What is killing recognized dressage shows?

[lorilu]

IMO you really shouldn’t compare required scores for a freestyle to those of a regular test. Freestyle Scores are usually higher, if they have good artistic scores.
If they were raising regular test scores to 70 as a requirement for Nationals I would be incensed and disappointed for the reasons cited.

[Dressurfrau]

Thanks for sharing that. I didn’t realize that a percentage of our fees went to Elite riders. There needs to be another way to fund that rather than the general membership population. We don’t receive any benefit from that but we do receive USEF mailings asking us for donations to support the team.

[lorilu]

Next years proposed budget is posted on USDF.org. You can see where the money goes. I’ll find a direct link in a minute.
https://www.usdf.org/zip/governance/topic.asp?id=143

[netg]

@pluvinel

Yes…I fully understand we are discussing entries being down. And I posted that the scoring criteria says 60% is Satisfactory…and by arbitrarily jacking up the score to qualify you cut out potential participants.

I spent the last 10 years of my career doing quality engineering. If you think of performance as a distribution, you can establish a cut-off. By simply shifting where you place that cut-off you truncate that part of your distribution.

The dressage PTB’s focus on starting the scoring with gaits (as discussed above on this thread) has produced a perversion on what should be a test of training.

I just needed to ditto this.

[Mander]

In a thread about rising costs, increased frustration with the cost/benefit ratio of showing at all, the reduced number of rated shows available, and increased memberships and general hoops to jump through, I can’t help but notice their proposed budget anticipates about 1300 new participating members….

ETA: 1500 -> 1300 as I was too lazy to use a calculator earlier.

[Libby2563]

@eponacelt

Region 1 Finals had Training and First Level tests that ran ALL DAY LONG. A lot of the scores and rides were pretty bad. I don’t think making it easier to qualify is the answer. If it were, some regions would need to have classes that go over multiple days to get all the rides in.

@barnesthenoble

Meanwhile Region 7 finals, which in 2014 had over 600 entries and 1500 rides running concurrently in 6 rings over four days, ran with 238 entries this year. Yes, some of this can be chalked up to the pandemic, but not all of it. I just did a cursory glance and Training and 1st ride times both spanned an hour (TL) or two (1st) each day. The “big” 1L class was 16 riders. In previous years there were upwards of 40.

Clearly it’s regional but it’s still striking to see how much the sport has shrunk in R7 in just 9 years.

I haven’t looked at data, but while reading this thread and other similar ones I’ve been wondering if horse sports are becoming more concentrated to specific geographic areas in addition to overall participation decreasing. With remote work becoming more common (even before Covid), amateurs can go where the training/boarding/competition opportunities are strongest—which may then in turn attract more trainers from other areas. I think people choosing the highest-end show facilities over the local ones would play into this too.

[pluvinel]

@Mander

I can’t help but notice their proposed budget anticipates about 1500 new participating members….

Thank you!

According to p.10, Revenue from
Participating Membership (2023) $1,641,154 (2024) $1,760,305
That is a delta of $119,141. At $90/PM that works out to 1,324 new PMs.

Does anyone know what the current Group Member Fee is?
Group Member Dues (2023) 400,426 (2024). 442,110

It would be interesting to see what the current USDF membership is.

[xQHDQ]

But the freestyles are now judged differently. The mark for technical is more important than artistic.
Regardless, take a look at the scores from this year’s regionals. I looked at Region 8 and they were very low compared to last year. Maybe the judges got a talking to. Don’t know. But, if you want entries at anything you need to qualify for, if you lower the qualifying score, you get more entries.

[lorilu]

$24 of the GMO membership fee goes to USDF, and $10 for supporting members. Of course GMOs add to the basic fee sent to USDF.

[Mander]

So they’re anticipating at least 1750 more GMO participating members?

