I agree too if it is the best way to go in a situation, but if they are healthy and sound, they deserve that great retirement! 
My Saddlebred mare I’ve been told is a miracle horse, she just turned 30 years old and is still going strong. No health problems, and we even go on rides daily with a good canter. Even if it’s not a riding day, we just walk over poles or go for a walk to stretch the legs. I think this is really important to keep them moving and mobile so they are in shape and you can monitor their health too (especially in winter for those joints!). In all, I think it amounts to how much the owner puts in and shows the horse that there is so much more life left in them and really puts effort into a good relationship, because in the end they really, really do apprieciate you making their last years the best. My girl was living alone and was getting thin and looking upset and had we not moved her to a boarding place I think she would have passed. She came off the trailer and lost twenty years, running around and calling like crazy to all the new friends around her. Today, she has packed on some more pounds, has made many new friends and is loved by all. Everyone is amazed at the age of my girl and I believe she has many more years left in her with lots of love. Don’t ever underestimate the willpower of an older horse, they can be the best companions if you give them a second chance.
A couple of years ago I had to put down my 30yr old best friend. Had him for over 23 years. It wasn’t my choice, it was his. Damn him anyways. As with many older horses they don’t go quietly into the night like we wish they’d do. I had him cremated and he now lives on my buffet. He wasn’t riding sound for years (for my adult weight) but was managed and in no visible discomfort and was in great weight.
He had large field, friends and as many peppermint as he could eat, warm stall and oodles of blankets. But I have my own place so I was able to keep him with me. He was the reason to get up in the morning. To see that happy face.
I’d have given my right eye for that boy if he’d live another day.
That being said, hindsight’s 20/20 and I regret not having him euthanized on a good day, instead of in distress. I feel that he gave me so much happiness that I owed him that. But every day that he was alive was another blessing. (As I always think of the worst). I perhaps waited too long but his body and mind seemed just fine. It’s hard to know.
But now that I have a couple coming up to their twenties, I have to stay aware of their aging and maybe pick a good day, before they have to go through something terrible. But again, I don’t have to think about boarding and other costs. I just feel, since I’m able to, they deserve a great retirement.
But I know not everyone can. I’d rather euthanize than send out an older horse to an unknown fate.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8062250]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.
For the record, I am also agaisnt anyone who euthanizes a horse because he is no longer useful and it is convenient.
BUT, how many people actually do this? WHY would you spend money to euthanize a horse which could be sold (for $$)? Why would you spend money to euthanize a horse who could be given away (to a decent home, such that the owner would not worry or feel guilty about the horse’s eventual happiness)?
Anyone who would euthanize a horse instead of selling it or giving it away to a good situation is wacko crazy because it makes no sense to do so.
99% of people who move on to another horse would only euthanize if selling or giving away are not viable options. I mean, just look at all the people on Craig’s list who are trying to sell or give away horses! It is EASIER and CHEAPER to sell or give away. And yet those choices also often considered the “humane” options.
Sometimes the humane option is the hard (and costly) option. I cannot envision a situation where a horse is euthanized because it is the easy option.[/QUOTE]
I posted the following example in post 19. Copying and pasting here:
Youngish (7-8?) TB, sound but a handful and not a good match for his owner. After minimal attempt to sell/re-home without success, owner planned to euthanize horse. A friend heard of the situation, took the horse, moved him on to a trainer, trainer then sold or gave him to one of her students. No idea what happened to horse after that. Original owner (who was going to euth horse) was blogging about a new, different horse not long after.
This is an example of someone who would euth a horse instead of working harder to sell or give it away. Yes, you have the expenses for the vet and disposal, but this is someone who boarded at a mid-range barn in a fairly urban area. What the owner would have saved NOT paying board for one month would have covered the costs.
In the above example, it was a trainer who knew of the situation and did the networking to find the horse a temporary home with my friend - owner had the vet call and disposal scheduled. I was not close the owner side of the situation, but the impression I had at the time (and it was years ago) was that owner was just ready to be DONE with that particular horse.
I agree this course of action is NOT the first choice for the majority of owners who want to get out from under a horse, but it was fairly near the top of the list for this owner.
