What is the best way to fix this mess?

[maddyiy]

I made a stupid decision and I’m trying to find the right way to fix it.

My horse has an history of not being very sound with two years where he wasn’t right and it took a lot of time and effort to find the right solutions. He also has kissing spines, so I know keeping his feet in shape is crucial for his back, he has been shod all around and just recently with pads in front, and he was going really well.

Until a month ago he was the soundest and fittest he’s ever been, he was feeling so good and moving amazing. And then I ruined it.
I thought it would be a good idea to pull his hinds and change his living conditions to a single big grass paddock to many acres of land with other horses, because I didn’t want him living alone.

And I’m regretting it so much, I think it’s the worst decision I’ve made for I’m and I feel really really bad.
His hinds have worn out very quickly in like 20 days without shoes, probably because of the difference in terrain, and he threw a front shoe two days ago.

To add to all of this my previous farrier got mad at me because he misunderstood the situation and won’t come out, so I’m calling a new one on Monday hoping he’ll come soon and that he’s good with problematic feet.

Now my question is: do I have him shod behind immediately if possible or do I try for a bit longer and see if in his old living conditions the hinds grow back?

I’m just so scared that I blew all we achieved in a year of hard work, and I hate to see him miserable so a good part of me just wants to go back as soon as possible as things were.
I know I made a lot of dumb decisions, please be kind, I clearly forgot for a moment the horse I have in hand, and none of my professionals advised me against this.

[RhythmNCruise]

First of all, you didn’t make dumb decisions. Your intentions were good and things haven’t worked the way you’d hoped. So don’t be so hard on yourself.

I assume you pulled the hinds due to the group turnout? Is that a requirement where he is? I understand the thinking of it, as it surely reduces the chance of catastrophic injury from a kick. I’ve owned and known horses shod all the way around that are in group turnout with no issues. In fact, through most of my 36 years of owning horses at all sorts of barns, there were fully shod horses turned out in groups. I don’t remember anyone’s horses getting hurt due to kicking with shoes. We just made sure there weren’t too many horses for the acreage and that the turnout herds were compatible.

So, if it’s allowed, I’d put the shoes back on and keep him in the bigger group turnout. If it’s not allowed, I totally get it though.

It seems that having the hind shoes is pretty important to his overall comfort and soundness, so I’d replace them and put him back in solo turnout if he’s not allowed in the group turnout with the hinds.

[maddyiy]

Thank you for your kindness, I’m definitely pretty mad at myself because sometimes I feel it doesn’t matter how much I know him, I still want to try something else that inevitably won’t work.

Unfortunately here group turnout with hinds on is not allowed, and that’s why I tried this solution but I’m really wondering if it’s worth risking everything.

I don’t want to risk another six months of lameness, pain, stiffness adding to all we worked on, and it’s not like he’s five and has all the time in the world ( and I don’t have all the money ).

I’m already starting to notice little things and being paranoid, like a hind that rotates more, he doesn’t seem that straight, and the right front seems to land clearly before on the outside and then flat.

I don’t know if I’m overreacting or if I should trust my gut.

[chocolate_chip_in]

It sounds like he was fine with hind shoes and in solo turnout? Then put the hind shoes back on and return him to his prior turnout arrangements, if your barn doesn’t allow hind shoes in group turnout. (Mine doesn’t either.)

Sometimes we try things with the best intentions, and they don’t work out. That’s okay. Please give yourself some grace here.

[OverandOnward]

@maddyiy

Thank you for your kindness, I’m definitely pretty mad at myself because sometimes I feel it doesn’t matter how much I know him, I still want to try something else that inevitably won’t work.

Please don’t let your efforts to help your horse make you mad at yourself. I will bet that some of your efforts have done well! Don’t focus on those that didn’t work, or didn’t work right away, and while ignoring those that turned out well.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve his quality of life. Allow that sometimes things won’t work, or won’t work ideally. That’s the life we all live with, it’s not just you.

Remember what’s worse is giving up when we know that there is still something that could help.

It is very hard to know when we are at ‘best possible’ and to leave it be. And for how long it is still ‘best possible’. There is no notification or scorecard to identify that spot, when we are trying to help an NQR horse, animal … or human.

Give yourself a big long hug and know that you have done and are doing good things for your horse. He is very lucky to have an owner who cares.

