[QUOTE=Commander Cody;6484941]
From the web site:
Both of our August Horse Shows, August 16 - 19 and August 22 - 26, are cancelled due to lack of entries.
Let’s hope that they haven’t overestimated the demand for a new, state of the art facility.[/QUOTE]
Disappointing!
Well… not that I’ve heard, as such.
BUT, I think this is a bit of a myth. I mean, the BNT in my area, Scott Stewart, Ann Kursinki, Chapots, Barisone, Betsy Steiner, Tucker Johnson, blah, blah, blah they don’t like to pay folks much $$. There is no ‘moving up’ in the horse industry for most folks.
The only thing you can really do is ‘move out’ on your own. Build your own business. Work for yourself.
In fact, it is my firm belief that having BNT credentials on your resume is a negative. Unless you can transition to training/showing/selling/something else on your own. But if you are a groom/support personnel, employers do not want someone who is so qualified they will want more than the standard, basic, minimal, compensation.
I know some people who have lucked out and found work with very wealthy families who are willing to pay top dollar + some nice perks (you get to take your horses around the show circuit too!! as part of your pay + good salary + good housing + health insurance:)) in order to get loyal, long term employees. But this is very, very rare.
Really, if you think you may run your own business (braiding, selling, teaching, training) then, yes, there should be every reason that ‘putting in your time’ at a BNT facility is going to help you. (Though I really think it would be 95% the contacts/impressions/etc you make on your own, while in the environment.)
BUT, for most folks, that is an aspiration that never comes anywhere close to happening. For most, I don’t think the ‘time you put in’ really translates into advancement potential. That is the ‘carrot’ that is used to string people along. But after some time at a place like the OP mentioned, most folks get it figured out that they are not going to get anything out of the work other than, barely, subsistence level survival.
Much like employment at Walmart, McDonalds, etc. + the added benefit of serious physical risk !
I think it all depends what the person is looking for. In general, an assistant trainer for a BNT will get paid at basically minimum wage or not far from it while working LONG hours and being on the road doing grueling work, etc. BUT there is a perk for many that comes in the form of “free” housing, board for a horse, lessons, etc. which are things the rest of us non-talented, definitely amateur types pay a lot of money for. Working for a BNT can be a great opportunity but it is not as glamorous as some people might imagine and it is undoubtedly HARD work. A prospective employee might envision time spent mostly in the show ring on amazing sale horses, whereas in reality more time might be spent making feed, packing trunks, organizing schedules, taking orders, etc. and hacking a client’s children’s hunter for 20min before she goes into the show ring might be the highlight of the riding for that day while the BNT gets to do most of the showing on clients’ and sale horses. I myself have never gone this route as I am not talented enough to be a pro, but several friends through the years have tried this and most found it exhausting and eventually burned out. It is generally easier for young, highly energetic types who can devote all their time to being a part of that world. Many use the assistant trainer jobs with BNTs as a springboard to start their own business. A person needs to go into a job like this knowing that it won’t be pretty and they won’t be paid well and, unfortunately, that they are expendable if they don’t want to do the work that’s asked, even if it’s a far cry from what they envisioned. I really don’t think it’s personal on the part of the BNTs, I just think it’s a fast paced business that is sink or swim and there isn’t time for much emotion.
Tangent… but if you cancel a show… what happens vis-a-vis the mileage rule? Someone else can take the dates? Does it prevent you from “holding” the dates for the following year???
[QUOTE=westie55;6486942]
I think it all depends what the person is looking for. In general, an assistant trainer for a BNT will get paid at basically minimum wage or not far from it while working LONG hours and being on the road doing grueling work, etc.
