What is killing recognized dressage shows?

[fivestrideline]

@DownYonder

I also understand that there are surveys and cost-benefit analyses done that consider the $$$$ brought in by GIHP visitors who utilize the area hotels, restaurants, etc.

About once a decade, the city of Alpharetta tries to defund Wills Park (or shift the equestrian money to the ball fields, anyway) and TPTB have to put huge amounts of effort into proving the worth of the horse park. The Wills Park Foundation has done a fabulous job recently renovating the facility and putting in new rings/getting rid of some of the larger issues, with plans to fix the barns next. I’m not in the loop anymore due to moving out of state, but if GIHP could talk to the Wills crew it might get some traction.

That said, the city of Milton (next door to Alpharetta) is heavily horsey and has historically protected those interests, so I’m sure that helps. Also, very few people doing horses on a shoestring up there, so there’s a good amount of money to throw around.

[DownYonder]

Thanks, my understanding is that the VHC situation is not unknown to parties involved with the GIHP Foundation or community leaders. I think a great deal of the problem with GIHP is because it is not truly a state facility (despite its name) - financial decisions are made at the city level.

[pluvinel]

@DownYonder

I think a great deal of the problem with GIHP is because it is not truly a state facility (despite its name) - financial decisions are made at the city level.

Well, that’s probably contributing to the problem. As I understand the changes at VHC was the change in management and running the facility as a business.

[DownYonder]

Good point about Alpharetta and Wills Park. I was actually involved with the early effort to counteract the last effort by the city to turn the Wills Park Equestrian Center into a swim club or tennis facility or more ball fields. I was the person who delved into the financial documents and proposals and discovered an egregious error in the report that was based on a research study and proposal funded by the city. In essence, the report mentioned income for only one year, but expenses for a two-year period - and naturally, that info was interpreted by city fathers and local media (including Atlanta TV news outlets) to support the claim that WPEC was losing money hand over fist. But analysis of the actual research study itself indicated that WPEC had actually made a small profit during the years covered by the study.

The report also claimed that WPEC was underutilized and TV news stories included footage taken mid-week at the EC, when admittedly there wasn’t much going on. (Of course, there wasn’t much going on mid-week at the ball fields either, but the study - and news stories - conveniently omitted that fact.) However, I looked at the WPEC calendar and realized that the facility was booked for events every single weekend of the year except for two weekends near Christmas and New Year’s Day - and the vast majority of those events were equestrian competitions (a couple of the events were dog agility trials, etc.).

So those two key points of the study were debunked and I also pointed out that WPEC had been the beating heart of Alpharetta for many decades and had helped spur the growth of the city and surrounding areas by attracting folks who wanted to live in a “horsey” area. After my initial involvement, I stepped back due to other demands on my time and focus, but the Alpharetta Equestrian Alliance was in very capable hands and it really took off, with the result being that WPEC was saved and upgrades to the facility began to take place. The place is vastly improved, with new rings, new footing, and more upgrades are in the works.

Oh my, do I digress. At any rate, many folks in the Conyers area are aware of both the VHC and WPEC situations. It remains to be seen what can be done to try to save GIHP’s reputation as a “premier” equestrian facility.

[fivestrideline]

Wow, thanks for all you’ve done! I’m sure it was a monumental effort - and repeatedly so. I was pretty sure the GIHP crew was aware (and face different challenges) but I do hope the facility can be saved and improved. I loved showing there as a kid - it felt very prestigious.

[pluvinel]

@DownYonder

I was actually involved with the early effort to counteract the last effort by the city to turn the Wills Park Equestrian Center into a swim club or tennis facility or more ball fields. I was the person who delved into the financial documents and proposals and discovered an egregious error in the report that was based on a research study and proposal funded by the city.

This is a great example of the use of data to rebut misconceptions. But it isn’t just “data” that is needed…

Data is the begining which leads to information, which leads to knowledge, which eventually leads to wisdom. But every step requires a transformation.

The ability to do this transformation in the various successful horse center cases required that someone be available with the knowledge to look at and interpret the reports and distill the knowledge and wisdom. It was fortuitous that you were available to review the information and present it to the decisionmakers.

[DownYonder]

@pluvinel

Great info and excellent graphic! But, to be clear, I didn’t present the info to “the decisionmakers” but rather to key people in the fledgling group that became the Alpharetta Equestrian Alliance. And they leveraged that info along with other stats to convince city leadership that they were wrong about WPEC no longer being important to the city.

But yes, it took more than just data - it took a good understanding of the part that equestrian activities had played in helping to spur the city’s growth over the decades. Luckily, I had lived in the area for decades and seen that growth, and I also (luckily) took the time to do a deep dive into the research study and resulting report. And I did it very soon after the report came out and local news outlets were running with the story that the city was going to demolish the equestrian facility and replace it with a natatorium or tennis center or more ballfields (more than a few city leaders had cozy relationships with developers who were itching to get that fat city contract). So by quickly determining that the report was flawed, the fledgling Alliance was able to start debunking the spin that the facility was costing the city too much money and was not serving the recreation needs of a growing populace.

