You said ANY score below the winning score was a poor one. It could be an 80%, and it’s still a poor score.
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And, in the spirit of this thread -
The farm I used to ride with in Indiana has nearly exclusively draft crosses, from training all the way through PSG/Int. They do VERY well at recognized shows on horses that are not out-and-out fancy the way you think of the “leg flingers”.
They have riders in all divisions. Open, Am, Jr. They consistently place well, or more or less clean up.
So, at least in this area, I’d say the problem being complained about does not exist. Correct riding trumps the mega fancy movers.
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And the winning score could be a 61%.
Y’all just like to argue. The point is that bickering like this is what takes the joy out of showing…so why show? I can spend $$$$ with imported trainers and get more bang for the buck.
Good luck at your next show.
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How did we go from “I took my staliyun to a show once and got such a bad score it MUST have been bad judging”
to “If you ain’t first, yer last”
to “arguing on COTH is why I don’t show anymore”?
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Like to use insulting language? Where did I say “If you ain’t first, yer last”???
Or “arguing on COTH is why I don’t show anymore”
To be perfectly clear…I don’t show any more because I do not have a horse that is competitive in today’s world. So I prefer to spend my money taking lessons to become a better trainer of less-than-perfect horses.
I rest my case.
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An 18.2 shire X got a 68% in the training level championships at regionals. It was a huge class but still a very good score and it beat many purpose-bred imports by a fair # of percentage points.
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I think this is the post that has many of us saying “Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot?”
These are the top 5 Grand Prix results from the European Dressage Championships held a couple of months ago. Would you say that every competitor except Jessica von Bredow-Werndl earned a poor score?
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Many of the posts here mention the expense of showing. It’s just not financially feasible any more,
and/or the value is no longer there.
Not sure if the expense of going to the USDF convention would be a welcome expenditure, when people say they can’t afford to go to horse shows. 
.
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It was a hypothetical scenario.
I accept the way things are, and that they aren’t likely to change. I don’t think most people are buying ribbons or medals on made horses, I think they are just buying the type of horse that starts with an advantage in scoring. Some are buying that + training and then learning how to ride it. I’m happy for those people, most of them try pretty darn hard. It’s not their fault I’m addicted to buying misfits.
I think the wider inconsistencies across the pool of judges make it hard to use ‘improving scores’ as a benchmark for success, though. Netg’s posts have gone into that pretty well.
As to the title topic, I do think that the limitation of potential success placed on average-type horses by the current scoring system limits the participation of current riders, and serves to discourage newcomers to the sport that already own horses. JMO though. I also think that dressage is pretty well set up to switch to the Danish ribbon system.
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I think this is well said.
When we couple this with the rising costs of horses in general, I’m not surprised if folks are reporting a decline in participation in recognized dressage shows. Or shows in general.
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I accept the way things are, and that they aren’t likely to change. I don’t think most people are buying ribbons or medals on made horses, I think they are just buying the type of horse that starts with an advantage in scoring. Some are buying that + training and then learning how to ride it. I’m happy for those people, most of them try pretty darn hard. It’s not their fault I’m addicted to buying misfits.
Agreed! No one is buying ribbon. If you can afford that entire package, go for it!
The difference is here:
As to the title topic, I do think that the limitation of potential success placed on average-type horses by the current scoring system limits the participation of current riders, and serves to discourage newcomers to the sport that already own horses. JMO though. I also think that dressage is pretty well set up to switch to the Danish ribbon system.
If I have a non-purpose bred/average moving horse, but am a capable, strong rider, why on earth would I spend hundreds to thousands of dollars memberships and fees on a weekend to go to a place feeling like we don’t belong in the sea of talented horses, trainers/ show teams, to ride in front a judge who may think we are an unfortunate pair/ don’t belong (and if even if they didn’t have that personal feeling could not reward us with scores because they are required to score us with gaits in mind)? You know you have a ceiling for your score where the others do not. Doesn’t really make one feel motivated to spend one’s resources on that kind of experience.
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So looking at the scores from “our” regional finals is quite interesting. (Looking at the AAs here.)
At training and first the top scores (champion and reserve) were in the 70 to 75 range. Well deserved scores as lovely, top quality movers being very well ridden in simple tests. The rest of the pack were mostly in the 65 and below range, with quite a few in the 59/60 range.
At second, there was a huge gulf between the champion in the 70s and the reserve champion with a 63. The rest following along.
Once you get to third champ was a 67, rest of the contenders were in the 63 to 66 range, and a few who didn’t have good days.
Fourth level was very similar.
FEI levels, there were a couple of PSG rides in the mid 60s, and I1 rides were low scores. There were no AA GP rides.
So my observations are that with the exception of the top 5 or 6 horses at the show, who were head-turningly lovely and ridden by either very exceptional or very experienced riders, the rest of the pack are pretty tightly bunched in the 60 to 65 range with quite a few people having bad days and scoring below that level.
This is at Regional Championships, I should reiterate. It should be representative of the better horses and riders in the region.
