What is she? Best guesses

This little nugget was dropped of on our road this summer. She’s maybe 10 lbs. Full of fun, mostly quiet, very happy. I’m guessing chihuahua mixed with? She likes to hide food for later, loves the cats, loves everything. I’m not wasting $$ on a dna test. What’s your guess?

I see papillion and cavalier spaniel more than chihuahua.

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Perhaps I’m biased but I think I see a bit of dachshund in the face (particularly the side view) and the length. She is darn cute, whatever is in there! I have a dachsie cross, most people think border collie. He is a fair amount bigger, at 25 lbs.

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Boy this is a tough one to guess. She’s darling, whatever she is.

For some fun, post her picture and a brief description on the Facebook for Embark Vet DNA and lots of experienced guessers will contribute. It’s fun even if you don’t do a test. But I’d be so curious I’d do the DNA.

pappillon, shitzu, llasa type thing for the tail? Maybe some JRT? She’s very cute.

I see mostly Papillon. I’d say maybe mixed with a herding mix or sporting mix based on the freckling. Of course it’s impossible to really say. Strangely if you google Papillon and then Border Collie you will get “Papillon Border Collie Mix” and that looks pretty similar.

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Blue Ribbon cute !!!

DEFINITELY some BC in the mix! Cute one – glad she got a good home!

Yeah, they call those “Border-Paps” - they’re a designer mix that are bred for agility.

OP, I definitely see Papillion and there’s something JRT about the body shape of your girl - she’s wicked cute!

OMG. Yuck. That’s ridiculous.

Why on earth would someone deliberately cross a herding breed with a toy breed?

Well, Border Collies and Papillions are both generally very competitive in agility (in their respective height classes). The intent of the cross is kind of like doing a WB/TB cross for eventing - you’re hoping to get the best of each breed (very fast, very agile, very trainable) in an in-between sized package to be more competitive in a specific height class.

Not saying I agree with it, but I’m familiar with a few folks who have purpose-bred crosses for agility.

I understand the concept. I disagree with cross-breeding in general. But, I can’t imagine why anyone would think that those two breeds would make a good purpose-bred cross. They may both be good in agility for their respective sizes, but they are entirely different in every other respect - temperament, size, intelligence, not to mention original purpose. It would be difficult to know what you would get from a cross. And, let’s be honest, the BC is not improved as an agility dog by breeding with a Papillon. So what’s the real purpose? A smaller, stupider, easier to keep up with BC?

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I think you haven’t seen much high level agility. (That’s OK, I don’t know much about hunt tests.) Papillions can be incredibly fast, drivey little dogs. Not quite BC fast, but they can be very impressive and completely belie your impression of “smaller, stupider, slower”. Paps aren’t my breed of choice, but I know a number of very good ones in agility and (full disclosure) almost got one.

The intent of the particular litter of BorderPaps that I’m personally familiar with was to breed very fast, trainable, high level dogs that would mature at a height that fits the international “small” dog height class. ( I don’t know those specs off the top of my head - I’m not trying out for World Team or European Open, so I don’t follow those competitions or rules.)

Once again, I’m not saying I agree with purposefully breeding the cross-breds, but that particular cross is less of a Frankenstein than I think you’re envisioning. The BorderJacks were much less … harmonious… as an intentional cross. And mixed breeds are legal in all of the US agility venues that I’m familiar with, whether the breeding was random or planned.

I have, and I know several people that have Papillons and compete them in agility. I don’t compete in agility myself, but a lot of my dog friends do (and one person in my breed who I know won the 16" class in Orlando in December.)

So, the point of a Border-Pap is to get a faster dog into the “small” dog height class. I disagree with this reason for cross-breeding too.

In my breed cross-breeding is done in secret, for the opposite reason - to get a “Brittany” the size of a Pointer and make it more competitive in field trials. Rather than just getting a Pointer…for some reason. I guess because they can be the “best Brittany” even if they aren’t the “best pointing dog”…but when the dog in question doesn’t actually meet the breed standard, it’s cheating.

I realize that agility allows for mixed breed entries. I guess I am just prejudiced against manipulating breeds to be more competitive.

Once Pandora’s box has been opened, competitive people are gonna do what competitive people do… doesn’t matter if it’s dogs or horses or anything else.

To get us back on topic, though - OP, it looks like both you and Puppet (love that name, btw) hit the jackpot!

I’m in a poor county in Alabama where the idea of a papillon within 30 miles is almost ludicrous :wink:

Are the dog dna tests worth anything at all? I know the horse tests are garbage.

She’s super trainable, quiet, moderate energy, and soft haired. She’s not yappy in the least. She’s a real gem, whatever she is.

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I did the Embark test and was really surprised by how informative it was, especially the health panel. Gave me an answer to the back issue my dog had and it was helpful to know the long-term prognosis for that disease.

I was pretty accurate to my guess for what my girl was, but there was a hilarious ancestor lurking in the background that I sure would have never guessed was there.

The list of “likely to have” for her appearance was dead-on. Very fun results and well-worth the money especially for the health panel.

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Personally, I think the dna tests are not worth anything. Because most likely your dog is the result of a five generations of mutt x mutt. You are right - it’s not like a purebred Pap and a purebred BC just happened to meet on the side of the road and produce this litter. It could be the case (e.g. someone purposely bred a litter like this, and this puppy somehow escaped)…but it’s less likely in most cases.

So…what does it really tell you? (Nothing).

As for the health aspect, it may identify a genetic issue, but it won’t identify the most common congenital defects like hip dysplasia, epilepsy, certain eye and heart issues…because they are not carried by specific genes and/or have not yet been identified. Many of the tests that are in the screening are very rare and often breed specific.

Omg, adorable, I just wanna hug her!!!,

I agree with you on the Embark DNA test and health panel. The consensus on my dog forum
amongst breeders of GSD and other herding dogs is that Embark is pretty accurate. They’re
affiliated with Cornell