What makes a good trainer?

[centaursam]

Admittedly, I’ve been fairly lousy at picking trainers since I started riding. I blame myself, but the wasted time is hard to get over.

I’m yet again in search of a new trainer and in all honesty, at this point, I have no idea what to look for in terms of assessing how good a trainer is.

This begs the seemingly stupid question of what makes a good equestrian trainer? Or how does one identify a good equestrian trainer?

I know what I like in a teacher/trainer/instructor regardless of subject matter:

-Attention to detail
-Honest, direct, blunt
-Disciplined/regimented training with goals/standards
-Willing to test/push my limits
-Doesn’t let mistakes, improper form, etc. slip by

These are all arguably interpersonal qualities not necessarily unique to instruction but in all instances where I was learning something under the tutelage of someone else and I progressed and enjoyed the process, these qualities were evident.

I think we can all agree that experience in the saddle doesn’t necessarily equate to being a good instructor. So if any of you can help point me in the right direction on what to look for in terms of competence and quality of trainer, I would be very appreciative.

[Always_WIP]

Honestly, I think folks are best served by looking inwards first before looking for a trainer.

What are your goals? Do you want to be competitive on the A circuit or do you want to do local shows? Are you jumping 3’6 or 2’? Are you ambitious and looking to be competitive or do you want to just enjoy horses? Do you have your own horse or do you need school horses? If you don’t have a horse, are you planning to lease or buy within the next year? If you have a horse, are you planning to put it in partial training? What kinds of things have past instructors done that haven’t worked for you? Do you prefer a certain type of instruction? Is it important that the barn become a “family”? Are you ok in a program that focuses a lot on juniors or would you prefer a barn that’s mostly adults? Do you want “full service” including tacking you before lessons so you can drop by for a quick lesson after work or do you like to do your own horse care? Are you self sufficient or do you prefer to be in a program that perhaps provides more guidance, but it also means they’ll want things done their way?

And most importantly of all, where do you want your riding to be in a year and what restrictions do you have? Do you travel for multiple weeks a year and need a barn that’s more flexible with scheduling? Do you have kids whose schedules you need to work around? Does your budget fit your goals or do you need to compromise? Do you live in an area where you have options? Do you only have specific days/times available for lessons?

I recently did the trainer search. I am an adult with no children and a fixed schedule. I do not own a horse but am looking to buy soon. In the meantime I plan to continue to lease. Since I am looking to buy sooner rather than later, wherever I move to needed to still allow me to save towards a new horse. It’s important to me that whoever I ride with continues their own education, and brings in outside instructors on a regular basis. I want to see happy and healthy horses doing their job well. If a horse is slightly off, I want the trainer to acknowledge it and take appropriate action. I want the instruction to be productive but not rude or demoralizing. I prefer to ride in smaller programs as I love the “barn family” element and I feel that gets lost in the larger barns. I want to ride somewhere where the riders encourage one another - not tear each other down or talk behind people’s backs.

I visited multiple programs. One was absolutely lovely but there was no flexibility with scheduling and no makeups allowed. It was also more expensive and required a year commitment. Loved the program, but couldn’t make it pencil out so I kept looking.

Another program had good instruction but no horses available for lease and while the horses were all in great shape the barn and equipment was really dirty and I knew it would drive me crazy. I’m the type of person that washes my saddle pads at maximum every two rides.

The third program was fine, but it just didn’t click for me. The fourth program just fit, and is where I moved to. I’ve found that with barns the right places just click.

So, I think before you start looking at barns its.critical to do some self-reflection. That way you can immediately narrow down your list of potential barns, as well as ask the right questions in order to find the proper fit.

As for general quality of trainer questions - that’s tough. My first criteria is - do they have student riding at the levels I want to ride at, and are they better riders than me? (They should be Are those student progressing? Are the horses approaching the fences correctly or are they running each fence down? Can the trainer break down and explain concepts? Can they find the positives in a bad ride while also providing valuable feedback for improvement? Do they have a good attention to detail and having their students repeat certain parts of their course to fine tune or are they just saying “that was good”. Are they professional or are they bad mouthing their students? Are they concerned about their students goals and how to help them get there? Are they doing their own “continuing education” with other trainers or clinicians? Are they very black and white about things such as their discipline being the only one that does it right, or do they recognize that you can learn something from every discipline? Are their horses happy and healthy, or do they seem to have a lot of issues? Do they know the purpose of the equipment they’re using (martingales, draw reins, etc).