[OverandOnward]

Is it possible that he just needs some time for his feet to adjust to the new situation?

I agree with putting the hind shoes back on if allowed, and allowing him to stay with the herd, if he seems to be adjusting well to it.

If it is not allowed for him to have hind shoes with group turnout, how bad are his hind feet now, really? Could you give him a couple of farrier cycles to see if his feet with adjust, without any real damage? Maybe some work rest for that to happen?

Pulling shoes can need an adjustment period – that’s normal. I don’t know your horse’s case, of course, with the issues he has had.

If things aren’t at ‘acceptable’ after a couple of farrier cycles, maybe then go back to the old way.

It could be that things need time for everything to settle to this new normal. But again, I don’t really know for your horse’s situation. Just that these can be some considerations for many horses.

I had one that went from 50% barn to 100% living out, with shoes to keep his feet in condition. He’s not aggressive, not a kicker of his turnout buddies. After a year he is just now without shoes. Has a good farrier who knows how to shape his feet. So far, so good! Hopefully that lasts. Remains to be seen.

[FjordBCRF]

@maddyiy

I don’t know if I’m overreacting or if I should trust my gut.

I’m a big proponent of trusting your gut. I recently went through a bad year with my guy; knee buckling (went down with me on him once), slightly weird neck X-rays, EPM treatment, and just finishing up 3 months of treatment for Lyme. He’s also an easy keeper which adds an additional layer of environmental complications

You’ve done nothing wrong in trying to set him up in the most ideal situation for a horse! As tempting as it is for me to want to try my guy out in the field with his friends, my gut says keep him on the dry lot, so I have. All signs point to him being very happy, and his turnout shares a fence with another pasture so he’s got neighbors in the summer. He has a winter turnout buddy as well when the pastures are closed for the winter.

If your gut is telling you to keep him how he was when he was doing well, I would personally just do that. The ones that are hyper sensitive can be so hard and defeating sometimes

[Christa_P]

Would glue on shoes be an option in his current situation?

[tiktokontheclock]

First of all, don’t beat yourself up! You made a decision thinking it was in his best interest, and now that you know it isn’t working, you’re fixing it immediately. You sound like a great horse mom to me!

In regards to how to fix it, I would probably try hoof boots before nailing shoes back on: I’m not anti shoe, but if you add them to already damaged feet, he’s most likely going to pull them off and further screw up his hoof walls. This can also help him through the transition process and allow him to stay barefoot.

The Equine Jogging Boot by Equine Fusion have been great for my boys and stayed on in turnout for some rambunctious airs above the ground, haha. I’m not associated with them at all but they’re a reasonable price, have held up for more than a year, and the horses keep them on.

[CHT]

I agree with this. It’s possible your barn may be ok with plastic hind glue on shoes for the hinds as they don’t have the same degree of danger, and seem to stay on quite well.

[Demerara_Stables]

1. Don’t beat yourself up, you’re doing the best you can

2. These adjustments take time. For some horses a few months, for some a year. I’m not saying to let your horse hobble around foot sore for a year, but be open to trying different solutions before throwing in the towel.

3. As far as the hind feet are concerned, my first suggestion would be to try boots. There are tons of different types, and they work differently for different horses. I personally use the EasyBoot glove. They are thick enough to provide protection from rocks (scoot boots are quite thin for larger horses), aren’t slippery (I’ve seen some plastic boots cause slipping), and with the pastern strap, sizing is more forgiving (you can get away with a slightly larger size). They aren’t perfect and I’ve had them come off, but they’re the best I’ve found. My second suggestion is composite shoes, specifically the easy care versa, which comes in a glue on or nail on version. They are softer than a hoof, so they are safe for group turnout. I’ve confirmed this with the owner of Easy Care, and he has the data to back it up.

4. How is your horse otherwise? Does he seem happy with his herd? Is he moving more? How is his body (other than possible back soreness from ouchy feet)? There are very few horses that don’t do better in group turnout than alone. I don’t know your horse, so I can’t say how he is, but genuinely assess if he’s happier with friends before going back to his previous life. There will be an adjustment period, and he’ll probably get herd sour, but he’ll get over it with consistency and patience.

