What the heck is wrong with this horse? Long, because I wanted to be thorough

Looking to tap into the COTH Hive Mind with a “zebra” medical issue.

Horse belongs to a student of mine, he’s an 8 year old 16’2" OTTB she bought last April. Had been OTT since the previous December; a war horse (raced for 4-5 years, 33 races), restarted by the seller/flipper after a brief letdown - they did several months of training doing basic flatwork - w/t/c and a little jumping. Passed a PPE with minimal “issues” - a little hock arthritis, a cold, set osselet in one fetlock, back felt fine on palpation (didn’t do back rads as a result), otherwise “unremarkable” results with no big red flags. Everything “looked good” for the work she wanted to do with him per the vet.

Started him in work at my student’s barn in the summer after a 30 day quarantine (her barn has a restrictive quarantine protocol where horses coming in are put into a separated pasture with a run-in - and not allowed to be ridden or worked in hand in any of the three rings on property), and so she started to ride him after that and rode him lightly, did some lessons with me along with a little groundwork to get focus. No issues other than greenness in the contact; we worked on getting a steady connection and a nice forward rhythm, did some easy lateral work and basic dressage, some cavaletti, etc. He didn’t go on Ulcerguard when he got there (in retrospect, she probably should have done this “prophylacticly” but he seemed fine, happy, non-reactive and relaxed while in quarantine - and wasn’t girthy, fussy or resistant.)

Anyway, fast forward to the fall - September - when he got a big gash/laceration on the inside of his hock. Vets started him on a round of Excede and Doxy, and when the swelling didn’t go down they gave him another shot of excede, extended the Doxy, and added 3 days of Gent. Overall he got 3 rounds of excede, 3 rounds of Gent, and was on Doxy for a month; she did give him probiotics during this time. He was on stall rest for awhile while this was going on, but it did resolve.

A short time following this he was put back into light work with another of my students as a part-lease; his owner was now pregnant so opted to stop riding at that point - but wanted to keep him in work. He was never lame during any of this, but suddenly started showing some resistances under saddle. There had been no changes to his diet, and the saddle fit was okay (if not perfect) per the fitter who checked it - and the massage therapist who worked on him said his back felt good; when I palpated it there was no reaction, and it felt soft and pliable. NO reactivity to touch at this point.

He began becoming girthy when tacked up, resistant under saddle (which came and went - mostly started balking at going forward and bending), and we figured it was physical so backed off work and immediately had the vet out, suspecting ulcers. He started to become cranky at being touched, especially in the girth area - so that was pretty much a “smoking gun.”

He was scoped, and they found multiple, small ulcers - so he was treated with gastroguard and sulcralfate for 6 full weeks - re-scoped at that point - ulcers were gone after a taper. The vet didn’t think he had hindgut issues so was resistant to trying misoprostal - but his owner wanted to rule it out so they did an ultrasound and the results were negative? (I suspected that he might indeed have hindgut issues because of his sensitivity to touch - especially in the flank area - but the vets said no. :thinking:)

His hypersensitivity to touch kept increasing to the point where he started violently reacting to being touched pretty much anywhere - but especially near his hind end; gnashing his teeth, KICKING OUT and cow kicking with increasing “vigor” and purpose, and flinging his head up - and he also started becoming spooky (which was out of character), more reactive in general, and just SO unhappy that handling him became a bit dicey. He was clearly miserable. This was AFTER the full ulcer treatment, and after he scoped “clean.”

Vet came back out and did a Lyme titer test (which I had suggested earlier), he was negative! for Lyme. I have wondered about some other tick borne illness that might have become systemic - but there was never any fever - they did bloodwork but didn’t test for anything other than Lyme.

Stumped, the vets suggested that he undergo a full lameness work up at Morven. Since he wasn’t “lame”, I wondered about this but WTH at this point? Just delve deeper, right?

Anyway, they did a bunch of tests: Neuro, which came back very mildly positive - so they decided to put him on EPM meds “just in case” - and they did a workup with flexions, palpations, ROM exercises, x-rays, lameness evals on a circle, etc.

Here were the findings:

Neck: no pain on palpation of the poll or TMJ bilaterally. There was mild pain on palpation of the caudal cervical regions bilaterally.

