What To Do With An Old Horse

Okay, just to be clear, I’m not saying that if life somehow intervenes and you are no longer able to care for your aged/unsound/sound for light riding/semi-retired/whatever horse that you should just automatically euthanize.

I am totally, 100% in support of putting out feelers with your vet/farrier/trainer, etc. There are good homes for less useful horses out there, totally.

HOWEVER, when you consider that a huge number of horse owners find themselves in a situation where their horse is taking a drastic step down in workload for whatever reason and they want to pass the horse on, you can see how it would stretch the imagination that there are enough homes that are totally fine with taking over the care and maintenance of something that has fundamental workload limitations when there are so many young, sound horses going for pennies.

I think if it comes down to “Craigslist ad vs euth” euth is almost always the right decision.

I would be much more supportive of trying to free lease the horse out - sure, you’re not evading the ultimate responsibility for the horse, but you are MUCH more in control of the situation and more likely to prevent a scenario where “perfect retirement owner” is no longer willing or able to care for your now even MORE aged and infirm horse and sends him down the line yet again.

Not to hijack the thread, but it really bothers me when I see ads where people are trying to find a “forever home” for their 18+ year old horse that they’ve competed for the last X number of years. If he has been such a wonderful competitor for you, why can’t you retire him instead of trying to passing him onto someone else who may not get even a year or two out of the horse before they have to take on his retirement expense?

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8063987]
Not to hijack the thread, but it really bothers me when I see ads where people are trying to find a “forever home” for their 18+ year old horse that they’ve competed for the last X number of years. If he has been such a wonderful competitor for you, why can’t you retire him instead of trying to passing him onto someone else who may not get even a year or two out of the horse before he’s no longer able to go to shows?[/QUOTE]

Because most people live in a fairy tale world where there’s a perfect home out there just waiting for their old broken down horse and even if the horse ends up on the slaughter truck or starving in a couple of weeks, months, years what they don’t know can’t hurt them and they can continue to fantasize about its amazing retirement instead of living with the guilt of knowing that they chose to euthanize so they could make room for a new horse.

I’m not saying that everyone has to keep their retired horse until he dies of natural causes. I just hate that owners shy away from euthing now but are perfectly fine with sending them down the road to very likely end up in an ugly situation.

[QUOTE=french fry;8064003]
Because most people live in a fairy tale world where there’s a perfect home out there just waiting for their old broken down horse and even if the horse ends up on the slaughter truck or starving in a couple of weeks, months, years what they don’t know can’t hurt them and they can continue to fantasize about its amazing retirement instead of living with the guilt of knowing that they chose to euthanize so they could make room for a new horse.

I’m not saying that everyone has to keep their retired horse until he dies of natural causes. I just hate that owners shy away from euthing now but are perfectly fine with sending them down the road to very likely end up in an ugly situation.[/QUOTE]

If people are in that situation, I think they need to be honest with themselves. It’s hard to take people seriously when they write ads in the manner that I described.

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8064012]
If people are in that situation, I think they need to be honest with themselves. It’s hard to take people seriously when they write ads in the manner that I described.[/QUOTE]

I mean, every time I contribute to a thread like this one I eventually get told that I’m a control freak and it’s not fair to my horse that I think I’m the only one capable of caring for him without resorting to abuse/neglect and how dare I consider killing him rather than finding someone else to love him. So, the “dream retirement forever home” fantasy is strong, even with the COTH set (which I feel is above average in terms of horse knowledge and education.)

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8063987]
Not to hijack the thread, but it really bothers me when I see ads where people are trying to find a “forever home” for their 18+ year old horse that they’ve competed for the last X number of years. If he has been such a wonderful competitor for you, why can’t you retire him instead of trying to passing him onto someone else who may not get even a year or two out of the horse before they have to take on his retirement expense?[/QUOTE]

There are so many of those ads on all the fb sales pages. And if you say something to the effect of it being the current owner’s responsibility, you are being a big meanie head

[QUOTE=french fry;8064003]
Because most people live in a fairy tale world where there’s a perfect home out there just waiting for their old broken down horse [/QUOTE]

Agreed. My horse got hurt at 16, and was thereafter pasture sound, but not rideable. And he was NEVER a candidate for a beginner’s horse anyway. Just a nice OTTB hunter prospect that never quite made it.

