Such a great question topic. I’m actually working with a fairly unknown trainer at the moment and very happy with her (have previously worked with Olympians, S judges, etc). I think to some degree this is an “eye of the beholder” type of question. I’m at a barn with a couple trainers who have multiple horses showing successfully at GP. But, you watch them in the day to day and it’s draw reins and hyperflexion nearly every day, which isn’t for me. This other trainer is very young, but has earned her gold on a schoolmaster. She has produced a couple of really difficult, oddball horses to PSG, but most importantly (to me) her riding style and values align with mine. So, it may seem odd to choose the least “qualified” person on the farm, but she is far and away the best trainer we have in my view.
so true @Scribbler the whole “united under a common enemy” is such a toxic trait. Nothing like putting someone down to make yourself look better SMH) It really is a huge red flag.
One of the reasons I love volunteering at my local shows as a gate steward is you typically get to hear instructors while their students are riding their test. Lets just say that there are a few local trainers I will never consider since their comments about THEIR OWN STUDENTS were derogatory and hurtful. Yep, the rider had hands that bounced like a bouncy ball, gee guess who they are paying to help them fix it? (shocker - its YOU bad instructor). An instructor or trainer bashing their own student is bashing their own work. If you cant get through to a student to teach them effectively, send them on to someone who can. Don’t begrudgingly take their money and talk crap about them behind their back.
I think that for the most part, a trainer’s work and reputation speaks for itself and if you’re good at what you do, and you’re in an area with a need for good trainers, word of mouth travels fast.
There was only one instance where a trainer rubbed me the wrong way in this aspect. They weren’t even our regular trainer. Just someone out of state that we decided to try out and had only lessoned with a couple times. They wanted us to market them. Trying to push us to buy shirts, hats and gear with their Team logo on it. Advertising their training specials on our personal social media pages so that I had to lock mine down. Asking us to go on various websites and post reviews for them. I found it really bizarre and off putting. I came to learn and get better, not be a free marketing service. It was the first of many red flags and we quietly exited stage left.
@NSC_Los_Angeles I disagree that it seems odd that you would go with that trainer over the others using hyper flexion/draw reins. In fact, I think I would do the same and most on coth would too.
There is honestly a big difference between someone still working on themselves, yes accomplished but working on it, fair to the horse and clients, over the type I’m talking about. Struggling to show at 1st level, seat not very good, clients not progressing much and a nasty temper if you leave.
I do agree but it’s in the eye of the beholder but I’m talking about is people that are just really mediocre riders and trainers all around.
@Smthn_Like_Olivia that is really odd! I would be uncomfortable with that too. Not surprised it ended up being a red flag.
@Scribbler oh yes it’s a culture. I’m such a quiet person that usually I kind of slip out of the conversation but it definitely was technique to try and bond. The trainer has a real delusion of moral superiority. She often makes long winded social media posts about it. Basically, she’s the only dressage trainer in the world who isn’t abusive. Although I’ve seen her do questionable things (took a sick horse off property once, told me even if a horse is uncomfortable it has to work because that’s what she has to do…as a person.) But man oh man, this person really gets off on the fact they are the best in the world, ethically. Like someone else said, for some the draw is for the ego! What a perfect career. If anyone questions you, you can just call them an idiot! Or cruel!
I could see the TBI thing for sure.
When horse shopping, I almost got ran over, multiple times by a horse that a “trainer” had started. The trainer had literally no control of this horse, but it was clear that this was the horse’s normal behavior/ride. The horse had been under saddle for nearly 2 years. That was another “trainer” that made think of this post! No qualifications, no training chops either lol. Maybe fabulous with beginners though.
I’m late to the party.
I teach when it’s a human, I train when its a horse. I’ve given up the later, not because of TBI’s but from landing badly once or twice but not on my head, 
So, why do I teach? Having been fortunate enough to work with several well educated instructors, I have learned a lot. I have a strong background in horse management and safety, add that to a complete inability to remain silent when faced with unsafe habits.
