Interesting. Doesn’t the B sample have to be tested at another lab? If so, what happens if only THIS lab can detect it? Houston, we have a problem.
[QUOTE=DMK;3462595]
Interesting. Doesn’t the B sample have to be tested at another lab? If so, what happens if only THIS lab can detect it? Houston, we have a problem.[/QUOTE]
Capsaicin is not hard to test. I don’t know where that info came from.
I think the bigger issue is that they did not permit the riders who were implicated to ride in the individual competition, yet they do not have the results of testing on the B samples. It is not unheard of for riders to be cleared after the B sample is tested, or for other reasons, but no one can give them back the opportunity to ride in the individual competition.
[QUOTE=DMK;3462595]
Interesting. Doesn’t the B sample have to be tested at another lab? If so, what happens if only THIS lab can detect it? Houston, we have a problem.[/QUOTE]
Of course you could just have the B-Sample shipped via DHL and stolen enroute. Then you have a ‘luck of the Irish’ problem 
[QUOTE=M. O’Connor;3462580]
Having cooked w/hot peppers, I can tell you from personal experience that it doesn’t take much on one’s fingers to create a burning sensation on sensitive skin (ie if you slice peppers and subsequently scratch your face/eye/wipe your hand across your lips).[/QUOTE]
Totally agree, and have you ever gotten some in your eye? Oh my GOD!
But we’re not talking bare sensitive skin of your hand from slicing hot peppers (it’s the seeds with the kick in them)-- we’re talking applying some sort of paste to a horse’s legs. There’s way less sensitivity and more of a fur barrier in place there. Not to mention you’d really have to be slathering it on-- I bet when you were cutting peppers it took a while before you actually felt anything-- and even then it was somewhat of a mild sting. To chemically rap a horse, you’d want something that really stung.
I am not doubting pepper COULD could be used to do that, but it’d be a pretty unwieldy/obvious way to do it-- and I tend to think people who want to cheat are looking for the quick/subtle way to do it.
sabotaging competitors
to whomever said perhaps someone besides the horse’s competitor could have sabotaged the horse:
I think that’s very unlikely. usually at big international competitions there is ALWAYS someone from the rider’s team with the horse. grooms even sleep in the barn with them. would be pretty hard (though I guess not impossible…) to get to the horses and dose them with something.
snork Glimmer, don’t think that option didn’t cross my mind!
YL - I did wonder about that, but I assumed (dangerous of me, I know) that olympic rules were somewhat settled as it relates to testing positive in a qualifying round (which is what the team finals were for the ind finals) and then continuing on to a subsequent round. However I freely admit that just because that should NOT be a new scenario in the Olympic venue, it doesn’t mean there are actually rules in place and that they have withstood litigation!
I just got the worst mental visual of someone running by a horse in the warmup ring, dumping a bucket of bigeloil on it, then running away cackling madly.
I need more sleep.
Don’t know if this has been posted but on the Irish news tonight it stated Lantinus gets Equi Block on his back to help loosen him up. He has done for a while or so stated. They didn’t know they were doing anything wrong. That’s always the same story though. I use to use Equiblock on my neck when I was galloping. It will light you up that’s for sure!
Terri
[QUOTE=M. O’Connor;3462580]
Having cooked w/hot peppers, I can tell you from personal experience that it doesn’t take much on one’s fingers to create a burning sensation on sensitive skin (ie if you slice peppers and subsequently scratch your face/eye/wipe your hand across your lips).[/QUOTE]
The classic way for males to discover the effects of capsaicin is to cut up hot peppers, get it all over your hands (where you feel nothing) and then, go to the bathroom.
Women tend to touch their eyes first.
I wear rubber gloves when I handle them. Too easy to get under your fingernails.
But on normal, unbroken skin, as you’d have on jumper legs, it does not have that effect.
It sounds to me like perhaps the Hong Kong lab is more sensitive than the european labs. And I wonder how time-sensitive it is, since the horse was tested by the Hong Kong lab upon arrival.
If it is something always used, you would think a positive test would have happened before now.
I am not sure why competitors at the top continue to use products without KNOWING that they have something questionable in it. I know when I was competing at the low levels, I was SO careful about any substance. We used EPF-5 as a brace, but NEVER for weeks before a show.
Are they just so casual about competing that they don’t read new rules, to know about substances, equipment, etc?
Yup! I found out about Wrap Last that way. :eek: :lol:
[QUOTE=Glimmerglass;3462650]
Of course you could just have the B-Sample shipped via DHL and stolen enroute. Then you have a ‘luck of the Irish’ problem :D[/QUOTE]
Sadly DHL isn’t known for it’s reliability…no matter what they’re shipping. 
