What schooling method do you use?

[lesson_junkie]

This show hunters/field hunters discussion has me confused…what schooling do you use to put your green horse into the hunt field? My trainer starts them the same way. All greenies get the same basic flatwork, gymnastics, trailriding in groups. They all are expected to be brave and quiet to new fences, stand with manners and cross water. The biggest difference is the priority placed on the “on demand” lead change for the show horse. Of course they have different athletic ability and temperaments, but the schooling is the same.

I ride hunters because I like how the schooling prepares a horse for the field. If he can go to the show, that’s gravy. How do you all start a young horse or quiet horse off the track?

[Jaegermonster]

The only thing that prepares a horse for hunting is hunting. That said, it is very helpful if the horse has been correctly schooled etc and a decent ride before you take him out.
In order to get some exposure prior to hunting, taking them out trail riding and to hunter paces, cubbing and roading hounds if allowed are all helpful.

IMHO I don’t think “riding hunters prepares a horse for the field” i think it prepares a horse to be a show horse. If you mean that taking it to shows gets it some mileage and exposure to the world before the excitement of a hunt, I would agree with that, but it does not prepare a horse at all for the hunt field. Any exposure you can get a young horse is good.

If you have a greenie that you intend to hunt, make sure he is well broke and listens to you first and foremost, then start doing the things I listed above and see how it goes. If you can trail ride with a couple of dogs all the better.

When you take him hunting, cubbing whatever, the first few times and probably the whole first season at least I would keep him with the hilltoppers until he learns that hunting is about listening to you, not running and jumping. Esp the ones off the track, when they get running in the group they tend to have a track flashback that is not fun.

[lesson_junkie]

It’s that “well broke” part I’m asking about. I agree the only way to teach a horse to hunt is to take him hunting.

[LookinSouth]

@lesson junkie;3121616

T My trainer starts them the same way. All greenies get the same basic flatwork, gymnastics, trailriding in groups. They all are expected to be brave and quiet to new fences, stand with manners and cross water.

Sounds about right to me. Having a horse that is used to riding in groups (uh large groups) and that is able to deal with being held behind other horses AT SPEED is paramount. Trailriding in groups is hugely helpful for that. Especially if you can trail ride in an area where you travel over some jumps too. Getting the horse familiar with hounds can be a feat as well. Taking advantage of the hound schoolings may help with that.

However, I have to definitely agree with Jaeger, nothing prepares them for hunting BUT hunting. Some horses deal with it easier than others. The hotter more competitive horses can be more difficult to manage. My own horse isn’t “hot” on trail, in the ring, XC, trail riding or Hunter pacing. But he certainly is hot while out hunting. It’s going to take awhile before he settles down in this new endeavor. BTW, he aint’ green either, he’s nearly 17!:lol:

A former H/J trainer of mine used to actually “train” field hunters for some of her clients. She did this by taking them hunting;).

[SteeleRdr]

Not to mention, we also make sure we have plenty of other “animals” roaming around the farm. Having all sorts of poultry and an ornery herding dog have helped ours get used to things being around their feet.

Mine also have a donkey living next to them, and have had several other creatures come visit (neighbors emu’s got loose, had wild dogs come at them, fox, groundhogs, squirrels, etc). We also used to have a cow, which helped them get over the “what is that big black thing” phase. We haven’t had any ponies, though I think that’d be helpful. We had one that was a bit afraid of spotted things and ponies. My horse on the other hand things ponies are about the coolest thing in the world!

[lesson_junkie]

My trainer is located in active hunt country and has a healthy field horse/trail rider business. She is also a very successful horse show trainer. The difference between the two is a matter of degree. While it’s true the way they learn to hunt is to go, I don’t want to teach a horse to jumps coops while my hunting friends are trying to enjoy the day out with hounds. We teach the horse to go bravely and quietly in the arena first, then take them outside when they know what to expect. The hunter paces and hilltopping are added to the mix when the horse indicates he’s ready.

[Ponyclubrocks]

I agree, group trail riding at speed will tell you a lot about how they react to the “herd in motion” thing. You need to work at speed over varied terrain as well. Cantering down hill on uneven ground will build your horses balance and your own confidence. I find that horses used to the outdoor life on trails or eventing are much more prepared for hunting than “ring fairies” as the kids here like to call them…

When I started hunting my current horse I was confident about how she would be with the group herd thing, it was the hounds and horn I wondered about. Her first hunt told me everything I needed to know. I had her close to the hound truck as they unloaded and as hounds streamed all around her, she sighed with boredom…hounds are apparently so low on her social order that she doesn’t give them a seconds notice.:lol:

[jeniferkey]

Our hunt has a hilltopping group that doesn’t jump, so I’ll start a horse hunting before I’ve started them over fences. Most of mine have been started outside, because we don’t really have an enclosed arena. I usually work on dressage, for listening. Out hunting I don’t ask them to go in a dressage frame, but they hopefully soften and listen from the basics they’ve had.