So he’s lived the pasture ornament life on my dime the past decade. Not really what I wanted to be spending my money on, but there you go.

You would not believe how many people, especially non-horse people, are shocked that I’m still boarding him. Specifically because they can’t believe that I couldn’t sell him to someone else, or at least give them away.

When I explain to them that any “giveaway” of a pasture ornament is almost certainly a trip to the land of dog food, they look at me shocked. How can I be so cynical, or have such a dark sense of humor? Surely someone wants him.

And that’s before I mention that if I lose the place where he’s currently living, and can’t find another place that I’m totally confident in boarding him, then I’ll put him to sleep. Then I’m just a monster.

[QUOTE=Darkwave;8064225]
Agreed. My horse got hurt at 16, and was thereafter pasture sound, but not rideable. And he was NEVER a candidate for a beginner’s horse anyway. Just a nice OTTB hunter prospect that never quite made it.

So he’s lived the pasture ornament life on my dime the past decade. Not really what I wanted to be spending my money on, but there you go.

You would not believe how many people, especially non-horse people, are shocked that I’m still boarding him. Specifically because they can’t believe that I couldn’t sell him to someone else, or at least give them away.

When I explain to them that any “giveaway” of a pasture ornament is almost certainly a trip to the land of dog food, they look at me shocked. How can I be so cynical, or have such a dark sense of humor? Surely someone wants him.

And that’s before I mention that if I lose the place where he’s currently living, and can’t find another place that I’m totally confident in boarding him, then I’ll put him to sleep. Then I’m just a monster.[/QUOTE]

Darkwave,

I’ve had to explain to my mom multiple times that my injured horse is not something I can just giveaway. She finally got it when I a)quickly ended the umpteenth phone conversation about it and b) explained in depth later that if my horse that I love feels like a burden to me, it’s highly unlikely that someone that doesn’t know him is going to be willing to put in the effort that I do. Thankfully, she got it and no longer pesters me about getting rid of him.

Something to just toss out there . . .

Perhaps we should be educating people that when they buy a horse, they should be looking at not just the “snapshot” of what he is TODAY, but the entire curve of an average riding horse’s life, which might look like this:

Age birth to three years: Project for an experienced person to get him started.
Age 4 through 12: Top years for athletic use in appropriate competitive sport.
12 through 19: Active use, possibly stepping down to use with less pounding.
20 through 25: Pleasure/trail or light lesson/beginner/weekender use.
25 through 30+: Retirement if/how the horse will tolerate and enjoy it.

If at ANY TIME in this life cycle the horse has the kinds of problems listed in the AAEP Guidelines, euth. is appropriate. What is NOT appropriate is euth’ing just so you can go acquire one of the “young, sound ones going for a dollar a dozen.”
If you’re looking for someone to validate that viewpoint it won’t be me! This is not a tennis racquet or a pair of obsolete skis to dump at the Goodwill on your way to the sporting goods store. So unless you’re prepared to make reasonable accommodations for a living creature’s life cycle, perhaps you’d be much better off leasing or lessoning and not taking on the responsibilities of ownership.

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8064390]
Something to just toss out there . . .

Perhaps we should be educating people that when they buy a horse, they should be looking at not just the “snapshot” of what he is TODAY, but the entire curve of an average riding horse’s life, [/QUOTE]

Yes. And I think this holds true for pets as well. When you acquire responsibility for an animal, be it horse, dog, cat, whatever, you acquire responsibility for it through good times AND bad.

When you buy a horse, you commit to ensuring as best you can it has a good home and good life, both during and after your ownership. You can NEVER assume that your costs of ownership will just be routine vet bills and board, and you can junk it like you would a lemon car if things go south. That’s the risk of horse ownership. You have to accept the risk that you’ll end up like me - buying a horse as an investment to sell in a year or two, and ending up with a pasture ornament for a decade. If you’re not willing to accept that risk, DON’T BUY A HORSE.

