What is the purpose of "Big Lick" Walking Horses?

I grew up close to the epicenter of Big Lick show horses before soring became well known and was vilified, as it richly deserved. What you may not see in the videos of these Big Lick horses is how powerful the running walk was and how fast. Now it looks distorted and painful but in those days it was crowd-thrilling and magnificent.

TWH are naturally docile and work hard to please. They REALLY put on a show.

Those days are gone now, thank God, but the horses, trying so hard to please and being in pain the whole time, looking back it wrings my heart for them.

[QUOTE=Malda;8913266]
That’s good to hear. Unfortunately, it’s going to be a long time before the breed recovers because running walk has been bred out in favor of the pace. So many owners don’t even know what a running walk is anymore.[/QUOTE]

I don’t find that to be true at all. It’s a crap shoot in a relatively small gene pool.

I have some talented, modern bred TWHs that didn’t make the cut as they are ‘too natural’ and didn’t take to being paced out, it made them too square moving… Are their some lines that just pace? Maybe. But I’ve had no trouble finding really talented young horses that are more walky than pacey.

I grew up with what, at the time, was called Plantation walking horses(don’t know if that’s still a term or not).

They were flat shod and the shoes could only be so thick to minimize the amount of weight. I don’t think pads of any kind could be used. No action devices could be used in the show ring and the horses legs had to be clean, no scars, sores, missing hair, etc.
I vividly remember we couldn’t use Koppertox if a show horse had thrush as it would leave a stain on the hoof.

We did use light weight boots and chains on some horses during training but they didn’t slap up and down and there were no chemicals underneath. They gave just enough weight to make pacey horses stay on the proper stride. No horse ever showed signs of distress by their use.

They were wonderful horses, kind and gentle. I would love to get a walking horse like that when I get ready to have horses again. Nothing quite like riding at a nice running walk, gliding along as the horse nods its head and, sometimes, waggles its ears and clicks its teeth to the rhythm.

I don’t know much about Big Lick horses but I am against the cruel practices they employ.

[QUOTE=jdobbs64;8913662]
I don’t find that to be true at all. It’s a crap shoot in a relatively small gene pool.

I have some talented, modern bred TWHs that didn’t make the cut as they are ‘too natural’ and didn’t take to being paced out, it made them too square moving… Are their some lines that just pace? Maybe. But I’ve had no trouble finding really talented young horses that are more walky than pacey.[/QUOTE]

Then you’ve been very lucky. In over 20 years I’ve seen one TWH do a very nice running walk, everything else paces. Nothing personal, but I’ve learned to be very skeptical when people say their Walker gaits, 99% of the time the horse paces. So I don’t believe anything unless I see a video.

[QUOTE=Malda;8913844]
Then you’ve been very lucky. In over 20 years I’ve seen one TWH do a very nice running walk, everything else paces. Nothing personal, but I’ve learned to be very skeptical when people say their Walker gaits, 99% of the time the horse paces. So I don’t believe anything unless I see a video.[/QUOTE]

Forgive my naive question, but what are the “true” gaits a TWH is supposed to possess?

Walk, running walk, trot, rack, canter? I’m honestly curious. A few months ago I got to go on a trail ride with my cousin, who loaned me a TWH that boarded at her barn. I’m pretty sure that guy had a running walk, as mentioned above, it felt like I was getting a back rub as we cruised along. Wonderful! We started moving faster, and he “shifted gears” and I honestly couldn’t tell if we were trotting, pacing, or gaiting. According to my cousin, if I bounced at all, it wasn’t a true gait :lol:.

[QUOTE=Sunsets;8913871]
Forgive my naive question, but what are the “true” gaits a TWH is supposed to possess?

Walk, running walk, trot, rack, canter? I’m honestly curious. A few months ago I got to go on a trail ride with my cousin, who loaned me a TWH that boarded at her barn. I’m pretty sure that guy had a running walk, as mentioned above, it felt like I was getting a back rub as we cruised along. Wonderful! We started moving faster, and he “shifted gears” and I honestly couldn’t tell if we were trotting, pacing, or gaiting. According to my cousin, if I bounced at all, it wasn’t a true gait :lol:.[/QUOTE]

My understanding is that these are running walks, what the breed is supposed to do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAFEB1KEPxQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmExC0boot4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jemq7dw3eBY

Personally, I think if you’re just riding for pleasure it really doesn’t matter what the horse does, as long as its smooth, and not pacing. :slight_smile: However most people I know who ride pacing horses find it to be smooth, I don’t. I can post on a pacing horse.

[QUOTE=Sunsets;8913871]
Forgive my naive question, but what are the “true” gaits a TWH is supposed to possess?

The Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders and Exhibitors Association, founded in about 1936, has NEVER had a formal breed standard. It has had gait standards, show standards, judging standards, and some others but never a breed standard. This was because the Association was designed to bring under “one roof” a variety of styles of gaited horses that were all related but not all the same.