Back: There was moderate pain on palpation of the dorsal spinous processes in the lumbar region. There was mild pain on palpation of the epaxial musculature in the thoracic region. There was marked restriction on dynamic palpation of the lumbar spine bilaterally. There was mild pain on palpation of the sacroiliac region.

LF: no significant findings on palpation of the distal limb. Normal range of motion and response to passive distal limb flexion. There was mild moderate effusion of the coffin joint. There was mild effusion of the fetlock joint. There was mild effusion of the digital sheath.

RF: Moderate pitting painful edema noted on the lateral aspect of the carpus and metacarpus. (He had injured himself in the field the night before, UGH, horses!!) Normal ROM and response to passive distal limb flexion. There was mild/moderate effusion of the coffin joint. There was mild effusion of the fetlock joint. There was mild effusion of the digital sheath. (This “resolved” in a reasonable time frame, FRT.)

LH: No significant findings on palpation of the distal limb. Normal ROM and response to passive hyperflexion of the upper limb. There was mild effusion of the fetlock joint. There was mild effusion of the digital sheath. There was a mild response to the Churchill test. There was mild effusion of the medial femorotibial joint.

RH: No significant findings on palpation of the distal limb. Normal ROM and response to passive hyperflexion of the upper limb. There was mild effusion of the fetlock joint. There was mild effusion of the digital sheath. There was a mild response to the Churchill test. There was mild effusion of the medial femorotibial joint.

Hoof testers: The patient was shod in open heel steel shoes with all four feet with pad on the back half of the foot on the front feet.

Lameness: The horse was trotted in a straight line and in a circle in each direction over a smooth and firm surface. There was a grade 2/5 RF lameness on a circle to the right. (Well he did “ding” himself before the exam, so…)

Utrasound of the dorsal articular processes of the back was performed. There was a mild-moderate remodeling of the dorsal articular processes of T15-18 and moderate remodeling from the dorsal articular processes of T18-L4 (worse on the left than the right.)

Radiographs of the back (DSPs only) were taken for review. There was grade 1 dorsal spinous impingement or “Kissing Spine” at T15-T17.

Neuro eval: Symmetry" symetric muscling throughout.

Cranial Nerve Evaluation: All cranial nerves appeared intact with normal response to examination.

Spinal Cord reflexes: Gelding was normoreflexive to the cerviofacial and local cervical tests bilaterally. Postural reflexes were within normal limits.

Gait Description (W/T): the gelding was noted to circumduct his right hind limb and drag the toe on a tight circle to the left. The gelding did not display any abnormalities when backed in a straight line. The gelding exhibited spasticity of his hind limbs when walked with his head raised in a straight line. The gelding crossed his forelimbs when walked downhill with his head raised.

Proprioception: Normal placement on tight circles in both directions.

Flexions: the following responses were elicited:

LF: DLF: mild
RF: DFL: moderate
LH: DLF: mild, ULF; mild, stifle: mild
RH: DLF: mild, ULF: mild-moderate+, stifle: mild-moderate

  1. Inflammation of the dorsal articular processes of the back
  2. Grade 1 assymetric sensory ataxia and hyper-reflexia - suspect EPM
  3. cellulitis of right forelimb (since resolved.)

They started him on Ponazuril, he has been on it for 3-4 weeks with no change. In fact, his reactivity has been as bad or worse!

Ugh.

The owner did start him on a magnesium supplement and he was a tiny? bit better - but it’s hard to say since there has been NO steady or noticeable improvement.

The vets want to treat the back issues by injecting with PRP and Osphos, and do shockwave. Student has tried to schedule this but the vet is out with (Ha! Oy!) bad morning sickness, so this will have to wait. Meanwhile, student is due to give birth in a month herself so has been trying NOT to handle this poor animal when he is “trying to kill her” and kicking out repeatedly when touched.

If you have read to the end, bless you!!, and thank you in advance! to anyone who has suggestions, thoughts or insights. My poor student is getting incredibly frustrated - and of course we all feel just awful for this poor horse. :confounded:

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I would follow the vet recommendation

As soon as you started describing all the downtime he has had and then the onset of the crabbiness, I thought kissing spine. They often fall apart when they are not in work. Even those who were ok for years. They just had more core muscles.

