What the &%*$!! - Heated Water Tubs

[SuckerForHorses]

Okay, bear with me here…I’m going to try to make this as short and succinct as possible…

For years and WITHOUT ANY ISSUES, the horses share a Rubbermaid water tank with some heifers in the winter. Paddocks are separate, water tub spans fenceline so each end is in a paddock. Always use a sinking heater with a metal cage, like this: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr…500-watt?rfk=1 Setup includes appropriate ground rod and copper wire attached, with other end into tank/water, to properly ground, per heater instructions. Heavy duty outdoor extension cord of shortest possible length used to plug heater into (non GFI) outlet inside nearby building. This setup has never been an issue in the past, for several years it’s been set up this way.

This fall, noticed horses & heifers not willing to drink out of tank – they would stand there and paw the ground, and my mare would touch her chin whiskers to the water, but not actually put her lips on the water.

Bought brand new sinking heater just in case, but no luck.

Obviously, there was an issue with the setup, so I provided a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] tub, without a heater, for them to drink.

Snow falls and covers the ground, my mare & the heifers start drinking out of original heated tub normal. I witnessed her drinking from it several times, and she continues to do so. Heifers drink out of it fine too.

This brings me to horse #2.

He will NOT drink out of it. I’ve been providing him with an additional source of water ever since fall, in a different location not near the other tank.

What is odd, is that all of the second sources of water he’s discontinued drinking out of like he’s getting shocked from them as well, and I’m running out of options.

First I put out a muck bucket with a sinking heater (same as linked above) only this heater is plugged directly into a GFCI outlet (no extension cord used) except in this location, there is no ground rod setup.

He drank out of this tub immediately. Next few days – no go.

Exchanged that tub for a different shape tub, different heater – drank out this tub immediately, after that – no go.

Decided to hang 2 flat back heated buckets on the building near the outlet, since those buckets don’t have the heating element in the water – thinking those would not shock horse [if that is what is happening with the heated tanks that have the element directly in the water] These buckets: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr…t?cm_vc=-10005 Again, drank out of them immediately, then overnight/next few days, nothing.

Last night we put out one of these 16 gallon tubs (https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr…b?cm_vc=-10005) – same – he drank out of it the first night, then – no go. This type has a mini heating element in the water/tub like a drain plug heater.

If he’s not drinking out the tubs that have the heating elements in the water itself because he’s getting shocked, how would he get shocked from the buckets that do NOT have the heating elements in the water???

The only thing I can think of is that when I immediately fill them and plug them in, the heaters are thermostatically controlled, so if the water at that time isn’t cold enough to kick them on, he’s not getting shocked, but later when the temperature brings the water temperature down, and the heating element thermostat kicks it on, he’s getting shocked later.

At this point I really don’t know what to do. Every single thing we’ve tried he’s avoiding after that first immediate drink.

What could be going on?!?!

Note: I’m not making him go without water. Each AM and PM, I offer him a 5 gallon NON HEATED bucket of fresh water, and he drinks it readily. I let him drink as much as he wants.

However, the temperature here in Vermont has been not much above 0 degrees for over a week and leaving out unheated buckets isn’t an option – they just freeze solid within an hour. So, I offer him fresh twice a day, and recently started offering a beet pulp tea to encourage more water intake (handful of beet pulp but mixed with 4 gallons of warm water so its essentially flavored water and he drinks all of it).

Mare continues to drink out of original tub that’s shared with the heifers, who are also drinking out of it fine.

I’m ripping my hair out here.

[SuckerForHorses]

Sorry, that was longer than planned but I feel all the details are important!

[trubandloki]

To me it simply sounds like he gets his fill when you bring fresh water so he has no reason to drink out of the other water supply.

Could it have more to do with him not liking the heated water and he prefers the fresh non-heated water? In other words, nothing to do with getting shocked or anything, just a water preference.

I have one mare that very rarely drinks out of her bucket in her stall/paddock over night but will go right up to the trough in the morning and have a good long drink.

[SuckerForHorses]

@trubandloki

To me it simply sounds like he gets his fill when you bring fresh water so he has no reason to drink out of the other water supply.

Could it have more to do with him not liking the heated water and he prefers the fresh non-heated water? In other words, nothing to do with getting shocked or anything, just a water preference.

I have one mare that very rarely drinks out of her bucket in her stall/paddock over night but will go right up to the trough in the morning and have a good long drink.

No, because at first I was hoping that he’d see my mare drink and would drink also, so I stopped offering a 2nd source or the fresh water AM and PM and he was getting clearly distraught that he “couldn’t” drink the water in the heated tubs - pawing, stretching his neck out like he wanted to drink from it but didn’t want to get too close, biting the edge of the tank and buckets but not actually drinking the water from the buckets - that was when I started offering the fresh water in the unheated buckets because I knew he wasn’t drinking what was available in the heated buckets and I couldn’t deny him water any longer.

[SuckerForHorses]

He goes from drinking a good long fill when its FIRST offered in the heated tub (plugged in), to not drinking ANYTHING out of it after it’s been plugged in for a few hours and instead is clearly telling me he’s thirsty but won’t drink from it.

[trubandloki]

@SuckerForHorses

He goes from drinking a good long fill when its FIRST offered in the heated tub (plugged in), to not drinking ANYTHING out of it after it’s been plugged in for a few hours and instead is clearly telling me he’s thirsty but won’t drink from it.

Have you tried unplugging it while he stands there wanting to drink out of it?

[SuckerForHorses]

@trubandloki

Have you tried unplugging it while he stands there wanting to drink out of it?

Yes, and he still won’t drink because he’s too suspicious by that point. But by then, what difference would that make other than to confirm that he won’t drink from it when its plugged in? I already know that lol It still doesn’t give any answers

[Hilary]

Have you tried putting a voltmeter in the water to see what’s going on? Is he shod and the others are barefoot so he might be more sensitive to a shock?