Someone please correct me if I am wrong but I would suspect that it was not being used as a pain reliever. Having used some pain relievers myself (when not competing) with capsaicin in them I can tell you that the first few times you use it it BURNS!!! I learnt that lesson the hard way and always check to see if it is a content as I will never use it again because of that fact. I would suspect that it was being used to produce a similar result as plastic chips in boots etc…
you are right…it especially burns when you get heated up. I use it on my back now and again and if I work up a sweat I feel like I am on fire.:eek:
This stuff makes me sick. There is no way that they used it as a painkiller. We all know what kind of abuses go on with showjumpres. I mean look at all those horsess they used to kill. The only reason they did it was to hurt them. It’s as bad as what they do to gaited horses
Was Maclean Ward tested? [edit]
bogey, keep reading - notwithstanding that effect, it IS used as a topical pain killer… Uh, they even have commercials for a topical arthritis cream for humans on all the time. I know, they are painful to tivo through. So painful I almost need a topical pain killer. Oh wait…
[quote]Quote:
Someone please correct me if I am wrong but I would suspect that it was not being used as a pain reliever. Having used some pain relievers myself (when not competing) with capsaicin in them I can tell you that the first few times you use it it BURNS!!! I learnt that lesson the hard way and always check to see if it is a content as I will never use it again because of that fact. I would suspect that it was being used to produce a similar result as plastic chips in boots etc…
you are right…it especially burns when you get heated up. I use it on my back now and again and if I work up a sweat I feel like I am on fire.
[/quote]
Capsaicin can confusingly have both properties. It burns to a certain point, and then the nerves are overwhelmed and stop sending pain signals (all the neurotransmitter Substance P is depleted). It is also a substance you “get used to” which is why some people can cheerfully munch on a habanero pepper and others would be in intense pain.
The effects are temporary and reverse completely at normal levels.
http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/phytochemicals/pages/capsaicin.html
Capsaicin has been found to possess several beneficial health qualities. It has antibacterial properties, which may help people with conditions such as stomach ulcers, rather than injuring them further as doctors have traditionally thought. It’s also a general digestive aid, increasing secretions of saliva and gastric juices, and promoting intestinal activity. In studies with animals, cancer researchers have found that capsaicin keeps certain carcinogens from binding to DNA, giving it merit as a potential anti-cancer drug.
Currently, the best-known medical use for capsaicin is as a topical painkiller, fighting fire with fire as it were. The very quality that causes the burning sensation also causes nerve endings to release mediators, chemical substances that inform the brain about pain or inflammation. When applied directly to an area that is causing pain, capsaicin empties the stores of inflammatory mediators from the nerve endings, so they can no longer transmit pain signals to the brain. Pepper creams with capsaicin have been developed and are being used as painkillers for conditions such as herpes (shingles), arthritis, and neuralgia.
Did they test Macleen Ward?
I asked this but nobody answers. Did they drugtest Macleen’s horse? [edit]I heard from a friend at a horseshow that there are ltos of bad things that happen when people aren’t looking and everybody drugs their horses.
Is this stuff like what they use on the Tenesee horses? I bet it hurts them so much. I am very sad to be an AMerican today.
my small level of experience
back when I had disc problems I used it (equi-block or similar product - it’s been a while) on my back (it felt soothing almost immediately) and it really helped with both pain and stiffness (always wondered how a topical could help with a problem of the spinal discs)
one day I applied it when I was not hurting and man did that smart
With some searching a la Google, I found some research that suggests that capsaicin cream applied to arthritic joints might not only be producing pain relief (because it binds/depletes Substance P, which transmits pain to the brain) but also may actually reduce damage to the joint, because Substance P in synovial fluid is implicated in itself creating more cartilage damage. I could not definitively verify that anyone has studied the question of whether a topical cream depletes the Substance P that is actually inside the joint fluid.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/500859
http://www.jbjs.org.uk/cgi/reprint/79-B/1/114.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18622837
I wish they would release the concentrations of banned substances showing up in tests. It would stop a lot of speculation.
As to whether it was a genuine innocent mistake (e.g. hoof packing getting into broken skin) or something more sinister, I lean towards the former. There are so many easy ways it could happen. And the latter involves some pretty convoluted process that wouldn’t seem to give much benefit in exchange for the risk.
Until now, I didn’t know it was in bigleoil either. Not sure how I’m supposed to know “Capsicum Tincture” is!