All of mine get out to the kennels on a regular basis, and sometimes board there to get really used to the hounds. For jumping training we do some basics with knock down jumps, but usually go to logs and smaller cross country fences pretty quick. They get to trot over logs on trail rides, and we just go from there.

I’ve had some of my 3 and 4 yr olds out in the hunt field, but I’ve also got a 5 yr old that hasn’t gone out yet. I have to judge how they will take things for when they start going out. No jumping until 4, and usually not first flight until they’re 5. Of course that depends on the horse.

It seems most people in our hunt get to hunting from different directions. Polo, h/j, trail, eventing, dressage. The thing is that we’re all attracted to hunting. To me that’s what’s important.

Jennifer
www.draftymanor.com

[Elghund2]

All of what people have mentioned above and hacking them out with dogs. We trail ride with our Chessie and our fox hound. The chessie is always close by and the fox hound comes zooming by from all angles. I figure it helps to start them off riding with several dogs running around them before introducing them to the hounds.

[Jaegermonster]

[QUOTE=lesson junkie;3121827]
My trainer is located in active hunt country and has a healthy field horse/trail rider business. She is also a very successful horse show trainer. The difference between the two is a matter of degree. While it’s true the way they learn to hunt is to go, I don’t want to teach a horse to jumps coops while my hunting friends are trying to enjoy the day out with hounds. We teach the horse to go bravely and quietly in the arena first, then take them outside when they know what to expect. The hunter paces and hilltopping are added to the mix when the horse indicates he’s ready.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you have a pretty good plan then. Check with the hunt you plan to hunt with, as someone else stated, many hilltopper fields don’t jump. So you can hunt a horse that may not be jumping yet. My young mare has been jumping for 2 years but I kept her in the hilltoppers because I want her to be more consistent and not fry her brain. The end of this season I have been letting her jump more.
You can build a coop at home to practice on.
Hopefully your hunting friends will be understanding of your young horse, their horses had to learn sometime too.

[SteeleRdr]

[QUOTE=lesson junkie;3121827]
My trainer is located in active hunt country and has a healthy field horse/trail rider business. She is also a very successful horse show trainer. The difference between the two is a matter of degree. While it’s true the way they learn to hunt is to go, I don’t want to teach a horse to jumps coops while my hunting friends are trying to enjoy the day out with hounds. We teach the horse to go bravely and quietly in the arena first, then take them outside when they know what to expect. The hunter paces and hilltopping are added to the mix when the horse indicates he’s ready.[/QUOTE]

Ours learn to jump over logs in the woods, usually with a babysitter giving them a “lead.” Teaches them to pick up their feet, and the logs are not moving! Once they learn this we’ll bring them in the ring and jump them over gymnastics etc. However, I would never take a horse out over it’s first natural fence in the hunt field. Our hunt doesn’t really have “hilltopping.” There is essentially a “green” field for young horses to avoid the really big fences, etc. My youngster started out in this field, but quickly moved to the first field this year. As the year progresses, the “green” field jumps more and more, with the expectation the horses should be progressing throughout the year as well.

[Painted_Wings]

Mine get extensive trail riding

They trail ride alone and with others. We do logs creeks and whatever comes along. I then take them roading with my own beagles (there are 8 of them). We graduate to roading foxhounds and then Hunting. I usually hilltop them first. I also school my horses on XC event jumps regularly so jumping is never an issue.

That being said I took my 3 1/2 yr old out in a pinch this season. One of the fieldmasters needed to borrow a horse and I’d hunted the spare the day before. I hilltopped her and she was tremedous. But then I’ve been hunting beagles off of her for six months. She’s used to me blowing the horn and horses being off in the wood somewhere else and beagles under her feet.

Granted we usually only have three horses out with the beagles max but she was amazingly good in the hunt field. Hunted her in a happy mouth snaffle and she rarely pulled.

[SLW]

The last two horses I’ve hunted were mature horses- each something teen- one was a WP/HUS show horse and the other had done Limited Distance/Competitive Trail, both bombproof in their career field. That being said, they were green to hunting. The WP gelding never “got it” and after 8 hunts I tossed in the towell with hunting him because he was bucking and exhibiting wreckless behaviors he had never done before. He had a treasure chest full of gifts to give but foxhunting wasn’t one of them. The second one will finish her first season hunting this Saturday at closing hunt. She took to it like a kitten to milk and did not miss a beat all season. She’ll be back.

I have a yearling who I’m tracking for hunting. He’s being ponyed through hell and high water to proof him on all things in the woods, road and creeks. He just got proofed on a 40 caliber handgun being fired 25’ from him and all he did was elevate his head and look- his feet did not move. By the time he is backed and being roaded I’m hoping he’ll be a solid hunting citizen. And yes, he’ll hilltop for a season, or two.