The reasons for this are long and complex and have to do with culture, economics, politics, and demographics. If you want to know about the times that produced the Walker read Samuel Elliot Morrison’s Oxford History of the American People, the sections that cover the period from about 1830 to about 1935. Then read The Echo of Hoofbeats by Dr. Bob Womak. If you want to put some “frosting” on this pretty substantial cake read A Biography of the Tennessee Walking Horse by Ben Green.

Walk, running walk, trot, rack, canter? I’m honestly curious. A few months ago I got to go on a trail ride with my cousin, who loaned me a TWH that boarded at her barn. I’m pretty sure that guy had a running walk, as mentioned above, it felt like I was getting a back rub as we cruised along. Wonderful! We started moving faster, and he “shifted gears” and I honestly couldn’t tell if we were trotting, pacing, or gaiting. According to my cousin, if I bounced at all, it wasn’t a true gait :lol:.[/QUOTE]

Here is the TWHBEA description of gaits:

http://www.twhbea.com/gaits.htm

It is defective from the get-go because it says the horse has three gaits: flat walk, running walk, and canter. The deep thinkers from Lewisburg forgot the most important gait of all: the walk (sometimes called the “dog walk,” “plain walk,” etc.). Sadly, the examples they use are Big Lick (demonstrating the mindset of the TWHBEA senior management).

Oh, and they also forgot the gallop. :wink:

A better description is here:

http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/RWbyLiz/RWGait.shtml

As with any description one can “pick some nits” but overall it’s really quite good and reasonably easy to understand.

The true running walk is neither lateral nor diagonal; it is centered. That means foot pickup and fall are “isochronal” (evenly timed). This is a very easy gait to ride because it’s nothing more than a normal walk sped up and there is always multiple leg support. The difference between the “flat foot walk” and the “running walk” is speed. The “cadence” (steps per minute) is faster and the stride slightly longer. But the form, and the isochronal timing, is the same.

The running walk is NOT a speed gait. It’s a distance gait. Because it’s just a walk with more steps per minute it’s easy on the horse. A standard walk is about 4 mph. The flat walk will be 6-8 mph. The running walk maybe up to 10 mph. Beyond that the horse will begin to lose form and will either move to the pace or the trot, depending on conformation and breeding. The canter will run as most horses will. Same for the gallop.

The running walk is NOT a “flashy” gait. It’s an example of high quality, efficient movement. Once you start to emphasize “front end action” to try and mimic an ASB (which is what the Big Lick at its core is) then you introduce gross inefficiency of motion and needless expenditure of energy. This is a non-issue for a human in the saddle but is a truly big deal for the horse under the saddle.

If you want to see an example of these gaits properly done Google “Strolling Jim.” He was the first TWH World Grand Champion and does the gaits correctly.

Someone put up a u-tube of gaits over the years. I looked at it and it’s reasonably accurate.

The Walker (and our breed, the Marchador) is a “road horse.” It was designed to get comfortably from Point A to Point B. In the Americas during the Age of Horsepower that often meant travel on roads that were little more than frontier tracks. The ability to jump a log or a washout or move laterally from a snake or feral dog or subsist on poor quality forage was highly prized in a soft gaited horse. Can they do other things, like work cows or pull carts or or plow fields? Indeed they can! There are better options for some of these tasks but if you can only afford one or two horses you need versatility vice specialization.

The Big Lick is, in many ways, the evil, mirror image of what a Walker ought to be. For that reason alone those who created it and defend it ought to be held in the highest contempt by any genuine horseman, no matter what breed they might favor.

G.

https://youtu.be/IzkO9XRH1dY

Anita Howe has a nice set of videos on a variety of horses.

Have to totally agree with your assessment, Guilherme. But, of course, one doesn’t have to know much about TWH gaits to despise “Big Lick.” (Sigh)

Many years ago, when my mom took us to visit a friend of hers in Utah, we went to visit the friend’s uncle, who raised TWH. He invited me on a trail ride. He grabbed two mares out of his pasture, saddle them up (western, walking horse type curb bit), and off we went. We rode for several hours through the Wasatch Mtns. Lovely ride, calm horse (we had to ride through a housing development to get to the trails), and when we hit a fairly level stretch, he said “let’s go,” and off we went at a running walk, and as you say, it wasn’t that showy or fast - just covered ground smoothly at a good rate for quite a distance.

After we got back, I thanked him, and he said, “You’re welcome. I’m really proud of that little mare. That’s the second time she’s been ridden.” Say Whaaaaaaa? “The first time was six months ago.” Okaaaay.