I was faced with making a similar decision on my older TB a couple of years ago
He was 16 at the time, and I had changed my focus to dressage. This horse LOVED to jump, to the point where he would jump the jumps all by himself in the arena if you turned him out in it. I tried to make him a dressage horse and he was miserable. We had never had bad rides until that point, and they turned into him becoming so sour that I would get off mid ride and call it a day - thats when I knew he wasn’t happy in his work.
I tried the lease/sale route for over a year with him, but as an older horse that needed maintenance (front shoes and hock injections as well as regular chiro to keep him happy) most buyers would shy away. He also was the worst horse to hack, he would jig endlessly, flip his head, shake if there were any bugs, and was so spooky that there wasn’t a moment of relaxation for either of us.
I tried retirement board for him, and living outside made him even more miserable. He would pace the fence endlessly, became a stressed out mess when turnout arrangements would change, and eventually tried barging out the gate when people would come at feed time.
I realized that he was truly miserable and wasn’t sure what to do. I had him for sale for next to nothing, only to ensure that someone wouldn’t just pick him up and send him to meat for the money, and no bites. I asked my vet if she thought that euthanasia might be an option as I didn’t want him to end up in a bad situation, hurt or suffering, and he was so desperately unhappy. She told me that was a bit of an ethical gray area and she didn’t really know if she was comfortable doing it.
Long story short, I found him a perfect home through a friend of my vet, he is a semi-retired horse for a young girl, she gets on a pokes him around a couple times a month. He has a stall, and people and I couldn’t be happier. Thankfully it was a good outcome, but it may not have ended up that way. I would have rather euth’ed him than know he was getting the legs jumped off of him, or was on a slaughter truck for $500 bucks.
[QUOTE=Groom&Taxi;8062595]
I posted the following example in post 19. Copying and pasting here:
Youngish (7-8?) TB, sound but a handful and not a good match for his owner. After minimal attempt to sell/re-home without success, owner planned to euthanize horse. A friend heard of the situation, took the horse, moved him on to a trainer, trainer then sold or gave him to one of her students. No idea what happened to horse after that. Original owner (who was going to euth horse) was blogging about a new, different horse not long after.[/QUOTE]
So, I’m reading about a dime-a-dozen, green-for-its-age TB that is admittedly a handful that you* lost track of. And you have reason to believe that this horse ultimately landed in a better situation than a quick and painless death while it was still sound and not in chronic pain from injury, neglect or overuse?
So, yeah, this owner sucks. She should have put the horse in training for a couple of months or something to make him more marketable. But unless the trainer flipped him into a marketable horse, I don’t think passing him down the line is going to end better for him.
TRAIN YOUR* HORSES. DO NOT JUST LET THEM SIT IN YOUR BACKYARD UNTIL THEY’RE GREENBROKE 12 YEAR OLDS. PROVIDE THEM WITH MARKETABLE SKILLS. If you don’t do these things, euthanasia is often a kinder option than passing them to someone else.
*Yes, I’m aware that you are not the owner. I’m not blaming you directly for this situation, I’m just questioning your interpretation of it.
[QUOTE=french fry;8062637]
So, I’m reading about a dime-a-dozen, green-for-its-age TB that is admittedly a handful that you* lost track of. And you have reason to believe that this horse ultimately landed in a better situation than a quick and painless death while it was still sound and not in pain?
TRAIN YOUR* HORSES. DO NOT JUST LET THEM SIT IN YOUR BACKYARD UNTIL THEY’RE GREENBROKE 12 YEAR OLDS. PROVIDE THEM WITH MARKETABLE SKILLS. If you don’t do these things, euthanasia is often a kinder option than passing them to someone else.
*Yes, I’m aware that you are not the owner. I’m not blaming you directly for this situation, I’m just questioning your interpretation of it.[/QUOTE]
You are correct - I have no idea where the horse ultimately ended up. I do know that the situation he was in immediately after my friend moved him on was a good one, and because of that, I have reasonable hope that he went down a good road. The horse was also not completely untrained - he was going W/T/C and popping over jumps and had been to eventing clinics with owner who was going to put him down. My daughter rode him a time or two when he was at my friend’s place and would have loved to take him on if we had been in a position to do so. From what I saw of the horse, he did not seem exceptionally difficult, but I’m guessing he had his moments that resulted in the “bad match”.