I only hope there are folks in the Conyers area who can and will make the same effort regarding GIHP. There have been some suggestions through the years that the equestrian part of the facility has outlived its usefulness, but thankfully those suggestions have so far been rejected.

[NJRider]

Yes I wish Janet had a page setup like Natalie Lamping. I am not friends with Natalie, but I can read her posts. She does seem to enjoy sharing a lot of useful information especially about Regionals. She is currently on a tear about improperly fitted helmets. But you can follow her page you don’t have to be a friend of hers.
But with Janet it is not set up the same way. It would be interesting to read some of her commentary.

[Mander]

There’s also the issue that, for most kids, dressage just doesn’t look as fun as many of the other disciplines. How many young riders do you know who, when given the option, will choose nitpicking every stride of a circle in a sandbox over jumping things or galloping around a XC course or barrel racing, etc?

[Mander]

Maybe I’m just ignorant (I’ve never been to finals, and frankly, probably never will) but this begs the question to me - if there aren’t any venues that meet the requirements of hosting finals, but entries are way down, has anyone looked to see if the facility requirements are higher than necessary?

On a related note, is there anywhere to see the entry list for finals this year?

[sparkygrace]

Horse Show Office will have the scores once the show starts. Here are the entries by rider:

ridetimes.pdf

[Silverbridge]

Another thing to keep in mind at KY Horse Park, in its favor, is direct access to some paid personnel able to help (or even take the lead) in the production and hosting of the event. USEF is there. USDF is there.

From the comments in this thread it’s clear there are other GMOs in varied Regions with successful annual show production experience, and with board leaders & committees etc who can handle the workload. And the fundraising.

Many locations don’t have those systems or leaders in place. Mine doesn’t-- they’re lucky to limp through to holding the two or three shows per year already scheduled. Scottsdale didn’t even apply to host Regionals for five years running because the board couldn’t manage it. It returned this year and I am told the show broke even. Whew.

So even if the geographic access or venue sizes look appealing for hosting/rotating the Finals somewhere else away from KY, the GMOs in those areas maybe aren’t capable of even putting on something that massive.

It’s a quandary for sure.

(sorry didn’t mean that to be a reply to one poster, it was supposed to be a general reply. Hit the wrong button.)

[atr]

I think that is a very good point. Silverbridge.

I’m not exactly National contention material, but if I were, I’m not sure I would have too much of a problem with Nationals being at a central venue if it meant that it was a really well run, big time show. Though yes, its a trek to get there from the West Coast, to be sure.

But there’s always something.

[phoenixrises]

Dressage at Devon does this and "Im usually pretty darn close to the judge closest to wherever I’m sitting.

[Cowgirl]

I paid $400 to bring a non-competing horse to a show. This is becuase we have to pay for the entire weekend package (even if you only want to stay one night) and the stabling and fees total a little over $300 (like $325) and I have to pay for a health certificate. We also are required to buy a minimum of four bags of shavings from the facility. When you add the entries on to this amount, it can cost $750+ for a show weekend depending on how many shows it is combined (how many office and drug fees you have to pay) and how many tests you ride. The lack of a day stall or overnight stall and not being able to bring your own (half the price) shavings is really having a part to play in eliminating those on a budget. Our show community has also narrowed further because it is impossible to get stabling at most of the shows and the same people are awarded the stabling over and over again. Personally, I am not going to show my young horses out of my trailer, especially if it is a 3 hour round trip. Additionally, you cannot get a refund when you find out, much too late, that you don’t have a stall or you are stabled five miles aways from the show (and have to show out of your trailer), so many people don’t even bother to try to enter certain shows. What might help us here is a lottery system for stabling.

[phoenixrises]

Thought this was interesting when it showed up on my feed. Looks like this may be an across the board USA problem?

[lazaret]

It’s a problem anywhere that someone feels like they can make more money off an event.

[lorilu]

Another factor that makes the KHP attractive for nationals is that many of the arena decorations etc are recycled from a big show the week before Nationals.
It’s too bad everyone can’t see Janet’s thread. Lots of ideas. I referenced this thread on the post; maybe I’ll do that again. Lots of good ideas here as well.

[Cowgirl]

For the US Dressage Finals, it’s a miserable time of year to be traveling for many of us. As a result, much of the qualified competition doesn’t go, so how meaningful is it, really?

[xQHDQ]

They raised the freestyle score from 68 to 70 to qualify for USDF Finals. Maybe that’s why they are down so many entries this year.
Make it easier to qualify for things and you’ll have more people competing and trying.