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This is totally a zebra thing, but did anyone check his sheath? However, I agree most likely ks.

Have they not x-rayed his spine? It isn’t that expensive to do at the clinic near me that does many spines.

Even if it was clear, it’s more information.

Another thought … What are the chances of errors on some of the tests? Mis-interpretation of some of the results? Seems a lot of the human confusion is that things that would be seem like logical answers have been ruled out by tests.

Who has reviewed all the results other than the regular vet? Have all raw results been sent for a second opinion?

They did x-ray the spine: the results are in the report above. Mild KS - just affecting two spinous processes, but there is also some arthritis there.

This was at VEI - so not sure there are better diagnostic vet practices in our area - they are pretty much the “gold standard.”

The horse was in light work up until he became SO uncomfortable in his own skin that there were further diagnostics done, but he didn’t have any issues before this – and the vets said that this is obviously something that has been there for awhile, so it didn’t just “pop up” overnight. It’s the extreme reactive sensitivity all over his body that’s so confounding and frustrating to figure out - since there has been no clear diagnosis of a cause.

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My mare was hypersensitive to touch, especially on the left side. You could curry the right side but she would try to bite if you curried the left side. Very threatening. Also girthy and would stand like on a Tightrope behind. All over body sore and tried to kill the chiropractor. Diagnosed with EPM via blood work at Pathogenes and treated with oragen and lavamasol. Got better, but still nqr. Further testing showed polyneuritis. Treated her for that and she got better but would plateau. Repeated the epm treatment last winter. This mare was never neurological. The hyper sensitivity to touch finally resolved, but still crabby about saddling. Then treated for hindgut and foregut ulcers by a vet who uses eastern medicine to augment western medicine, so she got some energy work in addition. That was finally the last piece of the puzzle. You may need to find a vet that thinks “out of the box” as I’ve had some that addressed her crabbiness as just being a mare.

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Given that this started after the antibiotics and stall rest, and the hypersensitivity on the flanks, I would be looking further at hindgut/digestive issues. You might consult with Amy Polkes - she is very good for internal medicine and travels within MD, VA, PA.

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Did he go to morven or VEI?
Kent Allen at vEI is fabulous. Morven park (EMC) isn’t as wonderful as they consider themselves.
If Kent Allen has seen the horse, I would trust him. If it was Morven, I would consider making an appointment with either KA, Chad Davis or Scott Anderson.

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I have an OTTB that is behaving in a very similar way. I’m working with a great vet whom I trust and we have gotten improvement, but I’m interested in following this topic for more ideas. My guy has zero kissing spines, so I’m not going to finger those as a cause.

My horse is better at the moment. We are tapering down from a second full month of Ulcergard, full tube per day (which noticeably eliminates the bad behavior and symptoms within two days on starting it). We have changed his feed. He gets lots of hay, a full bucket of alfalfa cubes every night (he’s out on a large pasture with buddies all day), Vitamin E, and Platinum Performance GI as his only feed. We are starting chiro and perhaps acupuncture on the subtle but significant body issues that he has. We have been unable to address these before now because he was so uncomfortable that he didn’t want to cooperate: not about to have my vet cow kicked! Things are improving though. He was happy to have some chiro done last week.
He’s a happy boy and I hope that he will stay that way.

So my first question would be what is this horse getting for feed?

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Throw me in as someone with a horse dealing with something similar. Curious to follow this.

The one thing we haven’t treated or tested for is EPM and I’m wondering if we should pursue that. A body worker seeing her also had the same thought.

In my mare’s case, something like KS seems less likely to me because the change was so accute, but who knows.

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I think it’s really a crapshoot sometimes. The last time I took a horse to VEI (in 2019) they told me he was neurological so I spent a ton of money on bloodwork and neck X-rays. When everything came back normal they said he was most likely a Wobbler and unless I wanted to pay for a myelogram first, I should consider just putting him down. I took him elsewhere for a second opinion and his neuro tests were 100% normal. At VEI they’d given him a small dose of Ace to do the lameness exam and they didn’t consider that maybe that was affecting the neuro results…? At this point I’ve had both good and bad experiences pretty much everywhere!