And similarly, when you get a pet, you commit to ensuring its happy life for the rest of its days. This includes being prepared for mounting vet bills as it ages (not being shocked when your aged pet needs some special meds that you can’t afford because you never planned for it), and also being prepared to make a kind final decision at some point, rather than letting it suffer. If you’re not willing to budget for the unexpected expense, or to make the kind decision, DON’T GET A PET.

Animal ownership is a set of obligations that one chooses to commit to, not an inalienable right.

/end soapbox.

With regards to Craigslist, give-aways, etc.:

I feel strongly that a free lease is the way to go with older horses. That way you CAN retain control and thereby keep him out of a bad situation. Put right in your contract that if the care and use doesn’t meet your standards (and you can specify them), you get to yank him back. The worst case scenario in that case is you’d have to pay board on him for a couple of months until you can find him a new situation, or worst case euth. You will NOT have to toss and turn at night, worried about him riding a possum-belly rig to Richelieu.

NOW: There is a RIGHT way and a WRONG way to offer a horse for sale/lease.
Craigslist, IMO, is populated primarily by the ignorant and the knuckle-draggers.
These people should never have been horse owners to begin with, and YOU who are here on COTH can do a lot better. BUT you have to write up an ad someone will pursue. AT MINIMUM:

Intelligent description of the horse: Breed, age, size, sex, color, and what he’s done. Especially, what he’s capable of doing NOW. Able to be trail ridden lightly is a major step up from completely unrideable. BE SPECIFIC and BE ACCURATE.
Don’t make claims the horse can’t follow up on–like traffic safe, kid safe, broke to drive, etc. Don’t say it unless it’s really true; ditto the required “maintenance.”
Full disclosure is the order of the day. Give good contact information where people can actually reach you, and respond promptly and politely whether the answer is yes or no. Attach good pictures; head shot, well-composed confo. shot, and an action shot if you’ve got a good one–and RECENT, not 18 years ago. Hold the drama and don’t yawp about “forever home,” “heart horse,” or “the truck is coming.” Sound like a legitimate horseman seeking same!

Here’s a good SAMPLE ad (accompany with pictures):

16.1 hand chestnut WB gelding, age 18. Easy keeper, very friendly, great husband horse or confidence builder. Retiring from 3’ eventing, prefer trail or pleasure home with pasture turnout. Vet records available, should stay in front shoes. Free lease, with priority given to Pony Clubber or 4-H’er in the area. Call etc.

SHARE with feed store, all the vets in the area, your farrier and others you might know, the local trail association, Pony Club, 4-H Club, hunt club, etc. 90% of the GOOD deals happen by word of mouth, friends of friends of friends. The trick is to hook the horse up with the RIGHT rider–who just might be looking for him, in all the wrong places. Keep your deal negotiable and don’t expect to make a ton of money. Have a WRITTEN CONTRACT you are prepared to enforce.

Homes like that are out there. Euthanizing is the course of desperation, of last resort. Exhaust all other reasonable alternatives first. There are also low-cost retirement boarding situations to be had now in many parts of the country, that might enable you to keep your old guy happily while having another horse on full board to ride. My own business plan is predicated on that exact market. I’m on the high end, but I know a guy in Montana who happily boarded my filly for $30 a month on pasture with deluxe unlimited hay! :eek: They even taught her to load and did ground-work with her! “Spread your eyes” as my mother says, and see what’s out there.

At the VERY least, do your due diligence to see what the situation in your area actually IS, don’t just default to maximum drama and assume it’s the needle or the killer truck, OK? There’s an awful lot you can explore between!

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8064537]
There are also low-cost retirement boarding situations to be had now in many parts of the country, that might enable you to keep your old guy happily while having another horse on full board to ride. My own business plan is predicated on that exact market. I’m on the high end, but I know a guy in Montana who happily boarded my filly for $30 a month on pasture with deluxe unlimited hay! :eek: They even taught her to load and did ground-work with her! "[/QUOTE]

I guess my concern is that there are VERY FEW places I would trust to keep my horse without me checking on him once a week. I’ve just heard too many horror stories. And my issue is that I live in a city, so it’s almost certain that none of those affordable retirement places are located where it’s practical for me to stop by every weekend. (practical, to me, is no more than 75 minutes drive one way).