I went back to that particular example because this was a situation where the PTS solution seemed to have been CHOSEN by the owner as the most expedient option after (reportedly) fairly minimal effort on owner’s part to sell or re-home. Pure speculation, but I am guessing that he could have been successfully sold if owner had put him in a “train to sell” situation with a decently regarded trainer - but that would have cost owner more time and money.
Agreed. The owner sucks for taking minimal effort but I’m not so sure “we lost track of the horse” means it’s situation has ended up any better than it would have with a quick and painless death.
[QUOTE=JustABay;8062621]
I realized that he was truly miserable and wasn’t sure what to do. I had him for sale for next to nothing, only to ensure that someone wouldn’t just pick him up and send him to meat for the money, and no bites…[/QUOTE]
The horse I own is not a good match for me, and I also tried selling him (he was 17 at the time, totally sound and a schoolmaster) with zero takers. I ended up free leasing him to a 20 year old Pony Clubber who won her dressage rally with him the first week she had him. She rides him six days a week, often bareback, and adores him. I’m FB friends with her Mom and see regular videos of the two.
I guess the downside to free leasing is that the horse comes back, but I think – even though it can be a disaster – it can be a great option for the older-but-not-ready-to-be-retired horse.
My friend retired her ex- show horse to a farm with pasture /run in shed board and he is doing great. She found a low cost half lease on a dressage horse whose owner did not have time to ride but did not want to sell. There are ways…
I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but one of the toughest decisions is what to do with a young-ish horse that needs a period of rehab (total stall rest) with an uncertain prognosis. Several friends have gone through this. One has had her horse on stall rest for almost a year, and the horse is doing okay. Another tried for two weeks and the horse couldn’t tolerate it (was miserable). I also know people who just know their horse would be miserable. Sometimes I think people who give it a try do it more for themselves than for the horse, and I’m afraid that’s what I would do, even though my head tells me making the hard choice upfront might be more humane.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8062250 For the record, I am also agaisnt anyone who euthanizes a horse because he is no longer useful and it is convenient.
BUT, how many people actually do this? WHY would you spend money to euthanize a horse which could be sold (for $$)? Why would you spend money to euthanize a horse who could be given away (to a decent home, such that the owner would not worry or feel guilty about the horse’s eventual happiness)?
Anyone who would euthanize a horse instead of selling it or giving it away to a good situation is wacko crazy because it makes no sense to do so. .[/QUOTE]
One of the wackos here. I would put down a horse before giving him away. In my experience, giving a horse away means a BAD end. You can’t believe the person telling you they will keep him forever or call you to come get him when they don’t want him. They LIE!! This along with their idea of “good care” is sadly laughable. Even folks who KNOW BETTER, don’t make an extra effort in attention to the horse, quality feed, even a daily check to make sure he is in the field!!
I REALLY think our care is pretty minimal, not time consuming so we are done with less than 2 hours a day for 6 horses, no riding. Horses are all stalled daily, looked over, handled, not run in and out, stalls cleaned daily. Adds up to 20 minutes each per day. Still doesn’t take THAT MUCH time to care for them all.
Yet other folks I know, can’t even put that much time into horse care with ONE animal. They seldom touch horse unless actually going riding, stall or run-in MIGHT get cleaned weekly, if horse is lucky. Blanket is on in Fall, comes off in Spring. Often is never checked between those dates for strap adjustment, wet inside, twisted on horse. Same folks have #*^& facilities to keep horses in, with fences falling down, too small of paddocks and fields. Their present animals are
always healing or getting hurt again, because the location is not kept up. No time or money for that, since money needs to be spent on a new truck or show clothing! Often the Vet and Farrier care is poor or non-existant to go with the rest of their low standards of horse keeping.
Add into that my horses are NOT beginner animals, though well trained and kindly, hard workers. They will take advantage of a handler with no knowledge or skills in dealing with large, SMART horses. They are not broke for just anyone to ride, I don’t have “packers” because these horses are for our enjoyment, not babysitters. We call them “horsemen’s horses” because they are a joy to the good rider who wants responsive animals under the saddle in whatever activity they do. For the average, not greatly skilled horse rider, they might be scary because they respond “too well”, not afraid to go where aimed at any speed. And they move BIG, which can be frightening if you haven’t ridden large horses before. Has scared off some buyers in the past, when we had a horse to sell. Those folks didn’t even get all the way around the ring before halting and getting off.