I’ve transitioned around 15 horses to herd turnout over the past 4 years, and I’ve removed hind shoes on most of them (some were already barefoot). Only one has needed the hind shoes replaced. Every single horse has been happier, fitter, and sounder in the herd than on solo paddock turnout. Every single owner has commented how more relaxed and happier their horse is, and how much better their body looks on group turnout.

[maddyiy]

Thank you to everyone who answered so far!! You’re all being so nice to much more than I am to myself!!

I hear all of your suggestions and these are things I’m keeping in mind since my idea is not to go back to shoes immediately.

My priority now is getting the new farrier out as soon as possible and have him shod in front since without a shoe he is deeply deeply uncomfortable, even lame at walk, and this scares me because it’s never happened like this.
I’m thinking that he can’t rely on his hinds for support as much as he should since he’s also uncomfortable and so is generally more sore, which is the worst part.

Lifestyle wise immediately after he lost the front shoe he got back to his old living condition: he would normally be in 24/7 turnout with grass, hay and water and a 1m high fence where he can communicate with other two horses on the side. At the moment it’s really really hot in the day so he’s being stabled up to 6/7 hours.

He’s coping well because he’s an angel but I think I shouldn’t have put him in that new situation with his hinds just being pulled. I should have at least waited until next spring, but unfortunately I just don’t think it’s the best living condition for him if I want to keep him sound and happy.
There’s just too much risk of him losing shoes and being uncomfortable with the rough terrain.

While he was in the group turnout he made friends with a mare that will have the same lifestyle as him this autumn/ winter ( single paddock ) and I know the owner well, so we agreed that if I keep him barefoot behind they can be together.

I know for a fact she’s not comfortable with them being together if he’s shod, I don’t really know about other type of materials so I’ll ask.

I was thinking of asking the new farrier if we could have him in glue on or something like that for a cycle, to have him grow some feet and see how it goes. It’s just harder since I don’t know him and how he works.

I’ll put here some pictures of his hinds before and after.
First ones are from end of July and the other ones are the other day.

[RhythmNCruise]

I just want to put a plug in for Durasole. My gelding has always been barefoot, but he has thin soles and can get pretty tender on rougher surfaces (rocks, roots, etc), especially when it has been wet and his feet are soft. He does have a pair of hoof boots for his fronts (his “hiking boots” I call them), but I honestly haven’t used them in probably a year now because I’ve really been slathering the Durasole all over the bottoms of his feet and backs of his heels and it seems to make him so much more comfortable.

I also do Farrier Barrier on the outside of the feet. And I also make sure my horse is getting fed plenty of copper (300+ mg), zinc (900+ mg), biotin (25+ mg) and amino acids, magnesium, Omega 3, etc. A forage balancer like Vermont Blend or KIS Trace can provide high levels of these and really impact hoof health for the better.

It sounds like you’ve got a good plan with your friend with the mare. And there are plenty of horses that are happy to be in solo turnout with neighbors. Heck, the guy that keeps horses in the pasture next to the one where my gelding and his girlfriend live had to separate his own two horses because one of them was beating up the other. It happens. The horses can still visit over the electric fence and everyone is content and safe.

[RedHorses]

I’m going to be the devil’s advocate. Put the hind shoes back on and don’t mess with barefoot for this horse. Keep him how he’s been kept when he’s been doing the best he’s been in years.

When you have the collection of issues that need careful balancing of care like this, it’s extremely easy to upset that balance. Getting things back to balanced again can be very difficult as compensation strain cascades through the horse’s body.

If you can’t resist changing things do them as slowly as possible so you can pull back quickly. For example try composite shoes without changing his living situation. If they work, try a companion if their owner is okay with the hind shoes. Ride to develop fitness and strength for a year with him at his best before considering challenging turnout terrain.

My (now 27) horse injured his stifle on September 30, 2022. He also got cellulitis in November 2022 with caused months of abscesses. He reinjured the stifle in April 2023, got cellulitis again in November 2023, and got even more months of abscesses in 2024 as a result. In the spring of 2023 he was so uncomfortable in his hind end that the vet didn’t even do a lameness assessment, and held his foot up for xrays so he didn’t have to stand on the blocks.

Unfortunately the stifle healed imperfectly, and he finds slippy or unstable footing aggravates it. We had assumed the hind end issues were due to compensation strain from the abscesses. This winter I found out it was from compensating for the fragile stifle. I watched my horse get progressively more uncomfortable in the exact way he had the previous year. I initially thought it was the Osphos wearing off, but by mid March the pattern was unmistakable to me. It was bad enough that if I had known last spring’s pain was due to his stifle, I would not have asked him to go through another winter. I won’t be asking him to go through the next one.

