What time of year do you restrict grazing for lamanitic/Cushing's horses?

[Bugs_s_Mom]

I am helping manage care for a horse with previous laminitis and treated Cushing’s (on prascend). I live in central NC and our nighttime temps are dipping into the upper 40’s but no frost yet. The pasture he has nighttime access to is likely part fescue and maybe part bermuda(?). I have not had to worry about this previously as the former barn owner would pull them off of the pasture for good this time of year (wasting so much grazing opportunity…but I digress). I don’t want this horse to have another bought of laminitis but I also want to optimize use of this pasture for him and my horse, his pasture mate.

The question is, when would you start muzzling or pull them off for a short period of time? We plan to use this pasture all winter but I do know in early spring and early fall grass stores more sugar and we need to be cautious for a time. How long should we leave them off of the grass? Is there a temperature threshold we should be watching? They will have access to grass pastures even when “restricted” but this pasture has the best grass stand and fewest weeds of those they are allowed to graze. It is also the only one with an established cool season stand of grass, all others are 90% brown by January.

[carman_liz]

What is his grazing schedule in that field right now? Is he already in a muzzle and how chunky is he right now? If it frosts I would not put him out that evening, depending on his current weight, or at least use a grazing muzzle. Is this field picked at all or does the manure sit all winter? Can you create smaller areas of grazing with elect tape and step in posts, graze and pick that area for a week, and then move them to the next area?

My pony hasn’t been tested yet, but is getting chunky, I have him in his lot already, which has grass but not the best quality, some weeds and access to his stall. I am keeping him off pasture the rest of this month, some because of his weight, some because I have a mare staying in this month that I am hoping his presence helps with… but anyways. If he is out at all on regular pasture, he is in a muzzle, almost year round. Unless it is pouring rain or when everything is totally dead/dormant, or if it is snowing.

Are you going to be switching turnout when it gets colder out? Do they go in stalls at all?

[JB]

It’s not about frost, it’s about night temps lower than 40, which is when sugars stop being used for grass health and growth. Fescue this time of year is quite dangerous for metabolic horses.

Our sunny days and 38-40* nights recently (I’m in north central NC) are bad news for metabolic horses. No grass without muzzles, and some of them can’t even have that. Even low-mid 40s has sugar respiration slowing down.

If he must go out, then muzzle him, and put him out in the morning, as early as you can, and bring him in by around lunch time. At that point it’s a wait and see game, to see if he can handle that. If he can’t, then he can’t.

[Bugs_s_Mom]

He doe not have a muzzle and is on grass from approximately 6pm to 9am daily. He is about a 5+ on BCS scale, I don’t know his exact weight but he isn’t what I would call skinny and not quite fat either. We do not pick pastures and doing temporary fencing is not an option unfortunately. The entire area is roughly 3 acres of great grass and about 2 acres of ok grass. The 2 acres will not be restricted as that is fairly weedy and crappy grass. We were definitely planning on keeping him off after the first two frosts but I wasn’t sure how long I needed to do this.

What do you mean by switching turnout? They have stalls but these are for extreme weather not everyday use.

Thanks for your input!

[carman_liz]

Many barns do turnout in the evenings during the warmer months, and in stalls during the day to avoid the heat and bugs, then when it gets chilly/cold out, horses are turned out during the day, and in their stalls in the evening. That may not be an issue for you since you are in central NC. Can they wait till later on in the evening to put him out? Will they be in the 2 crappy grass acres all day before going out in the 3 nice grass acres at night?

[Bugs_s_Mom]

Thank you for clarifying this! given our current feeding staff he will have to be restricted from the pasture, we could switch to AM turnout but no one can bring him in at noon, we would have to either not turn him out or leave him out without a muzzle. We are limited by those that can feed. I am the only person able to feed some mornings that can muzzle, I can’t however go every day at noon because I work full time. His owner also cannot go and do these things. We have no problem keeping him off of that pasture as he still has 2 acres of usable but not optimal pasture and we have hay we can feed as well.

Would we be able to allow them back out once temps drop into the 30s? Or should we call it a “loss” with this pasture for the winter? My horse has had ulcers and is managing fine following successful treatment (confirmed success via rescope) so having him off sugary grass is also important.

Thanks for your input.

[Bugs_s_Mom]

I see, we do not stall unless we have to. They are 24/7 pasture horses that can use a stall when absolutely necessary. They always have access to the 2 acres of crappy grass and are allowed the 3 acres of great grass in addition to that. So at night they are allowed to graze on a total of 5 acres. I do realize this could be managed much better and am trying to set this up with the new owners but it takes time.

Unfortunately we have a rotation of people feeding when they can and we can’t dictate when someone feeds other than to say don’t feed prior to a certain time. I am unable to go daily and so is the horse’s owner. We are kind of in an all or nothing situation unfortunately.

[JB]

@Bugs_s_Mom

no one can bring him in at noon

What time could he come in?

@Bugs_s_Mom

We have no problem keeping him off of that pasture as he still has 2 acres of usable but not optimal pasture and we have hay we can feed as well.

that is probably the safer choice, if it’s that, or 8-10 hours on the better pasture.

@Bugs_s_Mom

Would we be able to allow them back out once temps drop into the 30s? Or should we call it a “loss” with this pasture for the winter? My horse has had ulcers and is managing fine following successful treatment (confirmed success via rescope) so having him off sugary grass is also important.

It’s trial and error, unfortunately. There are no black and whites with this. Dormant grass can still be really high in sugar, so while the Bermuda is quickly headed into dormancy, if not already there, the Fescue will be a happy camper for several more weeks at least. Temps in the 30s are even worse than the 40s, because for sure, sugar usage stops, while the sunny days still photosynthesize sugar.