Once you determine what you want, your dealbreakers and what you can compromise on, put together a list of barns and just start calling them. Some will want to chat about their program over the phone while others want you to come watch a few lessons and chat then. Honestly, I’ve found once I chat to them for a while and watch a lesson or two I know whether it’s a good fit. It’s usually easy to weed out the bad ones, and the ones that may be a good program but not a good fit are the ones that make me go “hmm” and I don’t have that instant “yes, sign me up!l

[Equkelly]

I think it totally depends on what your goals and needs are. If you’re wanting to get to the top level in a specific discipline you’re going to want different qualifications than someone who’s just looking to be a better trail rider. So without knowing your needs it’s hard to say but I can easily think of a few warning signs that would make me run away fast no matter what my needs were.

1. They don’t continue their own education, host clinics, or attend and they frown upon their students receiving any sort of education outside their training.
2. They have almost no other clients besides you. If you’re one of the only clients, RUN. It’s not because “no one else knows about them” it’s because everyone else wised up. If your local hire community avoids a certain trainer like the plague, there’s a reason.
3. They are the “head trainer” and they’re like 17 years old. Nope. Bye. Some young people can make wonderful assistant trainers but only under the supervision of someone who actually knows what they’re doing.
4. Poor sportsmanship. If your trainer is always whining about how “horse shows are too political” run. It can be true to an extent but if you’re consistently not placing at a local unrated show, it’s not because of politics it’s because you can’t ride as well as you think.
5. They bounce around from barn to barn and can’t seem to stay anywhere for more than a year.
6. They act like they are gods gift to the horse world.

7. Being unprofessional.
8. Belittling you.
9. Lying.

10. This ties into the other ones but personally, any time a trainer has a huge ego, I avoid them. Those personalities tend to be cruel to both horses and students because narcissistic people don’t empathize with others. Someone once told me that the best riders you’ll ever meet dont act like the best riders because they know they have nothing to prove. There’s confidence and then there’s arrogance.

[gertie06]

Here’s my suggestion.

Look for suggestions and referrals. Look for programs where the students are successful, and where they STAY for years.

We can talk about good trainer qualities all day long, but the proof is in the pudding. Good trainers make happy, successful, loyal clients. Look for those clients and you’ll find a good trainer :).

[Foxglove]

I have worked with possibly 10-15 trainers/instructors in the past 50 years of horse ownership. My list of requirements is short.

First: Safety. Is the trainer keeping me and my horse safe during lessons (helmets, equipment, suggestions, methods, facility) should all be safe).

Second: I look at results. There are many people who call themselves trainers who have been in the business for years (around here, anyway). However, one never sees their results in the show ring or performance arena. A couple had great horses in the past (one farm is even named after the one super horse), but that was it. For me, if you are going to advertise yourself as a trainer/instructor, you should be able to show what you, your students or your horses, have accomplished recently. The last three trainer/instructors we used and the one I currently use, are “in the ring” with a horse themselves --at some level --although one does more judging than riding, he still goes into competition one or two times a year at a pretty high level.

The third requirement I have is relationship. If the student doesn’t like/respect the trainer, there really is no point in continuing. My grand daughter’s trainer/instructor was absolutely great with her --motivated her, encouraged her, always knew what to say when she was upset by her own performance. Both my husband and I found him to be name-dropping, pompous, and well, not someone we liked particularly. However, we both agreed that the important thing was his results (he had horses and students going at all levels, doing well) and that Grand Daughter LOVED going there each week for her lesson for the 10 years she was showing.

