What obvious traits did the dam pass along to some of the wb stallions?

We all know how important the dam is – sooo - I was wondering what some of the great wb stallions’ dams influence was that is maybe still evident in their produce down the line today? We all know the sire lines of these stallions, but I don’t recall as much about their dams being discussed on this board –

Such as:
Weltmeyer
Donnerhall
Sandro Hit
Cor de la Bryere
Calypso
Ulft
Jazz
Cocktail
Ramiro
Chagall
Master
Mahagoni
Michelangelo
Flaneur
Habicht

Fill in where you wish – just thougth I’d throw out a few to get it started for a variety of registries.
PennyG

Hmmmm! Very interesting – almost 100 views and no opinions or feedback on the dams that produced these famous stallions. I would have thought with all the lauding of the mares someone might have a comment and discussion. So these guys dams have not been looked at or considered by breeders for their contribution? Baffling!
PennyG

Maybe change the title? I am baffled as well that not one of our resident experts can say anything about these stallions’ dams!

I am no expert. :winkgrin:

I would wager that very few people on this forum have ever seen the dams of these stallions, so hard to say what traits they possessed that were passed on to their sons. Perhaps Kareen or Alexandra or Fannie Mae have seen a few and can provide their insights. Or the Holsteiner gurus like Tim or Reece, who travel to Germany fairly regularly and study damlines a lot.

Here is a photo that I found of Anka - Weltmeyer’s dam. She is apparently 20 in this image.
She is by Absatz and there are boatloads of articles about him as well and his influence on the Hanoverians.

I know its not exactly what you asked for…but it is very, very difficult to get damline info IMO. There was/is a VHS video about Weltmeyer and there is a significant amount of discussion with his breeder and the choices of stallions for Anka and then her daughter(s).

My mom’s close friend was in the same stable as Donnerwetter in Germany before he sold to Suzanne Erikson (sp?) and had some insights into possible traits (riding, behavior, personality quirks) that might come down to his descendants…but again, not the damline info you are seeking.

ETA: I don’t have my copy of the new Warmblood Breeding book by Christoph Hector handy (loaned it to a friend and am terrified I’ll never see it again!!) but there may be more info about the mares in there…I can’t remember as it’s been about a year since I browsed through it.

anka 20 years.jpg

Absatz confor.jpg

Thanks, Tasker – I appreciate your response. I know how valuable our mares are and their influence. I just wondered if the dams of these famous guys had ever been researched or credited for what they brought to the line. Seemed like an interesting discussion or something for research since these stallions still offer alot of influence.
Cheers!
PennyG

Flexible’s dam Flex has to be one if the outstanding mares of Ireland. 3 foals and 3 international competitors. http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?0=dummy&i=10463146&ad_session=OuDtBZ
Kildalton Countess produced 5 top stallions in Ireland to 2 different stallions http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=728869
Her dam Enniskeane Countess produced 2 top stallions in addition to producing one of the great dams of Ireland.

Jazz’s damline is an interesting one as there are three shared sires with Moorlands Totilas, the Holstein Blood of Nimmerdor through Farn and Amor and the TB of Pericles.

Lominka

Charmante

Farn’s dam Dorette

Kind of cheating here as I love the topic but it is hard to find dam info especially with pictures so as I find them on Sport Horse data base I am posting them…they will like be older dams and NOT modern type though but I like them best anyway.
Farn and Roman’s dam Dorette
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=40044

Heartbreaker…Constant…Contender…Ramiro…

*Heartbreaker’s dam Bacarole
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=196688
*Constant’s dam Ella(also dam of Le Sauvage)
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=375459
interestingly, I have looked only at a small handful and already I have relation…Ella is a daughter of Dorett(dam of Farn)
*Contender’s dam Gofine(also dam of Cornetto)
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=314294
and *Gofine’s dam Cita
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=8521
*Ramiro’s dam Valine
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10288166

Cor de la Bryere…Caletto I…Landgraf I…Flemmingh…

*Cor de la Bryere’s dam Quenotte
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=282988
*Caletto I’s dam Deka(and dam of Caletto II, Caletto III, and others)
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=151303
*Landgraf I’s dam Warthburg
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=178225
*Flemmingh’s dam Texas(also dam of other stallions)
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=148862

Alexandro P…Argentan I…Galoubet A…Cornet Obolensky…Benetton Dream

*Alexandro P’s dam Itilde(she is a WOW!)
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10536560
*Argentan I’s dam Worms…wish Argentinius’ dam were listen w/picture
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10536560
*Galoubet A’s dam Viti
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=589704
*Cornet Obolensky’s dam Rabanna van het Costersveld
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10413144
*Benetton Dreams’dam Rotkappchen
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10520900

Weltmeyer…Rubinstein I…Florestan I…Caretino…Contendro I

*Weltmeyer’s dam Anka
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=433433
*Rubinstein I’s dam Antine
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=203674
*Florestan I’s dam Raute
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=407537
*Caretino’s dam Isidor
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=453719
*Contendro I’s dam Bravo(and of Caretano Z and Contendro II)
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=266805

Lavall I…Donnerhall…Diamond Hit(and Sandro Hit and Royal Hit)…Diarado…Coriano

*Lavall I’s dam Madam(and Lavall II and Lavall III)http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=583851
*Donnerhall’s dam Ninette
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=458956
*Diamond Hit’s dam Loretta(and Royal Hit and Sandro Hit)
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=731954
*Diarado’s dam Roxette I
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10450562
*Coriano’s dam Option (also to Roxette I)
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=79544

Arogno - the spectacular Trakehner stallion was out of the thoroughbred mare, Articonius xx (by Apollonius xx). The belief that only thoroughbred stallions are used in breeding in Europe is just NOT true. Articonius xx was given the predicate of E.St. for her efforts and production of superior quality foals. She was a humble TB mare who turned out to be rather extraordinarily valuable, because it is HER influence and lineage that went on to produce the great stallion, Karon.

When Karon was paired with Pr.St.Capri VI, we were graced with the presence of a special stallion who has all but turned the world on it’s side, especially in his influence in the Hanoverian directly himself, but also through his sons and grandsons in the UK, Canada, USA, and Denmark - Caprimond.

Caprimond’s mother, Pr.St. Capri VI, never produced a full sibling to Caprimond. As far as I can tell, she spent her whole life as a broodmare and never showed. Her own mother, Coeur-As, was full sister to the stallion Chantilly. Capri’s sire, Mackensen, passed on to her the strong influence of Flaneur. It’s a combination of all these things that gives Caprimond what he has today. He stands at Klosterhof Medingen, and as recently as even 2010, Caprimond still performed at stallion shows alongside his son, Hohenstein, his grandson, Munchhausen, and great-grandson Tiziano.

Caprimond is so honored, that a full-sized statue of him in cast bronze stands in the entry garden at Klosterhof Medingen. The Wahler family is headed by the grandmother, Gudrun Wahler, and she will readily tell you how special this great horse is to her family.

You have to understand, most of the mares of these great, great stallions never or rarely stepped foot into a show ring. These great mares were considered to be far too valuable to risk getting into an accident while travelling to shows, or putting them under the stresses of showing and increased risks of exposure to infections, viruses and colic.

I’m just learning about bloodlines and appreciate the information on these mares. Looking at my filly’s pedigree, I notice mares with Vb. Pr. St., St. Pr., and Elite. I don’t know what these predicates (if this is what they are called) indicate. I’m just curious if they reflect foal quality and/or performance.