Teaching takes patience, it also takes a strong sense of humour. Some students are physically adept others have a harder time putting things together. Yet I’ve found that frequently the second rider progresses further, as they have had to learn the how’s and why’s while the adept rider finds “the seat of their pants” sufficient until the bad habits are too difficult to break, and thy now can progress no further.
As to some of the teachers out in the world that make you wonder, are those with excellent websites. and great ability with words, and a bit of experience on leased or lesson horses. Then there is the person who will happily train the horse, but not the rider, and the instructor who has quick equine fix, and the hubris to go with it.
And then there is the student who turns up “ready to ride” after lessons elsewhere sans helmet. Never heard of one. 
There are so many problems. I’m not sure clueless beginner trainers are even the worst of it. I know of one expensive FEI trainer who is lost. She got her credentials by buying a made horse, and only riding it at the shows. Her trainer rode boarded it at her farm and rode it in between. Now she coaches the same way, but she doesn’t have the skills to keep her clients’ horses tuned up for them.
@merrygoround see, you have pursued your own education through quality instruction of your own.
I agree that teaching, especially some amateurs, must take so much patience.
I’m not a natural rider and I have to understand the why’s and how’s or things do not click for me. So I need an instructor that also knows and can explain those to me.
@joiedevie99 ugh. Yep! So many different issues all over the board.
Once I went to talk to a Gold medalist. She was just taking a walk break on her horse while talking to me. The whole time she continued to haul on her horse’s poor face, getting him way behind the vertical. I don’t know what she was going for or why she was doing it, but honestly it was enough for me to see to nope right out of there. She felt pretty highly about herself too.
Oh! I see what you mean. When I first started riding in Los Angeles I worked with this chicken, fearful glorified amateur (LA peeps might know who I’m talking about lol) who was barely squeaking around third and sat like a sack of flour. She’s still active in the area and has a gaggle of moronic older ladies who haven’t cantered since the 90s but think she walks on water. The actual riders who have the misfortunate to wander through her world inevitably leave in a combination of anger and amusement.
@NSC_Los_Angeles yes! Oh the actually fearful instructor is plentiful! And damaging! Oh my gosh this made me laugh. I don’t know this instructor but I sure know the type.
All you need to do is be able to speak well enough. Say the right things and boom, you have a following.
THIS!! I have a very analytical brain while at the same time being very physically uncoordinated. I offset my lack of coordination by trying to understand and learn as much as possible. The same red flag trainer seemed to hate that I asked so many questions, or tried to relay what I was feeling in the saddle. Basically wanted me to just shut up and do what they were telling me. Went so far as to tell me not to go home and try to look it up online or read any forums. That was enough for me.
My current trainer is amazing in this aspect. She appreciates and takes into consideration my personal observations during a lesson. We talk through it together and she comes up with innovative ways to help me understand and communicate better with my horse. Outside of lessons, she will send me videos and articles to further help me understand whatever we were working on. She finds those lesson clips that directly address what I am trying to accomplish. And not a GP horse being ridden by an Olympian, but a horse similar in age and training as my own being ridden by an AA being taught by a top clinician. I love her so much for this. And literally just as I was finishing typing this, she sent me a excerpt from a book further explaining something we worked on this past weekend regarding the seat and balancing the horse. 
At this point I won’t take lessons with anyone until I’ve watched them teach no less than 5 lessons. Any instructor for me needs to have similar beliefs as me, a long warmup and cool down, walk breaks on a loose rein, and riding with a light contact. I really like to take my time and build on each step and not skip things. That’s just who I am as a rider and as I’ve gotten older I will push back in a lesson. It’s much easier and less stressful for me to find someone who thinks the same way as me and uses those breaks and warmup/cool down to talk about what we just did or theory or anything. If someone tries to teach me to be really handsy or skips ahead for what my horse is ready for it’s just not going to work. I may not progress as fast but I’ll have more fun along the way. It amazes me the money some of these people are making teaching beginner re-rider adult lessons when they’re really not teaching that much.