I would say that until the weather lets up a little, I would just cater to him and give him a full bucket morning and night. If he is drinking his fill when you offer the buckets he is probably getting as much as he needs. When it’s not 0, you can solve the problem.

Once you don’t need the heaters anymore you will better be able to tell if he is ok drinking out of the community pond or being a prima donna. The heaters will heat when it’s 50 degrees which is a much easier temperature to do outdoor experimental projects like this!

[candyappy]

This happened with my horses this year. I have usually put a 16 gallon heated tub ( allied precision) out once it gets to freezing. This year I decided to leave the big trough out and just use one of my deicers instead. I guess they didn’t care for the floating one, so I used a sinking one after that. They would stand and look then paw the ground.

I removed each deicer and each time they drank immediately. I finally put the 16 gallon tub back and they have been drinking fine ever since.

I also have the green 16 gallon tub you show a picture of. My cow refuses to drink from it and several of my goats run their chin along the top of the water but will not drink from it. I watch others drink just fine. I buy another blue allied precision and all the goats drink like a charm.

Cow uses a 5 gal API bucket I have had --no issues except I have to fill it multiple times a day.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe your horse associates the warmer water with getting zapped? The 5 gallon buckets seem to keep water warmer than the 16 gal tub. I hate to suggest you go and spend more money, but maybe try the 16 gallon from allied precision?

Some horses just remain suspicious once they get a shock, you might just have to water him morning and evening until the heaters come out.

[buck22]

Experiencing my first winter with a new gelding, so still figuring out his quirks (he has the market cornered on quirks). On a good day he’s suspicious about EVERYTHING. Add a blizzard and a winter-high herd to the mix and winter is just oh so fun.

I self-care rough board - no electricity. I have mastered the art of insulating the trough for 24hr ice-free water. All great until knuckle-head decides that all the insulation looks way too strange to be of any use to him, so he’ll stand around with a big moapy face, gnaw punishingly on a salt block and slowly die of thirst, thank you very much.

Fortunately, he is a treat hound, so using treats, I’ve trained him drink water on command - more or less. I give a cue, he drinks or mooshes his nose around in the water, he gets a treat.

I started out with treats in an empty scary tub until its ok. Then then filling, giving a cue until he puts is nose near the water and then plopping in floating treats (peppermint puffs work VERY well for this task), until he’s slobbering around the trough looking for floating mints and drinking his fill. Cue. Nose in water. Plop reward.

Now, clever boy that he is, will go up to the tub and drink with a hopeful look in his eye everytime he sees me.

Maybe consider using your preferred water tub as a feed tub for a couple of times? Until he associates the tub with good things? Or float some apples or treats in it and let him bob around? Basically, find a way to make the tub a happy place.

[SuckerForHorses]

The next trial is the Allied Precision 16 gallon tub that has the heating element within the walls, not in the water. His owner has one she brought up last night.

[SuckerForHorses]

Both are barefoot.

Last night they were in the barn due to the weather, and he was provided with the 5 gallon heated bucket that has the heater within the walls, not in the actual water itself - the same buckets we provided him outside on attempt number…3 I think it was…and he drank the whole bucket overnight. So, he’ll drink from this bucket in his stall now, but wouldn’t outside after his initial drinking.

Since it was around 0 degrees last night i have to believe that the thermostatically controlled heated bucket was at some point last night working to keep the water thawed when he drank out of it and yet he still drank the whole thing.

I give up.

[skyy]

Do you have mats in your stalls so that when he is inside he is standing on rubber and not directly on the ground?

[SuckerForHorses]

@skyy

Do you have mats in your stalls so that when he is inside he is standing on rubber and not directly on the ground?

Yes. Good observation/thinking!

Maybe we can drag a rubber mat out and put it where he’d be standing when he drinks out of the outdoor bucket.

[Ticker]

@SuckerForHorses

Both are barefoot.

Last night they were in the barn due to the weather, and he was provided with the 5 gallon heated bucket that has the heater within the walls, not in the actual water itself - the same buckets we provided him outside on attempt number…3 I think it was…and he drank the whole bucket overnight. So, he’ll drink from this bucket in his stall now, but wouldn’t outside after his initial drinking.

Since it was around 0 degrees last night i have to believe that the thermostatically controlled heated bucket was at some point last night working to keep the water thawed when he drank out of it and yet he still drank the whole thing.

I give up.

When the horse was in his stall drinking from his heated bucket…was it plugged into the exact same outlet that the outside heater is plugged into?

You stated that your setup has been running fine for several years with no problems.
You have changed the heaters and the tubs…and the extension cord ? …and are still having problems.
You have swapped or changed the most obvious parts of the setup which I commend you for, you have done all of the right things.

Electrical circuits , which starts at the power source…not the outlet…do degrade over time…connections experience corrosion thru moisture, dirt, rodents etc. which can cause your setup to fail or far worse. You could have something as simple as corroded wires in the outlet. We have replaced more then a few outlets in our barn over the years.

I would call a professional to check your entire setup.

[SuckerForHorses]

GUESS WHO FINALLY DRANK OUT OF THE HEIFER TUB!!! Watched him do it just now! Yesterday I had an idea and I put a regular bucket w water RIGHT next to the tub they’ve always used (the one he first refused to drink from but everyone else at the community tub has been using…) so he would realize it’s OK to get water from there. Today I did it again but let him get a small drink from bucket then dumped water into tub and walked away and he reached down and drank out of the tub, completely without suspicion.

I’ll keep an eye to make sure this continues but hopefully he’s over his suspicion and will continue to drink from this tub