What the heck does "intermediate rider" mean?

[Alliance]

Another Opinion!

As everyone said, it’s very subjective. This is how I personally have defined the different stages of riders for myself. Again, this is just how I see it:

Beginner: The beginner rider has a negative influence on the horse. No judgement, we’ve all been there. For whatever reason, from a bouncy seat to less than stable hands, when the beginner rider rides a horse, the horse must make up for the rider. At the very least, they need to tolerate a lot of confusing and sometimes aggravating aids. Overall, the riders just have a negative influence. God bless the horses that put up with us all in this stage.

Intermediate: An intermediate rider has a neutral influence on the horse, and may even be able to have a positive influence on it from time to time or with certain horses. Their position is probably getting fairly solid. Most of the time (we all have those moments) nothing they’re doing makes it harder for the horse to do its job. Sometimes, it even makes it easier.

Advanced: The advanced rider has a consistent positive influence on the majority of horses. They consistently set the horse up for success, and can use their aids to actually AID the horse in its movements. Obviously we all have times when we ride less than stellar, however as I’d stated, generally speaking, the advanced rider has a strong positive influence on the horse and helps it to be better.

That’s what makes sense to me. So, that being said, when I read ‘‘needs an intermediate rider’’, I read ‘‘won’t put up with a rider that is making things harder for them’’, or in more extreme situations, ‘‘still needs the rider’s help or guidance in most tasks.’’ But again, that’s just me.

It’s a very interesting concept, i’m glad it was brought up!

[Scribbler]

[QUOTE=Alliance;8762418]
As everyone said, it’s very subjective. This is how I personally have defined the different stages of riders for myself. Again, this is just how I see it:

Beginner: The beginner rider has a negative influence on the horse. No judgement, we’ve all been there. For whatever reason, from a bouncy seat to less than stable hands, when the beginner rider rides a horse, the horse must make up for the rider. At the very least, they need to tolerate a lot of confusing and sometimes aggravating aids. Overall, the riders just have a negative influence. God bless the horses that put up with us all in this stage.

Intermediate: An intermediate rider has a neutral influence on the horse, and may even be able to have a positive influence on it from time to time or with certain horses. Their position is probably getting fairly solid. Most of the time (we all have those moments) nothing they’re doing makes it harder for the horse to do its job. Sometimes, it even makes it easier.

Advanced: The advanced rider has a consistent positive influence on the majority of horses. They consistently set the horse up for success, and can use their aids to actually AID the horse in its movements. Obviously we all have times when we ride less than stellar, however as I’d stated, generally speaking, the advanced rider has a strong positive influence on the horse and helps it to be better.

That’s what makes sense to me. So, that being said, when I read ‘‘needs an intermediate rider’’, I read ‘‘won’t put up with a rider that is making things harder for them’’, or in more extreme situations, ‘‘still needs the rider’s help or guidance in most tasks.’’ But again, that’s just me.

It’s a very interesting concept, i’m glad it was brought up![/QUOTE]

Maybe we need a fourth category, “pro rider.” I feel like I fit a lot of the definitions of advanced rider being put up here, and that can’t be right! But when I then think, who am I comparing myself to that is so much better than me, on every aspect (skills, tact, form, sticky seat, courage, versatility), it’s my pro friends.

[Sticky_Situation]

I see the term “intermediate rider” as being used to try to prevent beginners from looking at a horse for sale that is basically well behaved to ride, but is not a bombproof baby sitter.

IMO, those of us that have been around the horse world for a while are probably more likely to underestimate our skill level than overestimate it when it comes to trying out horses (because we know that “experienced rider needed” is usually code for “psychotic fire breathing dragon”). On the other hand, I have observed that those new to horses, especially ones that are using the “learn as you go” method rather than working with a competent instructor, tend to overestimate their skill level and buy horses that, while not truly “problem horses” or even “difficult” or “hot”, quickly get labeled as such because the new buyer is completely clueless.