We are a very big region, stretching from the Canadian border to the Mexican border, with a huge range of top level trainers and riders with plenty of discretionary income.
So my feeling looking at this is that if you are Joe Blow climbing the levels for the first time on your nice-enough horse, getting a 60 at a recognized horse show is very far from a head-hanging disgrace. And at many shows in our region that will still get you in the ribbons, especially if you are out of training level. Set yourself realistic expectations and remember that this is a learning experience.
I do think that the judging at the moment is more exacting than it was 10 or 15 years ago. But I think the quality of horses and riders has improved significantly so on the whole the scores are quite similar.
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Agree 100%. It’s kind of what I’ve been saying all along.
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Agree. I’m pretty long in the tooth and have “been around” dressage for a long, long time, and I well remember the times before the WB influx, when everyone was riding TBs, QH, Saddlebreds, Arabians, Appaloosas, Morgans, Percherons, Welsh Ponies, etc. (or crosses). We thought 62% was a lofty goal, and 65% was a score to be dreamed about. Nowadays, the goal is 70% or even 75%+ - depending on where one is in their dressage journey, and I do think the availability of purpose-bred horses has helped contribute to that, as well as greater access to training opportunities (a larger population of coaches and trainers, more clinics, ride-a-tests, more shows, and even online events where one can better develop their eye).
And yes, “off-breed” enthusiasts will scoff at the thought of purpose-bred horses being responsible for rising scores, but there is no doubt that many a developing dressage rider has been helped along on their journey by a nicely bred horse with the right interior and exterior qualities for the job. This can be especially true if the horse is a schoolmaster-type who received a good education from someone who knew what they were doing. In recent decades, most such horses have been European-bred warmbloods who were started and maybe even competed by riders trained from childhood in dressage - so yeah, the horses themselves are helping to contribute to the rise in scores.
And this is certainly not to say that an “off-breed” can’t be successful in dressage - and esp. at the lower levels - but rather to emphasize that “the right tool for the job” generally makes the job easier. Do Quarter Horses belong in dressage? Heck, why not, if that is what the rider wants to do? But if a talented rider starts a nice QH and a nice WB at the same time, same age, same training program - and of course assuming no set backs such as injury or illness, etc. - which one is more likely to make it to PSG or higher? My money is on the WB.
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Then you must be in Region 5, it’s the only one that spans the U.S. border to border. I realize that has more to do with population in the states in that location, but it seems unfair that you might have to travel some great distance to show, especially if there is a big dressage community in those states. I’m in Region 6, and a lot of folks from up here go to California (Region 7) to compete.
So this ties into the main complaint that I interpret to be: money is the bottom line factor. Some folks can afford to show, but choose not to because they don’t have a fancy, imported, six-figure horse, so they cannot possibly hope to compete on their OTTB or non-warmblood breed. Some people have said they just flat can’t afford to show, and others mention that the cost of owning a horse, especially if you board, is pricing them out of horses altogether. So that is a consensus of sorts. The reasons vary, but the end result is the same: cost. If that is what’s killing recognized dressage shows, then what is the answer? How do we make it more affordable for those of us who weren’t born with silver spoons in our mouths? Gas costs a lot. Trucks and trailers nowadays cost A LOT. Boarding, at least at a show barn, can range from a couple hundred to a couple thousand a month, depending on where you live. For one horse. Hay costs a fortune these days. Entry fees are ridiculous, especially when you factor in all the membership fees. Then you have to pay your trainer for coaching at the show. Some pay for braiding/grooming. All the little administrative fees. You are paying board at home, but still have to pay for your stall at the show along with the bedding for the duration. I’m not saying that any of that is unnecessary, I’m asking how can we make the sport more affordable for the average Jane? I don’t have an answer.
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If you pick up the USDF Yearbook, you will see there are other incentives for competing with an off-breed horse. The USDF breed award program is robust. Plenty of riders want to represent “their” breed and are thrilled to be included in the year end awards.
Medals are another incentive for off-breed riders. Medal scores for a bronze are attainable for a decently trained, average-moving horse. The photos in the yearbook show all kinds of breeds. Of course it does get harder when trying to get a silver or gold medal, but there are off-breeds earning those medals as well.
The only drawback is the cost of showing to get those scores. I think every average wage-earning person here agrees costs can be prohibitive to showing.
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Let’s not forget that there’s a fee for each of those programs, too 
Not a big one, but it all adds up.
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Let me know when we get to talk about the Mean Girl Factor that lurks below the surface in all this.
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Y’all need to move to the Midwest. Dressage shows here are not at all condescending or “Mean Girl,” IME.
On the flip side, our weather sucks. But I’m getting more and more used to it!
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That’s why I mentioned cost. It is freaking expensive!
Someone mentioned mean girls. I think they are referring to people on this thread, but it relates to competitions. I can tell you our local shows attract a nice, supportive group of riders. If there are arrogant jerks, they aren’t noticeable. The young riders and kids get special attention and support. People fuss and gush over kids on ponies. Everyone gets a “good ride” comment from show staff and volunteers or an encouraging word after a ride that did not go well.
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