I currently keep my retiree with my sister - she’s far enough that I can’t visit him every weekend, but I do trust her :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8059621]
A reoccurring theme in these posts is “financially able”, “in a position to”…

Those of us who fall into that category and are able to make decisions based solely on the well being of the horse should count ourselves very lucky indeed.

But we are in the minority of horse owners. We are looking at this issue with rose colored glasses, and our horses are the beneficiaries.

The thread which prompted this thread was the discussion the pro’s and con’s of donating horses to a school/college/IHSA/Therapeutic program when a horse could no longer do what his owner wanted to do.

WHAT THEN?

I cannot quote statistics, but I believe that most one horse families are just that — able to maintain one horse. When the current horse gets too old or too creaky, and yet buying a second horse is not financially feasible, what then? I don’t think that anyone should feel obligated to maintain an old or “unsound for the intended use” horse at the expense of giving up their riding goals. I am definitely a pragmatist.

Providing 10 - 15 years of retirement is not within the reach of many people, unless they devote their equine budget to taking care of that horse, at the expense of their horsey goals and enjoyment.

If the horse is given away, donated, sold for a low amount, the owner loses control of their old friend’s future. Contracts, right of first refusal, etc, are hardly worth the paper they are written on. If the old guy is moved on from an approved situation, there is nothing the prior owner can do except sue for breach of contract. That is an expensive and frustrating option.

If I owned a horse who was no longer able to be a partner in my equestrian goals, and if I could not afford to buy another horse because I was still supporting the first one, I think I would seriously consider euthanasia. Not saying I would necessarily do it, but it would be one option I would think about. The future is uncertain – no one can know how their old friend will end up. But who wants to play the odds that their horse will never reach the end of the road at New Holland, or in a field with other, more dominant horses who take his food and pick on him until he becomes a walking carcass?

Lady E has said that she will NOT (emphasis hers) euthanize a horse who is not in physical need of it. Neither will my primary vet. – So what kind of dilemma are these owners, who want to be caring and do the right thing, caught up in?

I will never second guess another person’s choice in such a situation. The world is not as black and white as these vets believe. There are so many shades of gray, that “the right decision” may not always be the decision we would want to make.[/QUOTE]

Your thoughts here pretty well sum up how I feel about the situation. I am blessed to have the land to retire my 2 horses when the need arises and still have room for one to ride. I know many don’t have that option ( i haven’t always either).

I don’t think euthanasia is wrong if that is what the owner feels the need to do. I do believe that a vet should respect the owner’s wish, even if they don’t agree. To me it is better than an unknown future.

[QUOTE=Darkwave;8064587]
I guess my concern is that there are VERY FEW places I would trust to keep my horse without me checking on him once a week. I’ve just heard too many horror stories. And my issue is that I live in a city, so it’s almost certain that none of those affordable retirement places are located where it’s practical for me to stop by every weekend. (practical, to me, is no more than 75 minutes drive one way).

I currently keep my retiree with my sister - she’s far enough that I can’t visit him every weekend, but I do trust her :)[/QUOTE]

The cowboy used to feed by unspooling a round bale off a moving truck and spreading it out on the ground for the horses; guess whose mare thinks chasing trucks is her greatest joy to this very day! :lol: Seriously, the care there was GREAT and they sent me pictures whenever I asked. This was in the Yellowstone country, and the baby was born there and wintered over till the passes opened and we could ship her East. She thinks she’s been slumming ever since . . . not much Open Range in CT!

And how many free leases go bad? A LOT. I’ve known of a number and I believe the OP had a horse in what seemed liked a great situation, and was at first but it went bad at some point.

Just because people are petrified of death, doesn’t mean your horse is as well. Horses are scared of pain, cruelty (if they’ve been exposed to it) and lack of appropriate life sustaining resources (mine are scared of lack of treats, which they think fall into that category. :))

Honestly, tell me what is different to a horse if it’s PTS at 16 vs. 26?