There are also the issues of dealing with unethical behavior as well. No one who gets caught ‘doping’ horses or other such does so in a vacuum. Their staff’s have to deal with these things. And they have to deal with looking the other way on all sorts of issues…
BUT there is a perk for many that comes in the form of “free” housing,
They only house people for ‘free’ because it is cheaper (long term) than paying people enough to rent their own housing. Also, there is then very little way for employees to escape. Ever tried taking a day ‘off’ on a farm? Very often, you have to get off the farm if you want to rest. And unless you have a friends’ house you can stay at, that will likely cost you $ to do whatever, just so you have an excuse of some sort to get off the property. Otherwise, if you are on the property, you are not really ‘off.’ You are just waiting around until someone calls you in.
board for a horse, lessons, etc. Not so much. Lessons are very often not given. And ‘board’ at the farm is only for at the farm. If you work for a BNT, very few of them are going to incur the cost of an employee bringing a horse to Saugerties, WEF, etc.
which are things the rest of us non-talented, definitely amateur types pay a lot of money for. Working for a BNT can be a great opportunity but it is not as glamorous as some people might imagine and it is undoubtedly HARD work. A prospective employee might envision time spent mostly in the show ring on amazing sale horses, whereas in reality more time might be spent making feed, packing trunks, organizing schedules, taking orders, etc. and hacking a client’s children’s hunter for 20min before she goes into the show ring might be the highlight of the riding for that day while the BNT gets to do most of the showing on clients’ and sale horses. I myself have never gone this route as I am not talented enough to be a pro, but several friends through the years have tried this and most found it exhausting and eventually burned out. It is generally easier for young, highly energetic types who can devote all their time to being a part of that world. Many use the assistant trainer jobs with BNTs as a springboard to start their own business. A person needs to go into a job like this knowing that it won’t be pretty and they won’t be paid well and, unfortunately, that they are expendable if they don’t want to do the work that’s asked, even if it’s a far cry from what they envisioned. I really don’t think it’s personal on the part of the BNTs, I just think it’s a fast paced business that is sink or swim and there isn’t time for much emotion.[/QUOTE]
I don’t disagree with most of the above. BUT, I do think that many people with successful horse businesses treat employees badly just because they can.
I have worked for farm owners with corporate back grounds, and the difference is amazing. They are educated, reasonable, diplomatic, do things ‘on the books’ and the difference in their business education makes doing the same old farm work profoundly different. They are trained (and practiced) to view staff as an asset and an investment, not an impediment and nuisance.
There is much talk about certifying instructors for teaching and training. But what the horse industry really needs is to certify horse business owners in business.
If you don’t know Andrew…He seems like a nice guy
If you know him…[edit]…And the wife? You got it…[edit].
Wont go into details…lets just say in order for him to buy or sell a horse, he has to leave the country…no one here will deal with him.
However…He DOES run a lovely horseshow.
Stay far away. Housing is horrible. Pay is worse. Hours are ridiculous. He treats the clients terribly and [edit] And there’s no real education. Even seeing Andrew in the barn is akin to seeing a goat tap dance…he just isn’t interested. So you have to be ok with training with Sarah Wayda and thats a whole other can of worms. PM me and I can give you more details. I worked there within the last 12 months.
Someone else take the dates??? Oh heavens no. All it does is keep anybody else from getting those dates…you HAVE to have the show every few years to keep the dates blocked from anybody else. But you may sit on the dates and cancel the show at whim.
Never said he was nice to work for, most of them that will hire without alot of heavy AA experience aren’t either. Just said if you can stand it, it is a start-he actually will give a reference. Or at least has recently for somebody who lasted 6 months applying at a somewhat better AA barn. And he does still sell alot of horses that seem to work out. Not my first choice but…
When I lived in Reno and lessoned with Julie Winkel, one day she looked tired at the 3:00 pm lesson, because she had spent the day cleaning stalls when her help did not return after their day off.
Sounds normal to me - I do “anything that needs doing” at my place, for no pay either.
Yes, if you are planning on running or owning your own business in the upper ends of the horse industry, you might do well to think like a very successful trainer I know who did work for several BNTs. He said that he considered this time in his life to be a free/subsidized college-level education in the industry, and mowing the lawn or babysitting was part of his working off the tuition. He later did well on his own from the get-go.