The “crappy” pasture section is a better friend. Yes, each bite of grass likely has more sugar than the nicer pasture, but there’s less total grass intake

[Calvincrowe]

I restrict my IR/Cushings year round, frankly. He only goes out in a muzzle, and then only for a maximum of 5 hours. He is a Paint, an easy keeper (a real fatty) and I cannot risk a third laminitic episode. Can yours go out in a muzzle? That would certainly help the intake of grass.

[jherold]

Is he insulin resistant? Did the laminitis happen prior to cushings diagnosis and medication and he hasn’t had a problem since? If “no” and “yes”, I wouldn’t worry about it. My cushings horse is on full pasture all year and has been for over a decade. No issues. It’s the IR horses that have the problem. While IR and cushings are often seen together, many horses only have cushings which do not require dietary restrictions

[eightpondfarm]

I have a cushings mare. She’s on meds and has been for two years. Injection every-other-week of pergolide. She’s on pasture 24/7 (with access to barn 247 too) and that pasture was recently hayed and what has come up first is cool season fescue.

[OzarksRider]

@Bugs_s_Mom

The 2 acres will not be restricted as that is fairly weedy and crappy grass.

Some weeds can be even higher in sugars than grass. One of my acquaintances had a horse that foundered so badly on very poor, weedy pasture that he had to be euthanized, and he was only 11 years old.

Managing easy keepers can be tricky, and you have to consider more than just overnight temperatures and time of year. You also have to think about the body condition of the horse, medical conditions the horse may have (Cushings, IR), the condition of the pasture, how to restrict grass consumption yet provide adequate turnout and exercise, and what your schedule can accommodate.

I have two easy keepers, and I stall them overnight all year simply because for me that’s an easy way to restrict their grass intake for half of the 24-hour day. When grass is lush in early spring they’re muzzled from dawn til dusk. When growth slows and grass is less abundant, I may let them graze without muzzles for an hour or so in the morning, and sometimes for a half hour or so before I put them in for the night. When days are longest I put them in a dry lot for 3-4 hours to give them a break from their muzzles and munch some hay. When days are shorter I don’t put them in a dry lot. If they start to look a little ribby I increase their muzzle-free time. This summer we had a bad drought and there was so little grass that I let them graze without muzzles for about a month. Then we got rain, grass started growing, and I put the muzzles back on the horses. My point is, you have to look at the big picture and make adjustments to suit the circumstances. Temperature and time of year are important, but they are not the only things you should consider.

[Bugs_s_Mom]

He can’t go out in a muzzle because not everyone that feeds is comfortable handling it and his owner is unable to go every day. He manages fine without one if he stays off that particular pasture.

[Bugs_s_Mom]

The laminitis happened years before the Cushing’s diagnosis. I honestly don’t know the whole story because it happened when he was much younger. It would certainly be easier to just let him go out year round but his owner won’t hear of it so I am trying to help her formulate a plan.

[Bugs_s_Mom]

Thank you!

He is not what I would call a true easy keeper but isn’t too difficult to keep weight on either. When in work he tends to hover at the lower end of a 5 BCS, now he is out of work due to his owner’s health issues and is at a low 6. He is fed 5lbs of TC Sr. Gold daily and 1 Prascend tab at night. He has historically managed access to this pasture for about 10 hours each day in the summer. This is the first year we are using it in the fall/winter so it will definitely be a try and see approach. I do realize my question should have been “when is sugar storage at its highest in grass pastures”. I also know it isn’t cut and dry with these things and the fact that he will receive Tifton hay as his main hay source can affect this, as well at the “treat” flake of orchard/timothy we plan to feed once it gets cold here. All of these will weigh on the decision of when to let him have access to the “good” pasture. The main pasture is starting to brown a little already and in two months will be completely brown so not much to really pick out including the weeds.

[TheJenners]

It also has to do with sunlight they absorb through the eye triggering hormonal changes, so horses can actually have a laminitic episode on dry lots… I got a talking to yesterday about this by my vet because my definitely IR and probable Cushingoid pony had lost a lot of weight and I pulled her off meds because I was worried she was getting too thin (she wasn’t).

However, a dedicated halter with a muzzle attached is not hard for barn staff to manage. It sounds like this horse should be muzzled. Three of my horses are muzzled during various times of the year and they all have dedicated leather turnout halters with the them attached. Other times of the year they go out nekkid.

[Bugs_s_Mom]

It is not hard to manage for barn staff no, BUT we have two people helping that are not seasoned horse people and this horse can be a PIA. They are learning but are not experienced enough with horses and the owner refuses to ask for more than just having them lay eyes on horses and toss food for them. Somehow I seem to care more about her horse some days than she does but I digress here…

I will admit I had no idea sunlight was a factor for the HORSE in this situation! I knew it affected the grass but didn’t know it made a difference for the horse.

It’s a rabbit hole regarding those helping and I am not able to solve the entire situation myself. I stay at this barn because of location, the ability to dictate a lot with regards to my horse and cost. In addition to these factors there is a lack of affordable boarding situations in my vicinity at the moment. I am overall happy there as my horse needs very little aside from feeding and due to location I am able to go out every other day to check on him/feed the farm (4 horses total).

Anyway, thank you for the information and advice. I do know this horse has been fine without a muzzle this time of year as long as he isn’t on the really good 3 acre pasture. If they can’t use it this winter then they can’t and will just provide a little more hay than originally thought (we bought extra this year anyway).

[NaturallyHappy]

Can you elaborate on the sunlight? Would a dark fly mask make a difference?

[TheJenners]

I’m not an expert, my vet just said that the sugars in the grass etc don’t own all the impact and that horses who are metabolically challenged can become laminitic on dry lots because internal happenings. Same as what triggers shedding, I imagine.

[NaturallyHappy]

Thank you!