LH – I haven’t read through all the responses yet, but I think you are absolutely spot on with your thoughts on how best to take care of our friends at the end.

I don’t know how many COTH’ers are still here that remember all the way back to 2005, when LH posted Sam, the Incredible Vibrating Horse, on the Giveaways Forum, but I am the one that she placed Sammy with. This is a half (well, 3/4 brother really, since he was his brother AND his uncle! :lol: ) brother to her precious George, and she earned another ring on her halo when she found him racing in the cheap claimers in the Southwest and brought him home. Once he felt better, he didn’t want to retire, and I was lucky enough to be chosen to be his forever Mom.

Sam is now 20, and he’s spent his last ten years mostly retired with me. He schooled a little bit jumping with Ralph Hill, and then life got in the way, and I did a little bit of limited distance/endurance with him, and then, after I did new x-rays of his fetlocks (they look as if someone hit them with a baseball bat - track injuries), he retired completely.

He has had a terrible time with his feet over the last two years – we’ve gotten to the edge of euthanasia twice, only to have him look me in the eye and say “nope, I’m not done!”

But, I can maintain him at home, on my own property, and I have a fabulous farrier who makes the Sammy special hospital plates out of fiberglass and charges no more than regular shoes. If I were in a boarding situation, the choices would be so much harder to make.

But, I can tell you, with the other challenges that Sam has, should any need for surgery, or anything that would require shipping him to the vet school arise, I will make that call sooner, rather than go through it, and that decision was made easier for me by seeing what you went through with Bear.

I love him so much that I’d choose to let him leave this world rather than suffer any more than I can prevent. I spent many hours feeling awful as I watched him hurt so much when his feet first flared up, and everyone told me to give him time, and to let him fight back. I did then, and I’m glad, but the next time or if surgery were involved? I’ll make the tough choice to let him go peacefully, even though it will break my heart.

LH – you are one of the best horse owners (and people in general!) I’ve ever had the honor of knowing, and the fact that you trusted me with one of your horses makes me so proud.

Sammy says thank you. Thank you for saving him, and having the good judgment to place him somewhere he could live the rest of his life, demanding his dinner and bossing the help around. <3 And thank you for sharing what you learned with Bear, as that makes my eventual decision making process easier. :sadsmile:

Well, Bensmon, now I am crying. :slight_smile:

YOU are the gift of life for Sammy. He was very lucky when you came all the way from Fla to Ky, pulling your trailer, for the chance to be interviewed by him. And, aren’t I glad that he thought you would make a good mother for him. :smiley:

Your kindness for taking Sammy into your home and heart AND you make great saddle soap. How many wonderful qualities can one person have. :slight_smile:

I won’t bore people with the rescue and rehab of Sammy, but I will post the before and after picks, lest some posters think I am some sort of equine Dr. Kevorkian.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/PeteyPuppy/Sambeforeandaftercollage_zps4af1bcad.png

I really DO think that every horse deserves a good life and a long one, if that is in his best interest. Being a proponent of humane euthanization doesn’t mean that I don’t want try to do the best for every horse who comes into my life. I just believe that sometimes “the best” is to let them go.

I guess my motto is: “Better a week too soon than a day too late.” I am just sorry that I had not figured out what I believed in until after Bear had to suffer for 4 weeks.

[QUOTE=RugBug;8064709]
And how many free leases go bad? A LOT. I’ve known of a number and I believe the OP had a horse in what seemed liked a great situation, and was at first but it went bad at some point.