I knew my horse would be better with the summer footing, and repeated the Osphos early in the spring so he would be as comfortable as possible for his last six months. It was mid May by the time he was more comfortable than not. He still hasn’t quite gotten back to as good as he was last fall, and may not get there at all.

All to say - proceed with extreme caution.

[rulex]

@maddyiy

my previous farrier got mad at me because he misunderstood the situation and won’t come out

That seems pretty unprofessional, so don’t let their own issues make you feel bad or beat yourself up over it.

Your thread title is asking about the “best” way. But what does that mean to you? Are you looking for the fastest way to get your horse back in a rideable state? Or wanting your horse to be comfortable and happy for the long term? Even if that could take years of peeling layers of the onion given his issues.

@maddyiy

without a shoe he is deeply deeply uncomfortable

Boots can be a great temporary option to be able to provide more immediate comfort until the farrier can get there.

Another option is making sure your horse has a comformable surface they always access to get some relief, even if other parts of the paddock are not. That way they can make their own choices to help manage their comfort level and movement.

[maddyiy]

This. You voiced my thoughts perfectly, maybe it’s just my fears maybe not.
Right now I think I was really blinded to think that what I tried could work, and I know him enough to the point that he’s exactly as you described.

He’s a horse that came to me with certain issues already, and due to inexperience and poor previous management I just started to actually discover them and address them in the last two years.

Someone here months ago wrote something along the lines of “ If it’s not broke, don’t fix it” when I was asking advice about changing his management or not. And it really stuck with me so I didn’t, until now when I thought it would be a good idea to try and I just wish more of my professionals were against this.

I don’t think the right solution is leaving him uncomfortable to “ figure it out “ or something because I know he’ll be super fast to get back into his old compensation patterns.

I don’t know if glue on are a long term solution, if so I’ll try even though I don’t know if I can sustain the cost.
I’m just beaten up that everyday I see him he seems miserable and has a new swollen leg or something.

[maddyiy]

I definitely want him to be comfortable long term, I just don’t know if that means trying to keep him barefoot behind.

I’m in a tricky situation in the place I live where many of the things you all mentioned previously are not available here or very very expensive and so not sustainable long term, so I have to think carefully.

I’m also not sure what peeling the layers regarding his problems exactly looks like, I’m pretty certain that I’m not comfortable with him being sore or compensating because “ like this long term he’ll be better “ ( not saying it’s what you said, it’s just what many people in my circle with certain ideas said to me recently ).

The more I go on the more I think he’s a horse that thrives in being kept a bit in his bubble, and this time I certainly didn’t do it and that’s why I feel this bad and I’m struggling.
Every time something like this happens I get genuinely scared that he’ll never be sound and pain free again.

[OverandOnward]

I am not the hoof expert, at all. I do have a horse who had a year of real problems with his feet. I have a collection of thoroughly-used glue-on shoes, hoof boots, and various styles of lighter shoes with clips and uneven wear, to help me remember. Since then, foot/hoof health is an ongoing situation for him. But that doesn’t make me an expert, just … seasoned, to a degree.

That said. In the photos with no shoes, those are very very short toes, IMO. I would expect a horse to be tender, with or without shoes. Unless this has always been the shape. By chance is this a small horse with a small foot?

To me, it looks as if the farrier went a bit extreme in shaping the foot, trying to get to an angle that is more as it “should be”. It looks as if the farrier got there by pulling the toes in hard. Again, unless this is normal for this horse for months or years. And even if so, still there isn’t a lot of foot, not a lot of developed growth of the hoof wall lower than the sole.

It is a good shape, don’t get me wrong. But the horse doesn’t have a lot of foot below the pastern. IMO.

Does this farrier believe that the sole should be in contact with the ground, by chance?

Anyway. That looks like either recent farrier work, or else the horse’s usual foot shape, would make this horse inclined to be gingerly about walking on hard ground, stony ground, etc.

Again, not an expert at all. There are many on COTH who know far more than I do about horse foot. I’d be interested in their opinions. And what your farrier has to say, OP.