A horse that is “suitable for an intermediate rider” doesn’t, in my book, require someone that has a bronze medal and/or jumps 3’3" courses, and it is likely a pretty well behaved horse that will let you make a mistake or two without holding a grudge … It’s just not one of those saintly types you see in Craigslist ads where someone is wearing flip-flips and standing on its back while it’s tied to the porch railing of a mobile home by the reins of its upside-down bridle, in which the horse’s good will is the only thing standing between the owner and a Darwin Award.

[Eclectic_Horseman]

[QUOTE=Scribbler;8764639]
Maybe we need a fourth category, “pro rider.” I feel like I fit a lot of the definitions of advanced rider being put up here, and that can’t be right! But when I then think, who am I comparing myself to that is so much better than me, on every aspect (skills, tact, form, sticky seat, courage, versatility), it’s my pro friends.[/QUOTE]

The problem with using the word “professional” or “Pro” is that it has a well established meaning that has nothing to do with the rider’s competence. Pro means that the person accepts remuneration for riding other people’s horses. Some of those paid people are excellent. Others, well, not so much.

[MysticOakRanch]

As someone who has sold a few horses, I look at it less suspiciously then some of you I can’t tell you how many people have come out representing themselves as Intermediate or Very Experienced riders, and they don’t even know the basics of STEERING, or how to pick up a horse’s foot, or how to saddle a horse (at least how to do it in a non-traumatic way).

I look at the context of the ad - if it is a young horse, then it is very reasonable - please don’t call about this horse (no matter how cute he is and how much you can afford the asking price) if you are still learning how to post, think pulling hard on the horse’s head left will make him turn left, and you have dreams of learning with your young horse. This is NOT a good match!

If it is a sport horse type, a bit sensitive, but sane and nice - it is still not a beginner rider’s horse! No matter how cute it is, and how much you dream of blue ribbons some day - some day is not today! Such a nice horse can easily be soured by a non-experienced rider - and guess whose fault that is? Yep, it is always the seller’s fault (and sometimes it is the horse’s fault too).

If it is a horse who has had some bad training, and has been coming along really well with good work, and is now ready to move on to a new home - but not with a beginner rider - they just don’t need to go through that again. No matter how much you dream of learning on your magically rescued horse, this is probably not the match for you.

The list goes on and on. I have listed many 4 year olds with 3 to 6 months under saddle, and have screened out at least 20 or 25 beginner riders - still learning how to post, still learning how to steer, looking for their first horse. Some of them are KIDS - I ask to talk to their Mom, and often spend quite a bit of time going over the kind of horse they should look for, and recommending they work with a reliable trainer, so their kid isn’t injured. Some of them greatly overstate their abilities. I don’t want to subject my babies to that - it isn’t fair to the horse, it isn’t fair to the rider.

So, when I see “intermediate rider”, I don’t automatically turn and run -sometimes I think, hmmmm, this may be a horse for me. I prefer a slightly sensitive horse, one that has a bit of GO. Now, if an ad says “Professional’s Horse” - then I back off - that means “too much horse for me”.

Pick up the phone (or email) and ask a few questions - and it is perfectly fair to ask “what do you mean by intermediate rider”?. Ask what the horse’s behavior issues are (if any), ask what the horse does when it is stressed or worried. And of course, if you suspect you don’t meet the qualifications of “intermediate rider”, then you probably don’t.

BTW, to me, intermediate rider means one who has control of their body enough to sit the trot a bit, who can steer, halt, and understands it isn’t all from their hands. One who can bend a horse and ride an accurate 15 meter circle. Basically, someone who can pull off a decent First Level test.

[ToN_Farm]

There is a sales site called MatchnRide that has some nice horses advertised. They rank on a scale of 1 to 5 the following:

How would you describe you LEVEL OF RIDING? Choices are 1 Beginner to 5 Advanced.

