:lol:
Gunnar was a QH! :lol:
Grundstein
Grundstein “cornerstone” in German…was one of Germany’s best stallions. He was powerful, his piaffe was willing and very correct and he was physically very elegant (… for those of us who bred in the late 70’s early 80’s…early warmbloods were not all that attractive) His FN indexs lead among all stallions of his age were tops for decades. In 1995 his dressage index was 178 and his jumping a very impressive 142…this years after leaving Germany.
Imported to the US and riden by Steve Kanikkeberg. The pair were very sucessful . Enroute to the 88 Pan AM games in Canada Grundstein became very ill and never returned to the US. Grundsteins crowning moment was winning the West Palm Beach Derby shortly before he died. (look for his photo winning the Derby… it is priceless!) Grundstein was leading German sire of his age in 1988, sadly after his death, with earnings to 1994 of DM 1,009,335.
I was thrilled to have discovered Grundstein standing at Winterwood in Unionville PA. I bred several mares to him and had 5 offspring from him including Grande Saber. His get were quick to mature, Saber won his breeding certificate as a 2 year old. Grundstein’s young horses matured very proportionally and were sucessful in the hunter and sporthorse breeding divisions. His influence as a grandsire was evident at Devon this week as “This is It” 2008 PHSA champion took home another blue. I have several of his granddaughters in perfromance and breeding now. The grand kids are sucessful in the hunters, are gifted jumpers and of course are brilliant in dressage. While Saber was at Blue Moon for his dressage training; Jessica R told me she could recognize a Grundstein as they entered the ring in Europe.
My impression of Grundstein at the farm (Winterwood) was complete awe! Goldfuerst was imported with Grundstein and I took miles of video of both of them. Both were willing and generous in their work, gentlemen on the ground and altogether incredible horses. They passed those traits to my horses time after time!
I found this quote regarding Grundstein on Magic Rose’s site:
Re: Grundstein
By Dr Ludwig Christmann of the Verband hannoverscher Warmblutzüchter in 1995
… So it is confirmed week by week the G-line is and will be Hanover’s performance line No. 1, the high performance ability of the legendary sires Grande and Gotthard lives on in the grandsons and granddaughters. What their secret is can hardly be fathomed: as foals descendant from the G-line may not be as eye-catching as others and show less spectacular movements. On the other hand the centre of strength in their loins is often particularly strongly marked. They have this particular strength in their backs-at the same time keeping the absolutely necessary elasticity - which is essential in both jumping and dressage horses of high levels. And character plays an important part- the willingness to perform and to make more of an effort when it really gets tough. The G- line is a treasure which is far from being discovered by many of us. When taking a look at the most sought after sires there are only a few with the initial G among them although there are quite a number of younger stallions from this line who meet higher standards regarding type and conformation. Since breeders have to produce horses which they are able to sell afterwards we appeal above all to rearers and riders to trust even more in the power of these performance genes. Seek your treasure!
Obviously I was very fortunate.
Joan Watt
formerly of Tellwynd
Anyone know what the purchase price of Grundstein would have been at that time?
What happened to Goldfuerst?
Don’t forget that Grundstein II was the damsire of Harlie Seifert’s five approved full brothers - Rubin Royal, Romanov, Rubin Action, Rubino Vincento, and Rumicello. Rubin Royal and Romanov are especially proving to be pretty nice dressage sires in their own right (and also have some youngsters “doing the hunters” here in the U.S.).
As for Goldfuerst - I believe he was owned by Ann Kitchel. I am not sure if he is still alive - he would be 30 y/o, if so. He is one example of a horse that did well as a youngster (won the Oldenburg Landeschampionat and Bundeschampionat), and continued on to compete at Grand Prix.
I can’t speak to the Gottard line but the Grande line horses are special special special. They have that “something” that draws people in. They “glow”. I swear it’s true 
They have the most amazing temperaments and intelligence. I have two babies line-bred for Grande and they are so easy to work with, so quick to learn, and so sweet that everyone, and I mean everyone, who comes in contact with them comments on them. They (and Mom, too) create a calm, safe space around them and invite you in. They have lovely soft eyes. They seem to be born trusting and are the most wonderful companions. Maybe part of it is their intelligence. They love the stimulation of interacting with their people. “People oriented” doesn’t go near to describing these guys.
And stunning movement. They float. They always have balance and great power on demand. I’m in awe every time I see them out. But I’m into powerful back-ends. When everyone else is looking at “flash” in the front, I’m looking at the back,hocks and whether those back legs are carrying :lol:.
My keeper filly has a typical older style G-line head (which I adore, BTW. I love that look) but the baby boy has a beautiful head which, truth be told, is the last thing I ever expected. My foals have OLD lines. Either one of them could have been born with the same pedigree almost 20 years ago. (Sire is 22, Dam Sire would be 29 if still alive and Dam side GrandDam would be 32)
Yes, Ann -Huntington Farm, bought Golfuerst after he stood at Winterwood. He was an wonderful sire…I bred the mare Mink & Pears later named “Silhouette” owned by Archie Leidy…this goes waaaaayyyy back huh?
I never asked how much they paid for Grundstein in Germany …I was told they had to sneak him out…and the price tag was a FORTUNE!