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This pretty much sums it up. Vets are human. They have strengths and weaknesses. Both hospitals have interns and residents coming through with different backgrounds and different skill sets. That’s going to cause people’s experiences to vary.

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The mild NQR-ness, the fact that this began to occur in the fall and the paragraph above all lead me to question if this horse is being supplemented with a bioavailable form of Vitamin E? Not sure if you are in an area with year-round grazing, but after years of my gelding getting crabby, unruly and NQR right in the winter, I re-hauled his diet for his feet 3 years ago and noticed after the first winter that he didn’t throw a giant fit while being brushed/saddled in the winter anymore. I had investigated so much lameness/NQR, blanket fit in case they made him sore, kissing spines, saddle fit, making sure he was warm enough, etc, but it turns out he was just likely Vitamin E deficient. His “bad” behavior would begin right around September when the grazing started drying up, get worse throughout the fall and he would be downright nasty to touch/groom/blanket/saddle from end of January-April. By May he was my sweet, sound boy again who loved being brushed. Just a thought. I use Emcelle for Vitamin and its super easy to deal with and one of the cheapest per serving with good results.

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A few years ago was working with a vet on finding a NQR diagnosis. The EPM test wasn’t on the list of recommendations. The vet mentioned it but said that the antibody test is expensive and not definitive. But this is EPM territory and I asked for it on the grounds of “I just want to know”.

The test showed very high EPM antibodies. The horse had obviously been fighting it, probably for some time. Treating was very helpful.

For whatever that is worth.

In higher EPM regions it’s probably worth a look. But as the vets say, if the test doesn’t show high antibodies that really doesn’t tell us much. It’s still possible the horse still has it.

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Morven just tried to get a client to do a full CT myleogram when the horse presented with back pain. They didn’t even want to do x rays when she asked. They were actually convinced it was EDM.
She refused to do the myelogram because he had had a horrible reaction to a spinal tap. (Testing for EPM. Which he had)
End result: horse bad kissing spine.

For lameness, in this area, I’ve found Scott Anderson to be the best and most realistic. I would also trust trostle at Blue Ridge as well.

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I had a rather unpleasant experience with Dr. Trostle - regardless of his experience and competence - but that is a subject for another thread! I’m going to update people on various things and questions they had for the owner.

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Okay, this is what the horse is on: Outlast, magnaguard, 5cc vitamin E (liquid), 1/2 lb. ration balancer, 2lb high fiber grain.

He has been on the vitamin E since starting the EPM treatment.

The treating vet at VEI was Abby Atkins. She is supposed to do the back injections, but she is really sick being in early pregnancy.

I hope that covers all the bases with regard to questions! It’s still kind of a “unicorn” situation, but it’s nice to have solidarity – even if it’s with other people who are dealing with the same issues with their horses. :persevere: Appreciate all feedback!

Well my very good boy kicked me twice in two days during grooming with no warning when his back had said enough after being on restricted movement for a year. He has mild articular changes at L1-L2, right SI changes, and gets angry IT joints from having fused at L5-L6-sacrum. Normally he would not DARE do such a thing. We treated his back, and he’s doing just fine for grooming. So I think I’d let them just go down this back pain route with this horse. Although I might be more inclined to treat those problem joints than do Osphos for one mild site of KS.

Well, that’s the plan.

Thing is that this is a recent change - the horse had none of these issues when she bought him not that long ago, so it’s kind of odd that he has become SO reactive with no reasonable cause, and after all of these various treatments.

Obviously, the injury and stall rest could have triggered his discomfort, but it was not like he was on stall rest for an extended period; maybe a week or 10 days? The vets say it was clearly there before, and for a long time prior to her buying him - arthritis doesn’t happen overnight - and he was on the track for four years. And he’s not just sensitive on his back, he is hypersensitive to touch everywhere on his body! In addition, he’s become more spooky and reactive; his eye is different. He used to be a sweet horse, and now he is just defensive in general. She’ll have these treatments done, and then I guess we go from there! Still, this is really a mysterious conundrum, so out of character for this horse to be reacting this way - and the owner is frustrating to say the least. She’s going to have her first child in less than a month, so is doing the best she can to get to the bottom of this, but it just can’t be her first priority right now.