How would you describe your TEMPERAMENT as a horse person: Choices are 1 Timid to 5 Confident.

I wonder what the difference is between a 1 and a 3 on the timid scale? There seems to be a correlation between being timid and ones ability to ride well. I think a person can be timid and still a pretty good rider.

[rjr]

I think there is a lot of variation. Sometimes “intermediate rider” means that a horse has real problems and needs an advanced rider. Other times, it just means “not an absolute beginner”. In general, I think that “intermediate” means someone who could get on any most any trained 6 year old and have a safe ride. A rider who won’t get scared or intimidated if a horse kicks out at the whip, rushes, or throws in a small buck; and a rider who can discipline a horse who is being rude or balky.

If the horse otherwise sounds like what you are looking for, then call and describe your experience and ask if the owner thinks it would be a good fit. Most owners/trainers will be honest because they don’t want you getting on their horse if it is going to be a bad or dangerous experience for either you or the horse. Lastly, when (if) you go to see the horse, remember that you are under NO obligation to ride it. Watch the owner/trainer ride first, and if you have any reservations about getting on; or even if you can tell just by watching that it is not the horse for you; then don’t get on. There is no reason to give yourself or the horse a bad experience just to be “polite”.

[Velvet]

I think the term also needs to be viewed in context with the horse’s TRUE level of training. Got to love that all horse ads seem to have horses schooling Second (and rarely lower) when in reality they are Training or maybe schooling First.

If you can assess a horse’s true level of schooling, you might be Intermediate.

[postgradmess]

@Miss Woodford

IME sellers tend to drastically underplay the difficulty of riding the horse in their ad copy, so I wouldn’t look at any ad that says “intermediate rider recommended”, “sensitive”, “forward”, “one-person horse”, or similarly ominous wording. Even if I was an intermediate rider looking for a sensitive, forward horse. Inevitably the “beginner” “push-button” “kicking quiet” horses turn out to be the ones that need an intermediate rider, while the “intermediate rider recommended” horses actually require Xenophon himself to descend from the heavens.

I may just be cynical, though.

you’re definitely not too cynical.

Not to mention, after enough “just to be safe” trips to the ER, this particular strong intermediate (20 years of riding experience if we count from day one on a nice parade horse named buggs, comfortable across multiple disciplines, velcro-butt) rider would be more than happy to find out that the horse i bought assuming it was worse than advertised was actually dead quiet lol.

[dressagefjord807]

I feel like it depends who you ride around most often. Someone at a BNT showing barn who is surrounded by serious professionals and AAs all shooting for their medals will likely have a tougher scale for beginner/intermediate/advanced and may only reserve the term “advanced” for someone competing at the absolute peak levels of the sport. Someone at a more laid back barn may consider anyone with the ability to walk/trot/canter on a lesson horse to be intermediate at the very least. Sometimes even lesson programs assign their classes novice through advanced, where “advanced” riders may just be kids who can canter and do cross rails.

In my opinion, I would use the term beginner to describe someone who is capable of walk/trot/canter but doesn’t necessarily have an understanding of straightness, forwardness, bending, collection, transitions, etc (assuming we are only talking about dressage riders). An intermediate rider would be a rider with an understanding and correct application of those concepts, unsure if I want to ascribe competition levels to this because I think someone could theoretically ride at Training/First level and have a better understanding and feel for dressage than someone who rides at a higher level. But I would go ahead and say anyone who’s reached FEI levels and can get good scores would be advanced, of if someone could at least ride correct FEI movements with an advanced understanding collection/bend/forward/etc.

This thread is definitely make me rethink listing my horse for lease with the caveat that the leaser should be intermediate though! I don’t people to think he’s super challenging to ride! I was just hoping for a legitimate dressage rider leaser who could correctly put him in a frame and work him appropriately versus plod around the arena. Hmm, rethinking my ad now. :lol:

[Scribbler]

Well say ideal leaser will have experience in dressage to xx level and be required to take one day a week lesson with my coach.