Of course there are other things too --but most of those I will overlook for the top three --lateness is annoying, but horses are horses and one can’t always count on being on time client or trainer —sloppy lessons — we had one trainer who “kind of forgot” what had been covered previously —for awhile, I “helped” by clearly saying --“GD has worked on posting since last week’s lesson, I hope we’ll be moving past that soon.” --but ultimately, we left that barn. Creepiness of any kind is a no-go ----one trainer went to my daughter’s boarding school in the next town to “discuss becoming a professional rider,” with his help —dropped him right there -that was inappropriate (school called me to see if he could talk with her --their policy when a non-parent wants to speak to a child on campus).

Finally --there should be progress —I need to see progress in myself or my horses.

Good topic!

[Redlei44]

The challenging part is that there is no “central database” of trainers to research and there are no certification programs to look for. Furthermore, there are trainers that have loyal clientele that others wouldn’t go near; ask two horsepeople for an opinion and the only thing they’ll agree on is that the third person is wrong:-). Then there’s the infuriating reality that some very good trainers are so, so bad at answering their phone or email. Or even worse, they don’t have decent info about themselves or their program posted anywhere.

Best bet is to get references from others who know the area and who know what you want and need from a program. No use getting reccs for lovely self-care boarding barns! You also might think about how you ended up with your current and previous trainers - were they literally the only one who quickly returned your phone call? Did you accurately represent yourself to them, and did they accurately represent themselves to you? Did you grill them on their lesson horses and their teaching philosophies?

Also be honest with yourself at this point; you need an excellent program for your current situation. A program that fits your current skill level, your current budget, and your current time availability. Not an AA wannabe program that talks a good game but doesn’t give you a good foundation.

[meupatdoes]

If you’re looking at showing, one thing I look for is what the horses sell for out of their program. Not what do the clients buy them for, but what do other people pay for them.

If you are trying to compete, look for a trainer whose training product is something other competitors will pay good money for.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

I strongly value experience. You are getting to the point in your riding where you may be leasing or buying a horse in the near future-- you want a trainer who is seasoned enough to understand the business side of running a training program, who has “been there done that” with vet checks and negotiations, and who has plenty of connections in the local horse scene. I’d also look for a trainer with a loyal following of amateur adult students who achieve a reasonable degree of success on the local/regional show circuit. (Showing isn’t everything, of course, but it would be a rough indicator that the trainer is managing to instill decent equitation and ensuring his/her students are on reasonably behaved mounts).

[anon510129]

My requirements (in no particular order) are:

Ӣ Professionalism (on time, turn out of themselves & standards for the barn)
”¢ Horse care in & out of the tack. I don’t “do” abuse or lack of attention to detail
Ӣ Organization. Being on time for lessons, for example. & holding others to the same standards
”¢ fairness. Don’t treat some clients differently than other for anything reason.

[Foitin]

1. Results
2. Excellent care of horses: they look happy and sound, have turnout, are fed good quality hay and grain, are not pounded daily (but perform well in the ring)
3. Trainer is not a known jerk or liar
4. You can afford it

[lintesia]

SO many great examples in the posts above!

To me, what starts to set some trainers apart is their ability to make me feel safe at all times. Not by dumbing down the program, but by adjusting the teaching/training to the moment. For the rider, we’re told “Ride the horse you have.” The trainer needs to also take on, “Teach the rider you have.” I’ve especially appreciated the trainers who make me feel safe moving up from 3’ to 3’3"; tackling the difficult track for the bending line; coping with the horse that comes out fresh and makes me nervous. I think it’s that last one that really makes me value the trainer – the one who can take the situation that makes the ammy me nervous (fresh horse!) and turn it into a positive ride, rather than a default lunge (sometimes that’s required, of course!) or having the trainer get on to work through the issues.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@lintesia

SO many great examples in the posts above!

To me, what starts to set some trainers apart is their ability to make me feel safe at all times. Not by dumbing down the program, but by adjusting the teaching/training to the moment. For the rider, we’re told “Ride the horse you have.” The trainer needs to also take on, “Teach the rider you have.” I’ve especially appreciated the trainers who make me feel safe moving up from 3’ to 3’3"; tackling the difficult track for the bending line; coping with the horse that comes out fresh and makes me nervous. I think it’s that last one that really makes me value the trainer – the one who can take the situation that makes the ammy me nervous (fresh horse!) and turn it into a positive ride, rather than a default lunge (sometimes that’s required, of course!) or having the trainer get on to work through the issues.