[fledermaus]

Would it be an accurate assessment of the overall opinion of this thread that

1. competitive dressage is struggling to maintain participation numbers, leading to event deserts in some places.
2. it has gotten more and more expensive to participate.
3. there is a falling off of the numbers of young and up and coming competitors, and this cohort is also clearly not supported as well as it could be.
4. expensive gaits are being rewarded over demonstrations of competent training of lesser horses.

Am I more or less on track with this?

[sami-joe]

This made me smile.
My sister is the summarizer in our family. She’s generally correct.
I extrapolate, sometimes muddying the waters.
You and my sister are cut from the same cloth. I appreciate a good summary, and I think you’re absolutely correct.
Thank you.
The only thing I would add, because, er, see above, is:
5. As a taxpayer-subsidized entity, the USDF, et al, should be doing more than the bare minimum if they actually want to grow and serve the anachronistic future of horse in our culture, as opposed to simply survive as a business.

[fledermaus]

In my admittedly very limited experience, avocational organizations do not change if the top tier is getting what they want. Shafting the bottom and middle doesn’t matter enough to make a change. Because those cohorts are never really in charge.

Instead, those tiers vote with their feet. They find other organizations that serve them better. That’s why Western Dressage, Working Equitation, and the like, are growing, and Competitive Dressage is shrinking.

It’s also, I think, a reflection of the long trend in American society towards squeezing the middle class dry to enrich a small group at the very top.

[netg]

Specifically in the topic of Nationals, I qualified and chose not to go. My reasons:

1. Cost - travel, shipping, airfare, hotels
2. Difficulty on the horse, because of the distance I would want her in a full stall if I could book one
3. Reports from friends who have been about how awful the weather gets, and I know amateurs at lower levels would be treated as an afterthought in the lower quality rings
4. Timing - if it were like many championship shows in the breed show world and there were time to plan, I might have gone

We have improved a lot, but opened up new holes we have to work on, so would not have been competitive. I might have chosen to go despite the above items if we would be, but with all of them there was not much to tip the scale toward going.

[Mondo]

@netg

• Cost - travel, shipping, airfare, hotels
• Difficulty on the horse, because of the distance I would want her in a full stall if I could book one
• Reports from friends who have been about how awful the weather gets, and I know amateurs at lower levels would be treated as an afterthought in the lower quality rings
• Timing - if it were like many championship shows in the breed show world and there were time to plan, I might have gone

And all of that means fewer pairs that DO go and guess what? You are not seeing the best of the region at the championship - you are seeing those who could afford to make the trip. It’s a farce.

[ahdressage]

Kind of an adjacent topic but simply trying to follow the shows has become more difficult.
Results are now posted on several websites: Equestrian Hub, Fox Village, Horse Show Office.

Fox Village used to report results on all shows. I guess shows are managed by different groups now who all decide what platform they want to use.

Makes it harder for a fan to follow the sport.

[DownYonder]

I agree. I try to follow some shows and friends that still compete and it is a PIA navigating the different sites. One of our local GMOs just switched to Horse Show Office after using Fox Village for many years. I’m guessing it had to do with cost and/or usability, but as a viewer, I find it a bit more difficult to find shows on HSO.

[sami-joe]

Yes, yes, and, lastly, preach!

Editing to add that I’ve long thought US horse ownership could be construed by some smart horse-y economist as an economic indicator to demonstrate the evaporation of the middle class in the late 20th century.

[Mardi1]

@Bogey2

My friends who are FEI trainers don’t make money when they take clients to Wellington for 5-6 months, a lot of times they lose money but they go so they can show. It’s gotten so expensive the average client they used to take can’t afford to go any longer.

This is main reason the Desert Dressage winter circuit was created in southern California.
With so many top open riders and adult amateurs based on the west coast, there was a need for a professionally run national and FEI circuit so people could stay close to home. They’ve increased the prize money, and have WC qualifiers. Thomas Baur runs it at the Desert International Horse Park in Thermal, and it’s become quite popular.

[Snow_Mass]

Horse show software is now a competitive market and the foxvillage platform no longer has the monopoly on dressage shows. It’s always about ease of usability and fees.