What Is "Disobedience"?

[millerra]

Interesting discussion. Clearly horses vary on their willingness to partner w/ their human.

I don’t consider my following description of a beloved horse to be disobediences nor did I punish him for it - he was just super smart and quite the character. I think they are smarter than many give them credit for.

He could easily be lead into a stall by an experienced handler. Newby - NOPE - slam on the brakes and throw his head in the air. If the person would even start to move towards swinging the rope at him, he’d back up and that was it. They’d stand there hopelessly pulling on a backing horse and I swear he was laughing.

If he found an object scary, he’d stop. If you’d press him, you could be sure there would be no way in hell you’d get him near the object. Drop the reins, and let him work on it - he’d walk on over and put his nose on it. He was very clear in the way he was that he thought humans were largely stupid and he’d determine if he thought something was scary or worth doing. I wouldn’t call it disobedient; he just thought he knew better.

He was very smart. When he and my mare had a paddock next to cows, he literally would move the flakes of hay to the fence next to the cows. He’d then have the hay to himself, because she was scared of cows and wouldn’t go near.

For what it’s worth he was a good eventer and a good dressage horse.

[OverandOnward]

@millerra

He was very clear in the way he was that he thought humans were largely stupid and he’d determine if he thought something was scary or worth doing. I wouldn’t call it disobedient; he just thought he knew better.

I’m kind of ok with this. If you spend the time to let them convince themselves, you can end up with a solid self-motivating performer.

They have to evolve to trust you, though. Then they come around a corner and there is something new, and you say “it’s ok, we’re good here”, then they say “yep I’m on it” and stay forward and totally confident to master that thing. That takes time to work through.

Or … push them, and they turn out to be the worst and most recalcitrant stopper/balker ever.

[OverandOnward]

@millerra

He was very smart. When he and my mare had a paddock next to cows, he literally would move the flakes of hay to the fence next to the cows. He’d then have the hay to himself, because she was scared of cows and wouldn’t go near.

hahahahaha …

I have always had a two-horse side-by-side trailer (no angle stalls). My last trailer did not have a separating grid between their heads – that will never be the case again!

My horse at the time knew that all things belonged to him. Since he was terrible about sharing hay that was hung between the horses, and was constantly fussing with the other horse over it, I separated the hay and hung up two hay bags, one on the trailer wall on his side wall, and one the other horse’s side.

My horse would reach underneath the other horse’s neck and eat the other horse’s hay.* After thoroughly intimidating the other horse to allow him to do it. The other horse knew that he would not be in trouble if he allowed this, but oh lordy if he tried to object. Once the other horse’s hay was eaten (by both of them) my horse would start on his own hay, on his side, which of course he never shared.

Somehow my friends tended to find other rides for their horses to clinics, shows & outings.

Until a friend’s mare started riding with us. My gelding fell deeply in love with this mare, and she with him. They were so attached. He shared a grain bucket with her and let her eat first. She had first pick of everything, including hay. He was a perfect gentleman with her. It was rather sad that they lived in different locations and didn’t see each other that often.

*He had the reach because I allow enough lead so that they can comfortably lower their heads. He was good at making the halter slide to give him more reach.

[Curly_Feather]

@OverandOnward

I know a 16.1hh warmblood mare with a big warmblood body. She understands what her talented-but-small 10-year-old rider is asking. She doesn’t exactly rebel. She just delays responding for 20-30 seconds (half-trip around a small arena) and then does it half-heartedly.

My observation: The mare isn’t defying or evading the rider. The mare isn’t focusing on the rider at all. It is a horse’s instinct to be easily distractable. To be alert to everything all around. This small rider does not have the mare’s attention. The mare understands the aids but kind of says “I’m looking at something else right now, I’ll get back to you on that”.

This is my gelding Sometimes when my instructor asks, “how did your ride go?”, my only answer is that I was not the most interesting thing happening to him at the time…

[OverandOnward]

@Curly_Feather

my only answer is that I was not the most interesting thing happening to him at the time…

I am stealing that!

Happy news – the 10-year-old rider is developing some attitude of her own. This evening she claimed the big mare’s attention and held onto it. And had an awesome ride!