Oh, that reminds me… a trainer must be willing and able to get on the students’ horses. My daughter’s first trainer got to the point where she didn’t ride herself, and that meant (1) she couldn’t feel what my daughter was feeling and (2) she couldn’t hop on to do an impromptu school if the horse was misbehaving. I realize this may be less necessary with advanced students but it made a huge difference for my daughter.

[centaursam]

Some great advice here, thank you all

I definitely haven’t done my part to vet trainers in the past. I initially went with whomever was accessible at the time and only asked for referrals in a very nonchalant way. I didn’t grill them or inquire as to their experience, training style/methods, students, etc. I also didn’t properly represent myself to them as @Redlei44 mentioned. I foolishly assumed they’d somehow pick up on the vibe that I was a disciplined person who was interested in more than just walk/trot/canter and taking pictures for Instagram. In short, I blindly walked into things expecting them to kind of just materialize if I put in the time and effort.

Something I would absolutely appreciate is a trainer sitting down and having a conversation with me before any lessons or agreements happen. I’ve never had anyone ask me what my riding experience has been thus far, what my short and long term goals in riding are, what I aspire to as a rider, etc. While the onus is on me to project a serious demeanor, my past initial interactions with trainers have been akin to: “How long have you been riding? Great, sign this waiver and hop on”.

[gertie06]

@centaursam

Some great advice here, thank you all

Something I would absolutely appreciate is a trainer sitting down and having a conversation with me before any lessons or agreements happen. I’ve never had anyone ask me what my riding experience has been thus far, what my short and long term goals in riding are, what I aspire to as a rider, etc. While the onus is on me to project a serious demeanor, my past initial interactions with trainers have been akin to: “How long have you been riding? Great, sign this waiver and hop on”.

Geez, if you ever find this, let me know. I never have. If I were a trainer, we’d be having conversations about short-term and long-term goals. Otherwise, how do you know if you’re helping your student achieve?

[centaursam]

@gertie06

Geez, if you ever find this, let me know. I never have. If I were a trainer, we’d be having conversations about short-term and long-term goals. Otherwise, how do you know if you’re helping your student achieve?

Glad to hear I’m not the only one who hasn’t encountered this :lol: I agree with you. How can you assess your student if you’ve got no idea what they want to accomplish and what kind of experience they have?

[Jackie_Cochran]

Since I was diagnosed with MS the four stables I’ve ridden at have ALL asked me how much riding I’ve done.

My riding teacher asked that, then she asked me what was the most advanced thing that I had done in those decades.

She then put me on the best horse I’ve ever ridden, an Arabian gelding, challenging yes, but he took very good care of me. He never gave me more than I could handle as long as I did not hurt him. He had a super-sensitive mouth and did not like rude riders. I behaved on his back and he behaved under me.

I was in worse condition with my MS back then. I NEEDED to ride to get physically better. Due to all the riding and my lessons I can move more securely even though my balance is worse. Nowadays my riding teacher is pretty confident that I can handle some of the horses that don’t have this deep desire to take care of me.

I respect my riding teacher greatly. I was really lucky to find her.

[Dutchmare433]

@centaursam

Some great advice here, thank you all

I definitely haven’t done my part to vet trainers in the past. I initially went with whomever was accessible at the time and only asked for referrals in a very nonchalant way. I didn’t grill them or inquire as to their experience, training style/methods, students, etc. I also didn’t properly represent myself to them as @Redlei44 mentioned. I foolishly assumed they’d somehow pick up on the vibe that I was a disciplined person who was interested in more than just walk/trot/canter and taking pictures for Instagram. In short, I blindly walked into things expecting them to kind of just materialize if I put in the time and effort.

Something I would absolutely appreciate is a trainer sitting down and having a conversation with me before any lessons or agreements happen. I’ve never had anyone ask me what my riding experience has been thus far, what my short and long term goals in riding are, what I aspire to as a rider, etc. While the onus is on me to project a serious demeanor, my past initial interactions with trainers have been akin to: “How long have you been riding? Great, sign this waiver and hop on”.