Just because people are petrified of death, doesn’t mean your horse is as well. Horses are scared of pain, cruelty (if they’ve been exposed to it) and lack of appropriate life sustaining resources (mine are scared of lack of treats, which they think fall into that category. :))

Honestly, tell me what is different to a horse if it’s PTS at 16 vs. 26?[/QUOTE]

And what “difference” would it make to you if your husband decides you’re gonna hit the dirt just 'cause he wants something flashier now you’ve hit 41, eh? :rolleyes: After all, you’ve had a good life with him, what does he owe you? Women have no intellect, after all! :lol: Few centuries back, guys actually thought like that! I have a medical book from the 1950’s where they seriously asked the question, "Are women people?" Horses aren’t people, of course, BUT:

Kills me when people think they know what goes on in a horse’s, or any animal’s, head. How the heck do you think you know they have no sense of past, future, or caring if or when they live or die? They see, hear, breathe, pee, and perceive pain, stress and fear not that differently from the way we do; I’ve seen no empirical evidence that their sense of time differs. They have eidetic memories, and can certainly anticipate the future with respect to feeding time and other favorite things. I think they can tell time better than I can! They have a demonstrably strong will to survive.

Given the above, I have to logically assume that if an animal is not in extremis with unendurable pain, it wants to see the sun rise tomorrow and have the next meal just like we do. You are not euthanizing them, which is mercy killing to end unbearable suffering. What you’re doing is killing them for your own convenience, and trying to rationalize it by claiming things you can’t possibly know to make it all neat and tidy in your comfort zone. That may be your choice, but OWN IT and don’t call it “euthanasia.”

A free-lease that doesn’t work out is called a “do-over.” Which is why you do it that way to begin with–to retain control over the animal’s circumstances.

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8065046]
And what “difference” would it make to you if your husband decides you’re gonna hit the dirt just 'cause he wants something flashier now you’ve hit 41, eh? :rolleyes: After all, you’ve had a good life with him, what does he owe you? Women have no intellect, after all! :lol: Few centuries back, guys actually thought like that! I have a medical book from the 1950’s where they seriously asked the question, "Are women people?" Horses aren’t people, of course, BUT:

Kills me when people think they know what goes on in a horse’s, or any animal’s, head. How the heck do you think you know they have no sense of past, future, or caring if or when they live or die? They see, hear, breathe, pee, and perceive pain, stress and fear not that differently from the way we do; I’ve seen no empirical evidence that their sense of time differs. They have eidetic memories, and can certainly anticipate the future with respect to feeding time and other favorite things. I think they can tell time better than I can! They have a demonstrably strong will to survive.

Given the above, I have to logically assume that if an animal is not in extremis with unendurable pain, it wants to see the sun rise tomorrow and have the next meal just like we do. You are not euthanizing them, which is mercy killing to end unbearable suffering. What you’re doing is killing them for your own convenience, and trying to rationalize it by claiming things you can’t possibly know to make it all neat and tidy in your comfort zone. That may be your choice, but OWN IT and don’t call it “euthanasia.”

A free-lease that doesn’t work out is called at “do-over.” Which is why you do it that way to begin with–to retain control over the animal’s circumstances.[/QUOTE]
Agree with this :slight_smile:

Also, there are so many way to lease your horse especially if the horse is serviceable sound, even just as a trail horse.

Even a part lease can work out great. Keep the horse at home/at your regular barn. Your horse/your rules but someone else contributes to the bills for a portion of the horses time.

Some examples where I’ve seen this work really well:

The Mum who stopped riding for kids and was grateful for the relatively inexpensive opportunity to ride a couple time per week.

The older lady whose lifetime (human) riding buddy list her horse at didn’t want to buy another. Again, grateful to part lease an older horse.

ME, when I was 19 and couldn’t even dream of affording a horse. Part-leased an older TB who had been a National Champion in his day (jumping and eventing) and took very good care of me as I learned how not to make mistakes over the bigger fences. Horse was also happier than an pig in sh*t to drop down a few levels but still ‘work’ a few days a week.

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8065046]

A free-lease that doesn’t work out is called at “do-over.” Which is why you do it that way to begin with–to retain control over the animal’s circumstances.[/QUOTE]

A free lease that doesn’t work out is often called a dead horse or one that has suffered a lot. Ask FlashGordon about her free lease situation.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh…t-can-go-(-(-(

Luckily, FG got involved before the horse died, but it wasn’t pretty…and this happens all the time. Would Fancy have been better off being put down? quite possibly.

Just because you are too emotionally involved to separate yourself from what really counts, doesn’t mean the rest of us are. Death is NOT the worst thing that could happen.