My first Hanoverian and the horsey love of my life was a triple G line — Gajus(a Gotthard son)/ Glander (by Grande)/ Gotthard. Bred to be a jumper, he was my dressage horse and great friend. He was willing, smart, funny and had the most lovely soft gaits. I lost him way too early. His tribute is here:
Grundstein was bought and came to the US was through Eike Von Veltheim, who had been very high up as a trainer in the Verband, Eike came to the US about the same time as Grundstein. I heard rumor that Grundstein’s sellers were never told he would be leaving Germany until after he was bought, or he would never have been allowed out of Germany. We were very lucky to have him.
I too feel very fortunate to be able to carry on his genes. Our family is very proud to have bred his son Gold Luck, and grateful that Mo had such a vision and capability to give him the opportunities he has deserved. We are very hopeful that Beste Gold will also do his family proud, given the opportunity.
So how many years did Grundstein have here to breed mares?
It would take a while before sufficient numbers of mare owners would realize who is in their midst, especially pre-internet days.
If there are few sons, how about Grundstein in the mare lines of approved stallions?
I own a Wertherson mare, whose dam Gutte Wette was by Grundstein. She is a little chestnut - far from the fanciest in my barn - but she is producing wonderful offspring. They are consistently tall, with very good substance and real improvements over her. :yes:
Fidelio
Mary Lou,
I am very good friends with the gal who bought your Fidelio and I saw him the exact moment he got off the truck! What a wonderful, gorgeous boy! He showed up in great shape, he was quiet and took it all in, and I assure you, he is in excellent hands!
Lori
www.foxdalefarm.us
a Grundstein story
When Grundstein stood at Winterwood Farm, I was in the early days of my breeding career. I made an appointment with Steve Kinnikeburg (sp?) to see him. Steve took him out in his bridle and trotted him for me down the pathways. Then Steve and I got to talking for quite a while. Grundstein stood there the whole time, well behaved and still. Steve told me he had just started schooling passage and piaffe. He offered to show me. I said “No, don’t bother to saddle him just to show me.”. Steve just threw the reins over his neck, mounted him bareback and passaged down the pathway, piaffed and passaged back to me- and it was a really super passage and piaffe! I decided right then to breed my mares to him, which I did for years until Grundstein’s untimely death. When Gold Luck came into my life, it was the continuation of my adoration of this line. If I were a Bedoin, Gold luck would live in my tent. He is an amazing animal that I have been priveledged to own.
1 Like
[QUOTE=Donella;4128396]
The Hanoverian verband is now trying to stimulate breeders to revive the G line by offering advertising incentives ect. From what I understand, the line is starting to get pretty rare as these G line horses are not often “foal makers” and if you are breeding to sell foals (as alot of people do), it can be harder. Lots of athletes from this line though, it would be a real shame for it to be lost.[/QUOTE]
The Hanoverian Verband only has itself to blame. They threw away most of their jumping blood lines when they chose to become a dressage breed back in the late 80’s and early 90’s. The G line and the E and S lines were great jumper producer lines. But they got abandoned when the farmers chose to chase the auction dressage $ horses.
And it is tough to go back and try to pick this back up again. An old German breeder friend of mine would always say, “one generation of dressage blood in a five generation jumping pedigree is one generation too much”.
However, their jumping program does appear to be coming back due in large part to the long list of outside stallions that are part of their current program. Hopefully they will establish new jumper lines. For example, Contendro-a Holsteiner-has been an excellent producer for them.
What a neat story, Mo.
How is the old man doing?
[QUOTE=Oakstable;4131615]
What a neat story, Mo.
How is the old man doing?[/QUOTE]
He is doing super at 22 years young. He still teases all of the mares, is sound as a dollar, and he still thinks he is the Main Man, even with three other stallions on the farm. His semen still looks good, he is getting his mares pregnant, and he is so well behaved, I can collect him in 1/2 hour by myself. Thanks for asking!
Oh my gosh, Foxdale! That is so cool! Please give him some hugs and scratches and carrot bits from me. We miss the beautiful boy back here.
Mo, I remember when Grundstein showed down here. He had a superb piaffe and passage and was a very charismatic and well behaved fellow. What a neat story about Steve showing you his p&p bareback.
I have always been a fan of G Line mares. I owned two by Grusus (one of them was my very best friend and is still sadly missed). Currently, I am VERY fortunate to own Gold Luck’s full sister, EM Graphitti-there is not a kinder mare alive! Mo happens to own one of the fillies she produced, I have her full brother here, they are different in type from GL-more rangy instead of the usual “round” version and very light in type, not at all old fashioned. I also own a Gold Luck daughter (who is about to have a foal-any minute) she could jump the moon! All of them have been incredibily intelligent, fun to ride and versatile in jumping as well as dressage.
When I got my first mare I found out immediately how slow they are to mature. I never thought it was a bad thing and was happy about it as I think we tend to rush our horses, she definitely taught me to be more patient with youngsters. I was told that when Graphitti was started as a 3 year old, everytime they put a bridle on her she would fall asleep-it worked for her, they waited to put her through her MPT at 4 instead.
When I was in Germany I asked Ludwig about the G line and he said “you can never go wrong with a G line mare”.
I know I never have.
I just spotted Grundstein in the dam line of Donner Bube up in Canada.
Wasn’t there Grundstein 1 and II?
[QUOTE=Oakstable;4131951]
Wasn’t there Grundstein 1 and II?[/QUOTE]
yes, and I, born in '75, came to the US in 1984 and bred until 1989. II, born in '79, was always in Germany.
