What is everyone including in PPE's these days?

[Dr_Doolittle]

A student is having a horse vetted tomorrow (with Piedmont in VA), and though she plans to do the usual stuff: flexions, palpations, teeth checked (this horse is supposed to be 7 but they don’t know for sure, so); heart and lungs, eyes, hoof testers, lameness exam, check suspensories, etc.

Horse is a great-brained 15’1" QH cross with low mileage - has done some LL eventing, basic dressage, trails, and has been a lesson horse for kids - he is very easy going and hacks out like a pro - and when he’s ridden by more experienced adults he is quite fancy (IOW total package!) He has a longish back which was nice and soft to palpation despite the fact that since he’s one of many horses in the barn, he doesn’t have a “dedicated saddle”; the one they use fits “okay” - and great feet - he has always been barefoot and walks over gravel with zero issue! His neck ties in a wee bit low but he is able to raise his withers and go nicely on the bit with a good forward rhythm. The buyer hasn’t jumped in quite some time, but this horse has a lovely jump!, so I will probably be doing some LL competitions with him (with the plan for her to get back into jumping at the baby level.) She would like to hunt 2nd or 3rd field with him, eventually.

Does anyone do neck and back rads on a non-OTTB? Price is in the low-5 figures, and her hope is that this will be her “forever horse” (she’s 50.)

Feedback appreciated, TIA!

[Simkie]

I always include a neuro exam, after having a horse with neuro issues. If in an area with Lyme, I’d consider running a Lyme titer, if only for a baseline value.

[Dr_Doolittle]

Yes, a basic neuro exam is a good idea (and I’m thinking he will probably do that as a matter of course); interesting thought about the Lyme.

[knic]

I’ve had to specifically ask some vets to do a basic neuro as part of ppe.

[Dr_Doolittle]

I will ask the vet - but he is SO thorough that he may do it anyway!

[Simkie]

I agree–while it’s been awhile since I’ve done a PPE, it’s always been a special request & a separate line item on the bill. Great if the vet includes it, but def not something I’d want to miss!

[Tha_Ridge]

A basic neuro exam (tail tone, neck flexion, spin, backing) is included at a standard PPE around here in the NE. I’ve sold four horses in the past three months (ranging from mid-4 figures to low-5 figures to mid-5 figures), and every single buyer shot back and neck rads. They were often add-ons to an otherwise very, very basic set.

I personally don’t vet anything below $10k or so, but I’m buying for resale and recognize that that is not a risk to take for a buyer buying their forever horse. For anything I’m importing for resell, I reshoot any old X-rays and add any missing films/views.

[NaturallyHappy]

Pull blood. You never know…

[Dr_Doolittle]

I believe this is also standard for this vet practice. Going back-and-forth about back and neck rads – how much did that run you? (Figuring prices are probably pretty similar where you are.)

[Tha_Ridge]

@Dr_Doolittle

Going back-and-forth about back and neck rads – how much did that run you? (Figuring prices are probably pretty similar where you are.)

Honestly, I’ve never shot back and neck here in the U.S.—only in Europe, where my last entire PPE, including blood, was $600, LOL. I have a PPE “menu” from a vet we use here, though (maybe a couple of years old), and it was $48/view with a standard neck “set” consisting of six views, so $288. The neck was also four to six views.

[Dr_Doolittle]

That’s interesting - a “menu” makes sense! We will have to see what they charge for all of this and decide what to do.

$600!?!!

[SBrentnall]

I do a lot, all based on problems with previous horses that could have been prevented had I known at the PPE.

• Full back, neck and leg x-rays
• Bloodwork
• Flexions
• Neuro exam

I end up spending a lot on the PPE, but not nearly as much as I’ve spent trying to fix the issues that the PPE would illuminate.

[beau159]

@Dr_Doolittle

That’s interesting - a “menu” makes sense! We will have to see what they charge for all of this and decide what to do.

$600!?!!

I don’t buy horses often, nor expensive ones, but I did two years ago and I think my vet bill for the PPE was close to $600.

But I chose to do some extra xrays of the hocks, stifles, check for OCD lesions, etc and the price of multiple xrays add up.

The thing with back xrays is that there can be some minor changes but it might not be clinical. Of course, it’s up to the client to decide what they want done and how much they want to spend, but if the lameness eval doesn’t seem to show any problems in the neck or back, then it’s really up to the client how much they want to “dig” or just focus on what the lameness eval shows.

My items I’m kinda anal about would be front feet and hocks, so if I were to arbitrarily decide “just to check” by doing xrays, those are my two things.

[Dr_Doolittle]

Yes, these are my exact thoughts.

Unless you are doing only basic stuff (flexions, heart/lungs/eyes; x-rays of hocks and front feet, etc.), $600 is cheap - at least for around here.

[fordtraktor]

I do full X rays. On a QH make sure you do hooves looking for navicular and founder rotation.

I don’t usually do the back but am adding it to my list now based on some friends’ nightmare experiences.

My last PPE cost $3k, almost half what I spent on the horse. Worth it!

[Dr_Doolittle]

Yeah - that’s more in the ballpark of what I suspect she’ll have to pay, especially if she opts for back rads. And yes, will x-ray the feet.

He has excellent feet and has always been barefoot

[Amy3996]

In addition to the usual wellness exam/flexions, we did rads of front feet and hocks. Also requested a baseline Lyme titer and a basic neuro exam. Ran about $1K in the Ocala area.

In hindsight, I would’ve done all rads of all four feet.

[fordtraktor]

Love that! It’s always good to have a baseline esp on a breed prone to those issues. He sounds absolutely lovely, the kind of horse most people SHOULD buy! I have his twin in mare form, and won’t sell her because they are too hard to find! I have her leased to my in-house trainer.

Love a good QH. Hope it works out!

[IPEsq]

Basic neuro exam has been a part of the usual PPE clinical for me, but always good to confirm. If the clinical is good, I shoot all 4 feet and ankles, plus navicular skyline of fronts, hocks, stifles, neck, and back. I don’t usually do hoof testers unless it seems warranted (like my one horse who decided to spring a shoe and get an abscess on the day before the PPE….and somehow I bought him anyway).

[athelas]

I didn’t PPE my current guy as he was under 3k. After seeing some friends and fellow equestrians have nothing but heartbreak after heartbreak, if I were buying him again I would absolutely PPE. He’s got a calcification of some flavor on one of his rear pasterns that hasn’t ever given us any issues so I imagine he probably gave himself a good thwack in his driving shoes as a kiddo. One day I’ll get around to having it xrayed, if only to satisfy the curiousity.

I would do: neck and back xrays, neuro exam, standard hoof & leg xrays (esp to check for NPA), pull blood, and then the basics.