Trainer here–I ask all of these questions before I teach new students. The questions are a bit different if it’s someone taking lessons on a school horse vs their own horse. I try to ask in a general/tactful way about learning disabilities or physical issues that might alter teaching strategy. Particularly if you’re taking lessons on someone else’s horses, I can’t imagine putting a student on before getting their background?

[Equkelly]

@centaursam

Something I would absolutely appreciate is a trainer sitting down and having a conversation with me before any lessons or agreements happen. I’ve never had anyone ask me what my riding experience has been thus far, what my short and long term goals in riding are, what I aspire to as a rider, etc. While the onus is on me to project a serious demeanor, my past initial interactions with trainers have been akin to: “How long have you been riding? Great, sign this waiver and hop on”.

In fairness I would say LOTS of people are delusional about their abilities and exaggerate their experience. So a whole conversation about where people are in their riding can be pretty useless. I’ve just seen so many times where people roll up to a new lesson barn and say “hi yes I’m currently jumping 4’12 and breaking 17.6hh horses ever since I could walk and think that such BS qualifies them to get on the nicest horses and start jumping a full course.

Obviously that’s an extreme example but there’s so much variation in lesson barns. At one barn you could be riding greenies and jumping 3’6 courses regularly but if you get to another barn and another trainer feels that you have serious gaps in your riding abilities, they’re going to spend lots of time doing wtc and flatwork to fill in those gaps before you’re allowed to be doing what you were. It’s not because no ones listening to your goals, it’s just because there can be a bit of time from when you and the trainer are on the same page about where you are.

[OverandOnward]

All the above, and … before I look at the above, I assess the other boarders and students, and how the facilities and the daily routine are managed. If the boarders/students are the kind of people and riders I’ll enjoy being around, then I’m ready to go the next step and find out more about the trainer personally.

The boarders/students are selected by the barn management, and will be a reflection of the barn management. If they are inconsistent in type and expectations, so is the management.

It is so important to be comfortable with the other boarders and students, and that they are comfortable with you.

What’s really important: It’s not rational to expect that a barn culture and facilities will morph to match a rider. It will happen the other way around.

It is amazing what the local horse community can know about what a barn program is really about, if you can find and talk to the people who are involved and friendly with many others in the community. Most people are happy to tell all to anyone who will ask and listen.

What I think is the most critical factor, that brings out the truth about the trainer and management: Who is in the barn program as boarders and students, what do they do there, and how well do they do it? Doesn’t matter what the trainer’s bona fides include, if the barn is all slow-speed trail riders of a certain age, that is what the vibe, the facilities, and the instruction will lean toward. That’s fine if that’s what the new boarder wants to do. The tack room may have framed photos of 5* eventing from years ago, but the barn as it is today is the one we’ll be living with.

On the other hand, if most of the riders are competing at the top of their divisions, earning year-end championships and aiming to move up, this is going to be a high-energy barn expecting motivated and ambitious riders. That will be the way the boarders/riders converse and the way the horses are managed. Decisions and schedules will be oriented around the shows this barn regularly attends.

And so on.

A barn is a community. It has a culture, and innate, unspoken expectations.

Every group will have an energy level, and if it doesn’t match yours, you will never really be comfortable there. There are relaxed, moderate and high energy groups. The overall energy level is one of the strongest elements of any barn culture, and it is the one that will make a fellow boarder feel comfortable, or pressured to do more than they wish, or held back from doing all that they wish. The feeling will evolve from interactions with both management and other boarders/students, and from the availability of necessary facilities and features.

Look at the facilities. If the barn claims to be for general English riding, but everything is dressage and the jumps are never out, the flow is toward dressage, not jumping. On the other hand, if the jumps and poles are scattered everywhere and the dressage riders are regularly complaining about not having a ring clear for them, that’s probably going to be an ongoing struggle for dressage riding. Etc. with different disciplines in the barn.

The facilities - the barn, arena, jumps or other equipment, pasture and lawn, even the wash stall - can be a sign of the culture, energy level and focus of a barn. If everything is reasonably tidy and buttoned-up on a daily basis, the stalls cleaned, the horses fed on time, the jumps maintained, the arenas dragged and the riding fields mowed, there will be a general atmosphere and expectations that match. If things are starting to go downhill, or if they never went uphill, don’t expect to overcome that. There are strong forces and reasons that keep a barn running the way it is running that a new boarder/student can’t control.