My barn mate is getting back into riding and taking twice weekly lessons. I’ve watched enough that I won’t lesson with her trainer. When we’re out hacking or riding together she’ll ask me some questions and really wants feedback and help so I’ll explain some concepts to her based on what her trainer has told her and she actually gets it when I explain it. I would nowhere consider myself a trainer and wouldn’t charge for lessons but it’s amazing how her trainer can’t get some basic things to click for her when it’s really fairly easy to explain.
I’m late to this thread and don’t know if this is going to make sense if it doesn’t quote but I relate to this post so much. The coach I found is exactly this, though not trying to be a judge. From the outside she looks like your average instructor teaching a plethora of kids who tap out at 18 when they go to college. But she is good! She knows her stuff, has the patience of a saint and puts up with my offbreed horse, me being an old offbreed rider (aka not tall and lithe) and she’s helped us go from absolutely nothing to stringing a training level test together in a matter of months.
I tell myself that when we’re better we’ll seek out a “better” coach but in the end… why? She’s my areas best kept secret as far as I’m concerned. No website or Facebook page to be found.
@ Lunabrar 1988- So I hope you have found someonr to help you
@merrygoround thank you! I did! I actually haven’t been with a “joke” of a trainer for few years now, thankfully. But I’m horse shopping and it just brought it all to light again. I meet some interesting trainers while looking at horses, to say the least!
That’s only an equilibrium if students have a lot of trouble distinguishing good from bad training.
But “young” does not necessarily mean “unqualified”. A young trainer who started as a child and did well in young riders can have plenty to teach amateurs in terms of correct basics.
I’m also late to this thread, but like [Pehsness, I also relate and wanted to put my two cents in.
There are unfortunately many of those types of “trainers” in my area and frankly it drives me crazy. Specifically, I’m mentioning what I think of as “backyard trainers”, but also some who just stick to the lower levels. However, the saying of “fake it until you make it” stands and I’ve definitely seen it work several times. There are “trainers” schooling training level and who don’t even know how to properly frame a horse up. But they exude confidence and this positively impresses on uneducated individuals. It also impresses on a few educated people for whatever reason.
First, there is a difference between riding and training that people sometimes confuse. Teaching riding pertains to teaching a rider how to utilize their position and aids. One needs to be able to articulate in a way that their student understands and have an understanding of how to utilize those skills themselves. But, you don’t necessarily need to DO to teach, although it is helpful. Training is doing and you need to initially be a strong rider, then have the additional skills of adapting and problem solving. . In both, confidence is an asset and the instructors and/or trainers at low level almost always have confidence in their abilities. In fact, I’d argue they are overly confident most times. They are good at bsing their way around things.
Then, some just naturally have the attributes of a teacher or trainer. I’ve seen people who I did not think were great riders teach things very well, and teaching was never difficult for them. I’ve also seen fantastic riders struggle with teaching because those different set of skills just didn’t come naturally to them. Usually though, this is a case of those talented riders overestimating what is easy to a rider. They need to learn how to teach students how to do things they have deemed not difficult for a time. Then there are some who do both, do it well, but at a lower level. These people attract clients who don’t have ambitions to ride at a high level. They are happy as long as they are learning.
I agree with an earlier comment that there is a disconnect between the reputation of a working student position and what is actually learned in a working student position. Some people seem to think riders learn a lot more about training than they actually do in their working student position; however, these positions are variable and some may not include that much riding at all, whereas others may be one heck of a learning experience for riding. This especially when you factor in the differences between riding and training. I know one girl who did a working student position for 3 months and started calling herself a trainer once she got home. She somehow got a teaching position at a local barn and started training a few horses on the side. Critically, there was A LOT she wasn’t doing properly, but nevertheless she started up her own business and attracted clients (beginners mostly). Then, she moved to another province, talked up her experience, and started advertised her training services. Last I saw, she was opening up her own training barn.
Then we can factor in what their target market is and it just so happens to be mostly beginners or riders who don’t know as much on the foreground of training: People who don’t know any better or have few to compare them too. Someone who knows their stuff could pull apart the differences, but those people usually go elsewhere anyways. Or the clients just have no ambitions to aim higher, as mentioned above, so they are happy sticking with their current instructor/trainer.
