are why they get tired of working with her.

[pony_grandma]

Shop early and go look at the field(s) before you commit.

[NancyM]

Is the guy who sold you the hay the farmer who made it? Or a dealer or feed store? If it is the farmer, he should have a good idea about the quality of the hay he has in his barn, IF he knows anything about making hay, or cares (not all do with either of these issues). The quality of the farmer’s hay making skills and the farmer’s morals will be known locally, if he/she has been around for long. Best to enquire from other horse owners and horse hay buyers about who to deal with. If the person who sold you the hay is a dealer (a middle man), did not make the hay personally, a guarantee of quality and satisfaction is more often in place for the buyer. It is best to ask if this guarantee is in place, whether you are dealing with a farmer, or a dealer, prior to making the purchase. This quality guarantee will usually result in a higher price being demanded by a dealer. A farmer may or may not offer this quality or satisfaction guarantee. A dealer or store must take the word of the farmer they have purchased the hay from about the quality of the hay, and does usually guarantee the quality to the buyer, will replace bales that do not satisfy the buyer. With round bales especially, the quality and suitability of the hay for horses is always in question, since one can not open one and immediately know what it is like inside. Round bales for horses require that the environment that the hay is grown in and baled in is extremely dry, to get the moisture down to the levels that the inner core of the bales do not rot or ferment- this is why round bales are often only used for cows, who don’t mind this sort of hay. So round bales are often a bit questionable for horses. Weeds in bales may or may not be evident on the surface of the bales. Weeds may or may not be found throughout the field that the hay was grown on. Moisture in the bales may be measured with a probe, both a hay dealer AND a farmer SHOULD have one of those, and can probe bales for you in your presence for moisture content. Round bales for horses should read around between 11 to 15% moisture content. Above 18% and they are likely to rot or ferment at the core. Horses actually can and do eat fermented hay without adverse reactions, but horse owners often won’t feed it, do not think it is horse quality.

What is or is not “horse quality” hay is always open to interpretation. How much knowledge horse owners and hay dealers have or don’t have is always questionable. How much knowledge farmers have about producing horse hay is questionable. Everyone has an opinion. Some people won’t buy from some dealers and some farmers due to past bad experiences, and some farmers won’t sell to some buyers who they feel are problematical and impossible to satisfy, and always complain.

It is unknown if the person you purchased the hay from can or will stand behind what he has sold you. If you can not reload the bales at your farm to return them, should you return them yourself or should he come to pick them up, this may effect the outcome of your dilemma. You will need a tractor that has the ability to lift the bales to be able to do that. Good luck, at least this is a lesson for you about buying hay. Trust no one. I had hay delivered by hay dealers for 40 years… we now have our own hay farm and make horse quality round bales. So we have been on both sides of the fence.

[Mango20]

Can you tell if this is a problem in the other bales you bought or just that first one? Something like burrs might mean that that bale was made from the hay at the very edge of the field, and maybe the other bales are fine. I’d try to find out without opening the bales before this goes any further. One of my hay guy’s fields was next to some woods, and I always knew when I was unlucky enough to get a bale from the edge, because it would be full of branches and oak leaves.

[HungarianHippo]

Well, it’s worth a try. Don’t go in guns blazing–just call and explain that the hay is not horse-quality due to burrs, and you want to work with him to find a solution. Does he have hay from a different field that you can do an even exchange? If not, tell him you’d like to bring the unopened hay back to him for a refund, what day works for him to accept delivery?

If the refund amount is trivial and not worth your time to get there and back, then I guess just post it on CL at a reduced price with full disclosure.

[HungarianHippo]

Just to redeem everyone’s faith in hay sellers: I had committed to buying 50 squares from a guy who was going to be baling in about a week. He texted while he was mowing that he was seeing a lot of foxtail in this field, so was having second thoughts about selling it for horses. I agreed that I couldn’t take that hay, but thanked him profusely for his honesty.

[pony_grandma]

@Mango20

Can you tell if this is a problem in the other bales you bought or just that first one? Something like burrs might mean that that bale was made from the hay at the very edge of the field, and maybe the other bales are fine. I’d try to find out without opening the bales before this goes any further. One of my hay guy’s fields was next to some woods, and I always knew when I was unlucky enough to get a bale from the edge, because it would be full of branches and oak leaves.

Same thing go see the fields before cut. Low lying areas that may be damp baled, shaded areas where a few bales worth doesn’t dry proper. We have always looked over the fields, we pick up and load following the square baler and the farmers have always let us pass on the heavier wet bales in bad areas. Same with rounds we want to see the fields.

We get bad hay they lose future CASH sales. The ones we buy from now are very honest.