So I would not be giving any of my horses away. Yes, if I can’t keep them, they will be put down to prevent future abuse. Hang the loss of money for them. Guess that makes me “selfish” about not sharing my equines, but that is how it goes.
I have not seen any good endings with horses being passed along. People’s situations change, loss of income, divorce, College needs, so they are not the people you trusted with your older animal. I will NOT let my horses suffer, get hurt, out of my hands with rough handling, unskilled riders. I developed these horses to be trusting of the people holding their reins, do what I ask even if it looks scary. Horses have strong personalities, but always willing to do as the human asks, and that WILL get them hurt in the wrong hands.
goodhors, you prove my point:
99% of people will not " spend money to euthanize a horse who could be given away [B](to a decent home, such that the owner would not worry or feel guilty about the horse’s eventual happiness)?"
[/B]You have given many reasons why would always worry about the horse’s eventual happiness.
Ergo, you are part of the 99% of people who have a reason to euthanize rather than sell or give away.
That is why I said that 99% of the people would rule out alternatives before considering euthanization.
Oh, look. Five horses that should probably be euthed.
http://www.horsenation.com/2015/03/16/5-free-horses-in-search-of-forever-homes-2/
Guess bad experiences will do that to a person. Bad enough that those things happened to friends and nice horses I know. Not going to be sorry later, that bad stuff happens to any of my horses. Isn’t this where we “Learn by observing others mistakes?” Failure to learn about giveaway horses average poor care, lack of good endings, is not being a caring owner!! More like lazy and failure on my part to care responsibly for my trusting horse.
Too many horses, not enough homes with knowledgeable horse folks to take them in, even for free. Cheapest part of getting a horse is his purchase price. Daily upkeep is what will break the wallet.
[QUOTE=french fry;8063369]
Oh, look. Five horses that should probably be euthed.
http://www.horsenation.com/2015/03/16/5-free-horses-in-search-of-forever-homes-2/[/QUOTE]
I saw that and thought of this thread. I’ll not begrudge the owners for trying to find a place for their horse, but the only one that really looks like they have a chance at a good end is the last one. Still sound with a little help, it sounds like. He might be a good candidate for a weekend warrior or someone like me that likes to hop around over small things, but has no real competitive goals (I have one just like him, turned 20 today). The other ones? Well, stranger things have happened. Hopefully these owners vet the hell out of anyone who wants to take them and they all end up in big, grassy pastures. It is hard to go straight to euth, so I can’t blame them for looking another option first.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8061834]
I feel like I cannot rely on a vet/surgeon/equine specialist to sit down with me and discuss LIFE questions. Not medical or sugical questions, but life – quality of life, chance of recovery, pain (both physical and emotional – as you said, knowing your horse – the emotional pain might be worse than the physical) issues. And, yes, financial issues.
I will probably call a different vet for spring shots to see if I can develop a better rapport with someone else. I hate to be sexist, but I am thinking that a woman vet might approach a horse’s care from a holistic POV.
What is strange is that I am even typing the word holistic. Me who has candy for dinner and pizza for desert. And thinks that exercise is mowing a field. :)[/QUOTE]
I think that this is so, so important- having a team behind your horse that you trust with the horse’s welfare.
I have a phenomenal vet. She’s taken care of my family’s horses for going on 15 years. She has known my guy for the 10 years I have had him and knows his medical peculiarities. I think it’s important to build relationships with the farm vets so that I have reliable backups in case of emergency, but while I’ll have another vet take a look at something if that vet is already out, I always want Tip’s vet to have a look at it too if something doesn’t seem right. I absolutely trust her knowledge and if I ask her “What would you do if this were your horse?” I know that I am getting a horsewoman’s answer. There are some vets around here whom I like very much and whose experience I trust to care for my horse in an emergency, but I wouldn’t want to have an “okay, so this might be the end of the line” conversation with them. It’s partially a matter of rapport, and partially a matter of being on the same page of horsemanship. As we’ve seen from this thread, we all have a different line and different beliefs on when it really is the end of a line for a horse.