If you just want a job in the horse industry with respect and good pay, working for someone else, without a vet tech or ag business degree, you are going to have to look long and hard.
The horse business is hard work.
The answer to this question is really quite simple. Andrew works closely with a groom training program that brings college age people with experience to the US for 1 year on J-1 visas. He is always looking for people, as these people are short term employees. Andrew gives employment opportunities to people 20-25 years old. This is a very unsettled time in most people’s lives so it can be very transient. Many college riding program graduates looking for a start in the horse business get a chance at places like Hunter Farms. Unfortunately many underestimate their value, skill set, and the amount of plain hard work the horse business is. Many move on (or are asked to move on) when they realize the job is a job and not just an opportunity to ride and show.
Evidently Andrew has somebody new managing social media. LOL
[QUOTE=equisusan;7336402]
Evidently Andrew has somebody new managing social media. LOL[/QUOTE]
I see the thread got a healthy haircut as well. Someone must have whined at the mods. The funny thing is I don’t remember anything bad being said.
All the ads are still up for help btw. He sure does go through a lot of “20 to 25 year old girls at very transient phases of their lives”
Reaching out and curious
I have been reading this thread because I saw the ads on y & g and was considering applying but now I am very apprehensive.
Please feel free to PM me…
Thank You,
Epona66
[QUOTE=Isabeau Z Solace;6480287]
Well… Andrew runs one of the most successful businesses in my area. Even people who are not his biggest fans go to his shows. I have shown there as well.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=59648417804&set=a.59647957804.82877.536672804&type=3
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=59648497804&set=a.59647957804.82877.536672804&type=3
He has started a lot of people riding, who have then gone on to move pretty high up the levels.
But… he is very difficult to work for. People often don’t last long. I have interviewed with him for an instructor position, but my style is really not a fit for his business. I have know people who worked for him for a while, in different positions, but then left.
What I was told (in other words, hearsay…) is that no matter what your position, you will be tagged to fulfill whatever role needs fulfilling. Now some folks can be flexible, but, apparently, more is asked for than most people can give (or at least give for very long)…
What can you say? The guy runs a really successful business. But, like a lot of successful business owners, employees are disposable. If you don’t know much about how an AA show barn runs, and you want to learn, then a year at Hunter Farms would be a good education.
But I am aware of no one who has lasted there for a long time. For that matter Chado Farms, Market Street, and plenty of the other BNT farms in this area don’t really prioritize employee retainment. They do what they do, pay what they pay, and if you want to hang around and work then fine, if you don’t, then don’t let the door hit your butt on the way out.
I can’t claim to be the most personable person on the planet myself, so I’m hardly one to critique anyone else’s charm or leadership skill set !![/QUOTE]
Epona: If you are looking for jobs, IMO this is what you need to do:
Write down your long term goals: do you want to go pro? Use the position to gain riding and training time on nice horses or some other long term goal?
Where are you riding now and what level do you want to be at in 1, 3, or 5 years?
What do you hope to gain over the next year?
List the features you would want in a position and what things would be deal breakers.
Then look around at the advertisements, talk with trainers you work with now (if you have a trainer) and network^3. Create a long list of possible opportunities. Then look at the answers to the above questions and create a short list of more serious options.
Look at reputation and turnover before deciding.
I personally would not advise going into any kind of WS position unless you can get a contract or at least something in writing as to what work you will do and what you will be receiving. Also look at who else has worked there and what they have learned and gone on to do afterwards. That alone may tell you who to avoid.
Hello,
I am not sure if you will get this. I am thinking of applying for a Show Manager position. After reading the above thread…I am thinking it may not be a good idea. Can you shed any light?
From what I can tell…there has been a lot of turnover at that farm and jobs are always on Y & G. Soooooo I think that could be a flag
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