Sounds like you wouldn’t be happy with even an advanced hunter rider.

[the_sandiest_shoes]

As mentioned, it’s so subjective. I’ve been riding off and on my whole life, bronze medal, etc. I consider myself intermediate. However, I’ve gotten more nervous as a “re-rider” and when doing my recent horse shopping trips, I carefully into ads for “experienced amateurs”, “intermediate riders”, “not for beginners”. On the one hand, I was looking for young horses, and to me a young horse is by its nature not for beginners - so yes, obviously, a young horse needs an “intermediate” rider. However, as indicated in the thread, often sellers really want to get a horse into the amateur/broader market and yet have a lot of variety in what they consider “amateur friendly”/“safe but not for beginners”, etc.

So screening questions help. I would explain my background, but also say I’m a bit timid and don’t want a horse that is prone to buck, bolt, rear, be excessively hot or spooky, etc. I’d ask how hot the horse was on a scale of 1/10 if that wasn’t in the add (anything greater than 5 I’d interpret as a 12/10 and cross off the list). I’d then ask about the horse’s background in those behaviors. I had sellers tell me “well yeah, he’s a young horse, I’m not going to act like he’s never spooked, etc.” which is fine and what I would expect, but worth asking in case it’s like “wellllll…he’s a horse that needs to be regular work or else x,y, maybe z”. I’d ask “do you need to lunge them before riding on occasion or most days?”. Stuff like that. Do some vetting over email or by phone before making a trip - explain yourself, what you’re looking for (i.e., do you want a horse who goes on trails?), what kinds of behaviors you can’t deal with, etc. This might help avoid wasting time to make a trip, especially when you plan to travel far. I also used my coach as agent, who had the knowledge to actually know a lot of sellers in the market and had experience on who she trusted. She would try a horse out and then tell me whether it was worth me getting on. Most of them, it wasn’t (she knows I’m nervous and really didn’t want me to have a scary experience trying them out).

[Scribbler]

Well buying a young horse it’s a given they will have more beans and wobbles relative to what they are like at 11 years old. If you are unable to handle these get a slightly older horse. No shame in that. A young horse that throws you minimal problems might settle down to more of a push ride than you will want in 5 years.

[the_sandiest_shoes]

@Scribbler

Well buying a young horse it’s a given they will have more beans and wobbles relative to what they are like at 11 years old. If you are unable to handle these get a slightly older horse. No shame in that. A young horse that throws you minimal problems might settle down to more of a push ride than you will want in 5 years.

I mean yeah, understood - normal young horse stuff is ok. I didn’t want, as much as possible, truly dangerous, take off bucking while I’m in the process of mounting, rear up/strike out, put me in the hospital, German clinician tell me the horse is dog food, spend $10,000 on a cowboy only to have him tell me 6 months later the horse is unrideable - type stuff. Which, I’ve had.

[Manahmanah]

From my experience, most people overestimate how well they can ride.

Some horses just won’t tolerate getting accidentally jammed by spurs, punished in the mouth by beginner hands, being told to go faster and slow down at the same time, get flopped around on. Etc. And everyone e wants the horse with the flashy gaits but the horses with the flashy gaits usually tend to be hotter. It’s not at all due to the horse being bad… and an intermediate rider can get on said horse and have a perfectly lovely ride where the same horse will quickly become intolerant with a rider who doesn’t know what they are doing.

[Obsidian_Fire]

This is a tough question and I think it’s a matter of context, as others have pointed out, who you ride around and where.
some people consider me advanced but for goodness sakes I am just getting by!!! (They really need to get out more, LOL). On the other hand, were I to sell my mare, I would not want beginners showing up, so my ad would definitely indicate “intermediate” rider.

[Outyougo]

As a former pony club rider and pony club mom…the USPC ratings have a good system. Check it out.