Wish I could transfer THAT disposition into my somewhat spooky Araloosa!!! ROFLOL

[QUOTE=Bluey;8911349]

Mind you, those gaited horses, Big Lick or little lick type other similar ones, to me, coming from the English riding world, were also very off-putting, when I first saw some three and five gaited classes, at the National in Madison Square Garden, the best of such horses there.[/QUOTE]

Those would not have been big lick walking horses. The National in Madison Square Garden had Saddlebred classes. 3 gaited and 5 gaited saddlebreds. They all must show at a trot.

Apples and oranges.

[QUOTE=Sunsets;8913871]
Forgive my naive question, but what are the “true” gaits a TWH is supposed to possess?

Walk, running walk, trot, rack, canter? I’m honestly curious. A few months ago I got to go on a trail ride with my cousin, who loaned me a TWH that boarded at her barn. I’m pretty sure that guy had a running walk, as mentioned above, it felt like I was getting a back rub as we cruised along. Wonderful! We started moving faster, and he “shifted gears” and I honestly couldn’t tell if we were trotting, pacing, or gaiting. According to my cousin, if I bounced at all, it wasn’t a true gait :lol:.[/QUOTE]

Roan Allen could do running walk, flat walk, rack, amble, fox trot, fox walk, trot, and maybe more. I have read that he could do seven different gaits.

[QUOTE=RPM;8915450]
Roan Allen could do running walk, flat walk, rack, amble, fox trot, fox walk, trot, and maybe more. I have read that he could do seven different gaits.[/QUOTE]

I’ve read nine! :slight_smile:

This clearly demonstrates that the roots of the modern Walker like is a very confused and varied set of horses.

They were very good horses for the time and place of their development. But they lost their jobs after WWI as the South modernized and motorized transport grew. That loss of employment had dire consequences for the breed.

G.

[QUOTE=RPM;8915450]
Roan Allen could do running walk, flat walk, rack, amble, fox trot, fox walk, trot, and maybe more. I have read that he could do seven different gaits.[/QUOTE]

Back in 1891 when the National Saddle Horse (now Saddlebred) Breeders Assoc was formed, they accepted horses based on approval and they must exhibit at least five gaits to be registered. The three “regular” gaits, walk trot, canter and any two saddle gaits. Many of the foundation horses ended up recorded also as Walking Horse, Standardbred or Morgan sires. Some of the foundation stallions were recorded with seven gaits as the variety of saddle gaits were very important back then to any one using these horses over the road.

For years, the Saddlebred show ring “slow gait” could be any of the three slow gaits - Running Walk, Fox Trot or Stepping Pace but nowadays only the Stepping Pace is used in the Saddlebred show ring and the running walk stock diverted off to the walking lines and the fox trotters diverged as well.

[QUOTE=Amwrider;8915168]
Those would not have been big lick walking horses. The National in Madison Square Garden had Saddlebred classes. 3 gaited and 5 gaited saddlebreds. They all must show at a trot.

Apples and oranges.[/QUOTE]

Sure, but when you have not seen any of those before, they all seem very … strange.

BUMP!

Just found this on YouTube, for anyone with 30min to kill - very interesting :yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNnCQNpStx4

[QUOTE=2DogsFarm;8915746]
BUMP!

Just found this on YouTube, for anyone with 30min to kill - very interesting :yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNnCQNpStx4[/QUOTE]

Great video! Shows that the TWH was once a true “glide ride”. Those horses have such nice, square walks.

[QUOTE=RPM;8911319]
The purpose of Big Lick horses is competition among a thankfully very small group of TWH owners, breeders, and exhibitors mostly in in the middle Tennessee area. They want that Big Lick stride because it has become, for them, a tradition in itself. Back in the '40s Midnight Sun had a gait that other trainers wanted their own horses to emulate. If the horses could not do it naturally, or by training, they were forced into a grotesque mockery of it with pads, chains, and other “devices.” It is like people wanting to do dressage but not having a horse with natural ability or good training (and not having it themselves), so they invest in flash straps, Rollkur, saddles with deep seats and thigh and knee blocks to force their legs into a “correct” position. Except that they are doing that of their own free will and it isn’t [usually] painful. The Big Lick trainers are doing it to their horses and it is very painful and crippling.

And, like another poster has said here, it is like the GSD slant-back, bent leg stance and gait.

There is no legitimate purpose for the Big Lick gait. It did not exist with I was a child (and I was born after Midnight Sun).

I wish Merry Go Boy had been as popular. He was an equally good horse but for some reason Midnight Sun was the one people focused on and tried to mimic.

ETA: I just saw an online article that says Talk of the Town, a son of Midnight Sun, was the horse with the exaggerated gait that came to be copied as “Big Lick.” Since Talk of the Town was a gelding, people could not breed from him for the gait, so I guess they had to try it artificially.[/QUOTE]

I can tell you why Merry Go Boy didn’t take off as much (though he did a lot) as MS. He was bad tempered. Midnight Sun was good tempered and passed that on to his get.

TWH were originially a dual purpose horse-easy to ride all day long and flashy on Sunday.