(COTH has had some vivid threads on that topic - “should the barn make radical changes to meet my expectations as a paying customer?” “how do I get Boarder X to realize this isn’t the right place for them, without asking them to leave?” )

There is no definite way to be sure a barn is really what one is looking for unless you already know it well. But there are some things that one can get an idea about ahead of time, from asking questions of both barn management and talking to the local horse community.

All this said – in some areas where not much is available, it may come down to making do, and putting one’s own time, energy and even money in to bring the jumps or the feed or whatever needs to be up to basic expectations.

[OverandOnward]

All the above, and … before I look at the above, I assess the other boarders and students, and how the facilities and the daily routine are managed. If the boarders/students are the kind of people and riders I’ll enjoy being around, then I’m ready to go the next step and find out more about the trainer personally.

The boarders/students are selected by the trainer, and will be a reflection of the trainer. If they are inconsistent in type and expectations, so is the trainer.

It is so important to be comfortable with the other boarders and students, and that they are comfortable with you.

What’s really important: It’s not rational to expect that a barn culture and facilities will morph to match a rider. It will happen the other way around.

It is amazing what the local horse community can know about what a trainer’s program is really about, if you can find and talk to the people who are involved and friendly with many others in the community. Most people are happy to tell all to anyone who will ask and listen.

What I think is the most critical factor, that brings out the truth about the trainer and management: Who is in the barn program as boarders and students, what do they do there, and how well do they do it? Doesn’t matter what the trainer’s bona fides include, if the barn is all slow-speed trail riders of a certain age, that is what the vibe, the facilities, and the instruction will lean toward. That’s fine if that’s what the new boarder wants to do. The tack room may have framed photos of 5* eventing from years ago, but the barn as it is today is the one we’ll be living with.

On the other hand, if most of the riders are competing at the top of their divisions, earning year-end championships and aiming to move up, this is going to be a high-energy barn expecting motivated and ambitious riders. That will be the way the boarders/riders converse and the way the horses are managed. Decisions and schedules will be oriented around the shows this barn regularly attends.

And so on.

A trainer-barn is a community. It has a culture, and innate, unspoken expectations.

Every group will have an energy level, and if it doesn’t match yours, you will never really be comfortable there. There are relaxed, moderate and high energy groups. The overall energy level is one of the strongest elements of any barn culture, and it is the one that will make a fellow boarder feel comfortable, or pressured to do more than they wish, or held back from doing all that they wish. The feeling will evolve from interactions with both the trainer and other boarders/students, and from the availability of necessary facilities and features.

Look at the facilities. If the barn claims to be for general English riding, but everything is dressage and the jumps are never out, the flow is toward dressage, not jumping. On the other hand, if the jumps and poles are scattered everywhere and the dressage riders are regularly complaining about not having a ring clear for them, that’s probably going to be an ongoing struggle for dressage riding. Etc. with different disciplines in the barn.

The facilities - the barn, arena, jumps or other equipment, pasture and lawn, even the wash stall - can be a sign of the culture, energy level and focus of a barn. If everything is reasonably tidy and buttoned-up on a daily basis, the stalls cleaned, the horses fed on time, the jumps maintained, the arenas dragged and the riding fields mowed, there will be a general atmosphere and expectations that match. If things are starting to go downhill, or if they never went uphill, don’t expect to overcome that. There are strong forces and reasons that keep a trainer-barn running the way it is running that a new boarder/student can’t control.

(COTH has had some vivid threads on that topic - “should the barn make radical changes to meet my expectations as a paying customer?” “how do I get Boarder X to realize this isn’t the right place for them, without asking them to leave?” )

There is no definite way to be sure a trainer & barn are really what one is looking for unless you already know them well. But there are some things that one can get an idea about ahead of time, from asking questions of both the trainer and the local horse community.

All this said – in some areas where not much is available, it may come down to making do, and putting one’s own time, energy and even money in to bring the jumps or the feed or whatever needs to be up to basic expectations.