For me, it’s all about the horse’s brain and ability to accept the circumstances and situation.

[JSwan]

I’m not an expert - so don’t rely on what I write.

When you mean well-broke - do you mean getting them used to the rigamarole? Not the actual hunting. But things like hanging out in the trailer. Maybe ground tying? Um… being able to do things like open gates, or not panic when caught in wire, or not freaked when a pigpen fence breaks and squealing piglets run under his legs?

Or chickens, or hounds popping out of hedges and yelling BOO, or kids on ponies giggling madly, or a whip cracking behind him? Or a helicopter landing in the field next to him? Or cows running past him, with calves running up to lick him? Or big blue tarps being caught up in wind and flapping about next to him?

That sort of thing?

Cuz you could just drop him off at my place for a few weeks.:D:D

[Beverley]

Well, probably because I did a lot of western pleasure showing in a previous life, I like to get all my young horses into the show ring, at a schooling show, into the ‘group’ classes, whether hack classes or pleasure classes. I like getting them accustomed to a group setting in the confines of the arena- passing, and being passed by other horses, learning group manners, and such. And, of course, lots of trail rides, solo and in group, in all sorts of terrain.

As has been said, you just have to take them hunting to make a hunter. The jumping is the easiest part. Negotiating all types of terrain and behaving in a group is where most of my focus is.

[Jaegermonster]

By well broke I mean he will stop when you say, go when you say turn when you say without question. You have some semblance of control. Then if he does all that other stuff that’s icing on the cake. If he is controllable you can deal with the rest.
The rest of the stuff takes a little time to do, but you can do it.
Pigs and alll that are beyond well-broke, that’s bomb proof and out of the realm of a green horse

[lesson_junkie]

Thanks all for the input. It seems the training theories are either organic or systemic Not to imply any right or wrong there, because both methods work. I have started my own(usually OTTB)in the hunter discipline, and knocked around at local shows during the off season, and I just don’t see the great divide between the two. Our finished field horses can clock around a small hunter course. Some might add the step, but most have their changes. I feel safer on a horse with a little more arena time under his belt(girth?) in addition to cross country work. I just wondered how others prepared for introducing a green horse to hunting-thanks again.

[JSwan]

You’re welcome - but I thought your intent was to ask a question, not make a statement defending your method of training your horses. Whatever works for you is just fine. Most of us posted back asking for specifics, since “green” and “broke” means different things to different people.

There are many roads to Rome.

But not taking a horse hunting until it has at least a basic education, that’s a no brainer. And any discipline can provide it; the hunter ring is not necessary.

Before you get all offended, that wasn’t an insult. A beautifully trained dressage horse is a joy to ride in the hunt field, as is a cutter, a plow horse, an eventer, or a trail horse.

If the horse can walk, trot and canter/lope, can be ridden in an open area without losing his/her mind, trot a crossrail, is sound, isn’t a kicker of horses or dogs, and has all his marbles, that’s pretty much the basic requirements to be introduced to hunting. Ideally the horse would hilltop before joining the field, so you can still be working on jumping if you want. Or - you could wait until the horse is a competent jumper. But the basic education remains the same across disciplines.

Where the horse goes from there, and how to actually turn a green field hunter into a trusty field hunter - won’t be found in the ring. And I think that’s what we were trying to help you with. The most perfect square halt from a dressage horse is beautiful - but how to take that lovely halt and obtain it when 30 couple go howling by, followed by 60 galloping horses, on a frosty, windy morning - that ain’t gonna be taught in the ring.

Ask me how I know that.

[lesson_junkie]

J Swan, no offense taken, of course. My question came from the show/field discussion. I was puzzled at the divergence. In our area, most field hunters come from show hunter barns. We have some of the old time horsemen still around who expect the show horses to be able to canter down hill and cross the creek at the bottom! As long as they jump coops, cross water, and stand at the checks they can hunt in front of me no matter how they got that way.

[JSwan]

I’m glad you have still have those horsemen where you live. There are still plenty around where I live, too.

I keep trying to get a friend of mine to simply come cubbing - you know - really early in the season when it’s still hot and we’re going slow - only out for an hour - really easy easy easy.

Her dressage trainer won’t let her. (like he’s got the key to her cage or something?) Anyway, he says it will ruin the dressage. She’s at Training Level, fer crissakes. And has been for years (cuz it’s a slow process that takes a lifetime to master; he kinda makes it sound like dressage is about as fun as being in labor for 22 hours)

I call a big steaming stinky pile of BS on that one.

Happy Hunting. Oh - never ride behind me - I suffer from post nasal drip. But my horse generally stands well at checks - I trained him by giving him a peppermint when he condescended to stand still for more than a nanosecond.

I don’t know if that’s an approved method for teaching a horse to stand still at checks. But since I had no idea what I was doing (and still don’t) I figured it was worth a try.