[maddyiy]

The pictures without shoes are of untrimmed feet .
He did it all to himself walking, and it’s not very clear in the light but the wall on the sides is practically nonexistent and shaped like that because of how much he lost and how quick.

We literally just pulled his shoes and carefully trimmed away little pieces that fell off.
The feet got like this in two weeks in the new environment where clearly the footing was much harder than I thought and his feet very tender. So yes of course he’s sore, and his feet weren’t this tiny when I had him barefoot behind two years ago.

But he’s also not a horse with big feet especially considering that he’s not small ( he has lots of TB blood in him so maybe it’s genetics ). I’ll post a picture of him, unfortunately I don’t have really good pics of his hinds when he was barefoot.
( He was barefoot but still lame since we were figuring out things, he got sound when we shod him all around with particular care to the fronts ).

[OverandOnward]

You’ve certainly convinced me – he has to have foot protection. Ideally, imo, shoes.

But in the current photos, I wonder if there is enough hoof wall to hold a shoe. I wouldn’t want to use nails until the wall grows out more. BTDT have lots of t-shirts.

I think glue-on’s, or boots, on all 4, are where I would start. What’s really nice about the foot he has now is that it looks solid on the outside. It’s all in one piece. Not missing any big chunks, I’m not noticing major cracks.

With a caveat that I’d leave him out and allow a few months (likely, maybe weeks) to transition his feet. I think you do have a good instinct that this is much better pschologically, happiness being a horse, and for overall health. My goal would be to gradually get a healthier foot, allowing time for growth, and work toward no or minimal foot protection, while living out.

You couldn’t see this coming. I get the feeling of despair. But really it isn’t warranted, because there is a way forward. This is a transition to a better life for this horse in a more natural environment.

Boots are a good idea if they work for you. Where I was, there was a lot of grass on sandy loan soil. The boots took in a lot of sand and dirt, even with proper fit and some bandaging/tape of the top. The sand was that fine and granular that there was no sealing it out of a horse using his foot in a grazing situation and natural activity (ok running a few times a week to re-establish that he was the fastest in the herd for quality of life reasons ).

The other thing about boots is that the correct size will change as the foot grows out to a better overall shape. It is very expensive to keep buying boots that truly fit, especially for all 4 feet! The cost of boots vs glue-ons made glue-ons a better option for me.

A good thing about glue-on’s (and boots) is that, especially with a foot that limited, you can do them yourself (theoretically). With so little hoof left, honestly you can get a rasp and do the very minimum to just make it compatible with the glue-on. I actually would not want a farrier thinking they have to give me my money’s worth and rasping away at that little bit of hoof edge.

The last time I used glue-on’s was 2018, and the application may have changed a bit. However at the time, mixing the glue and getting a good seal wasn’t always easy. You have to do it on the right surface. It also left some big ugly stains on the barn floor. And your horse has to cooperate, especially if you don’t have another person to help hold.

So – if you decide on glue-on’s, read the instructions carefully, think about the best place to leave stains, and plan ahead for the details, from mixing glue to application on foot to horse behavior. Once I got the routine down I could do them by myself with reasonable efficiency.

Then, whatever is on his feet, I’d put him back out with the herd. Unless everything you put on his foot just drops off on the daily, I’d try to leave him out. If you have to occasionally tinker with boots and glue-on’s that need adjusting, or lost, that’s part of the transition process.

You already know that it could take 6 months to a year to grow out the foot as much as we want. With luck he can go back to shoes before then, BUT not if nail holes are non-conducive to a sound solid hoof as it grows out.

Here is another idea for you that isn’t ideal, when there isn’t an ideal to reach for. In periods where nothing is working, protect his feet part of the time with things like airboots (so expensive), but not necessarily all day every day, due to wear. Let him wear them when he’s most sore. Then move him to the other alternatives. With bute as needed.

[I kept a box of representative samples of all the alternatives I used on my horse’s foot for the most difficult 12 months or so. The Collection, as I call it. I like to show it to farriers. They respond with a slight indulgent grin. ]

I totally relate to the struggle! To feeling like nothing is working! Wanting the horse to be in a more natural setting where he can thrive as a horse – but then it snaps back in a body part that isn’t functioning well. We do what we can, we make the best compromise possible, in the interests of the horse. Hopefully we reach a point of maintaining on a steady routine.