It’s funny that you mention a holistic POV, but that’s very much what I get from this vet- both in the actual literal sense of the word “holistic,” looking at the complete picture of the horse’s wellness, and also in the connotative meaning it’s acquired, which is often a little along the lines of woo-woo stuff. 
My vet combines Western and Eastern modalities and uses acupuncture, chiropractic, etc. to supplement the Legend and Adequan, and also makes fitness plan recommendations. She and I have had many a conversation about the data behind a certain treatment while Tip dozes in the cross-ties with needles in his neck.
[QUOTE=goodhors;8062953]
I would put down a horse before giving him away. In my experience, giving a horse away means a BAD end. [/QUOTE]
Really? Maybe there’s a regional difference? I completely agree that one has to be SUPER careful before giving a horse away, but I also think that by networking it is absolutely possible. The horse being given away has to be useful, I think, or the odds of a bad ending go up. The schoolmaster I referenced – who was sound, rideable, really well trained, and a 17 h. TB-Oldenburg – was given to me, no strings attached.
I will say, the owners knew me; and I think that even though the horse and I ended up not being a good match, they were right to trust me. Even though the horse is out on lease, he will come back to me for his retirement.
[QUOTE=CaitlinandTheBay;8063520]
I saw that and thought of this thread. I’ll not begrudge the owners for trying to find a place for their horse, but the only one that really looks like they have a chance at a good end is the last one. Still sound with a little help, it sounds like. He might be a good candidate for a weekend warrior or someone like me that likes to hop around over small things, but has no real competitive goals (I have one just like him, turned 20 today). The other ones? Well, stranger things have happened. Hopefully these owners vet the hell out of anyone who wants to take them and they all end up in big, grassy pastures. It is hard to go straight to euth, so I can’t blame them for looking another option first.[/QUOTE]
Just want to make the point that the VAST number of recreational riders, let alone backyard horse owners, have NO “competitive goals.” People who do tend to be younger, richer, and in more populated parts of the country. Sometimes reading a mag. like COTH it’s easy to forget that the majority of American horse owners are pleasure/trail/pet oriented. MOST horses can do that job if they’re not very unsound, same as most humans can walk to the corner for coffee, but relatively few run marathons.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8063850]
Just want to make the point that the VAST number of recreational riders, let alone backyard horse owners, have NO “competitive goals.” People who do tend to be younger, richer, and in more populated parts of the country. Sometimes reading a mag. like COTH it’s easy to forget that the majority of American horse owners are pleasure/trail/pet oriented. MOST horses can do that job if they’re not very unsound, same as most humans can walk to the corner for coffee, but relatively few run marathons.[/QUOTE]
But why would anyone take on a horse with known issues when young, sound horses are a dime a dozen? I’m not saying it never happens, but there is absolutely no way it happens enough to keep up with the FLOOD of aged/outgrown/unsound horses that appear on the market.
And most “recreational riders” and “backyard horse owners” that you’re describing are not going to provide the maintenance that are going to keep these horses comfortable in their twilight years.
I will not excuse or condone the behavior of the owners in the ads I listed. “I used him until he broke and now I’d like to make him someone else’s problem” is not acceptable. The vast majority of horses that end up in these ads would be better off euthed.
Recreational rider/backyard owner here.
I have a 28 y/o that I’ll be putting down at the end of autumn this year.
I took him on when he was 19, and retired him at 20. His arthritis and breathing issues dictated that he no longer be ridden.
There’s nothing drastically wrong with him that hasn’t been wrong for the last 9 years, but it’s the little things. He barely held onto his weight this winter, despite the fact he was getting the same amount of feed as my foot taller TB. He doesn’t lie down much now, because it’s too difficult for him to get back up. His arthritis is getting increasingly worse, and I have no intentions of putting him through another winter.
He’s been my Pasture Maintenance Engineer these last 9 years, and I have him on maintenance drugs to help with the breathing/arthritis, but I’d rather let him go before he loses that spark, or goes down and can’t get back up. I don’t want his death to be filled with pain, fear and desperation.
So no, not all ‘recreational riders’ and ‘backyard horse owners’ try to discard a pasture-only horse or refuse to keep them comfortable until it’s time to send them over the Bridge.
