I definitely agree on this and see it is very important. Can you think of some specific things to look for or ask that can help me/us to see whether the horses come first at a barn?
1 Like
Maybe I should have asked- at what level does your daughter presently ride? From your original post I assumed WTC and starting over fences? So it would be safe to assume that she wouldn’t be on the dead-head WT nanny horse?
Developing an independent seat and the skills to manage an occasional shy/scoot/buck is important but if this is a part of her regular weekly ride at any of the new programs you check out, that would give me pause.
Also, I think there is something to be said for the time period when a student first “moves up” in horse and truly learns to ride effectively. The beginner horse is a saint that will put up with all necessary atrocities of a true beginner (and those horses have a special place in heaven.) The horse doesn’t provide “feedback” at this stage of riding. If it did, we wouldn’t have any returning beginner riders!
Once a student learns the basics on how to use their body and learns the different aids they are often moved up in horse so they can start intermediate skills. At this stage some horses will buckle a shoulder and scoot sideways if you don’t keep your reins, or get tense if the rider pulls and kicks at the same time. These horses give “feedback” and truly teach the rider how to ride. Granted, you don’t see me saying that horses should be rearing or bolting or anything drastic, but these rides are not as easy by design.
Most programs will ask that you buy or lease after this stage of rider development. School horses are under a heavy workload and every horse only has a certain amount of jumps in their lifetime. Most programs will want to preserve these horses as much as possible. Lease options are great for families who don’t wish to buy for their first ownership endeavor.
3 Likes
Exactly! You can judge some of this things from observation. When you look around the barn, can you tell that horses have customized management? (Pony Pants has a special girth on her hook, Old Joe’s grain is soaking in a pan for the PM feeding while everyone else’s feed is dry, the feed/management board is current and has farrier dates and notes.) Do the girls really groom the horses well or do they run a brush down their barrel and slap a saddle on and call it good? A place doesn’t have to look flashy but you will start to notice little things that tell you if the horses are a priority.
4 Likes
Rereading over what you’ve written I would 100% go with this trainer at least for a few months. If the first barn had DD going over 2’ jumps and didn’t even teach her trot diagonals, she most likely has huge holes in her education that she isn’t aware of and that will get her unnecessarily hurt down the road. The fact that she made DD demonstrate proper equitation at every gait before advancing to the next says good things. She will teach your daughter proper foundations that will serve her the rest of her riding career.
8 Likes
OP do I read this as the kid can only afford lessons, no free riding is in the mix? This right there is an issue. IMHO thr best mix is really good precise lessons like #2 but then time to ride on your own, test out what you learned, bond with horse and make friends. If the lesson has to include all this it’s going to be soft unfocused good vibe lessons.
I think you also need to be realistic about what the child really needs right now. Set aside her dream of owning a barn. That may or may not happen, and it may happen in an amateur context, she ends up being a lawyer with a hobby farm.
Think about what she needs now. Is she the kind of kid who thrives on focused physical challenges and has a drive to succeed? Or does she need and want to be in a social situation where she is building supportive relationships with people and animals? Is she bored with the low key less precise barn? Or very happy?
You cant change a person’s basic world orientation and make someone into a competitive athlete if they don’t have that drive. Most riders enjoy their horses with little to no competitive aspect. It’s ike skiing or swimming. The joy is in doing. You don’t need to race to enjoy a day at the slopes or at the lake.
8 Likes
Her lesson level is considered crossrails thru 2 ft at her current barn. Mainly doing short crossrail courses up to small verticals. For about a year.
Good points to think about. She is a combo of what you describe and I’m trying to determine her drive to be more competitive amongst this decision.
She has done some free riding /hacks usually as she earned thru doing chores around the barn weekly. But yeah it has not part of our regular lesson plan. I could consider that in the mix, though, as important.
Riding outside of lessons is extremely important once the rider is safe to w t c. It’s where you develop your own feel and start to understand the horse without a constant input from the coach. If a rider is in a competition ring they need to be able to problem solve on their own without a coach talking them through it.
It sounds like your daughter has good balance and some courage but has developed a lot of typical position flaws of advanced beginners. She will have to fix them to advance. Leg and heel are functional to rider safety not just cosmetic.
Children also pass through different moods and stages. One year they might need a safe social setting and find a more rigorous place cold and lonely. Another year they might rise to a a challenge.
Realistically you are not able to afford a childhood horsey experience that is going to launch your child into the top per cent age of junior riders and make her into a top pro and trainer at 25. That’s ok most of us can’t afford that. You can find her safe riding situations that set her up for a lifetime of horse ownership and enjoyment, and allow her to develop emotionally and socially. It sounds like she’s never had really good precise lessons and may be a bit taken aback that just being able to sit a fresh lesson horse doesn’t make her an advanced rider in the bigger world.
It sounds like coach #2 is thoughtful and communicative, as well as precise. Competent does not equate to mean or harsh… It’s easy to seem kind if all you do is praise indiscriminately and never actually insist on a student mastering a skill. I think it’s worth trying a month of lessons with #2 maybe concurrent with the remaining sessions at the barn that’s closing. Child might see a huge improvement and start devolving a critical eye for how things are done at current barn. Also is there an age appropriate population at barn #2? If so there should be opportunities to socialize with other kids.
6 Likes
Also it doesn’t sound like Barn 2 lady was really mean, but a little off-putting to you OP (no offense) because she wasn’t bubbly and warm. But a lot of great horse people I know are like that. They’re focused on the horse, and really couldn’t care less about charming humans. In fact, I think it’s often a bit necessary to have that kind of private, thick skin to be a pro for long. I mean, I prefer someone I can have a pleasant conversation with, and I need someone who communicates with me, but the trainer just sounded matter-of-fact and professional, not nasty. Conversely, I’ve known horse people who were charming, but crooked as hell, or just weren’t great teachers (even if they were very nice). So if the second trainer cares about the horses, has a good reputation, and gives 100% in lessons, I would really like her.
I think it’s important to know what’s mean versus being critical and fair. I am a wussy adult, and I will absolutely not tolerate mean. Mean to me is stuff like kicking dirt at a student because they made it to a jump in five rather than four strides, or saying someone is hopeless and screaming at them for not being able to execute something perfectly. I ride dressage, so I like the very detail-oriented approach, though, so again, that’s why I am biased in favor of 2.
6 Likes
I would be a little cautious about immediately dismissing what you hear from others - yes, take the comments with a grain of salt, but remain aware of the possibility. I know a number of people, both in and out of the horse world, who present themselves the first time you meet them as extremely nice, friendly, understanding, and never the sort to yell or be catty. Once they feel comfortable around you, the yelling and unkind behavior comes out.
4 Likes
I won’t completely dismiss it. It depends on what it is whether I allow it to change whether we want to even visit a barn. Concerns over a trainers personality is one thing, how they treat their horses, something that happened in the past, etc… A barn my dd really likes more than one girl her age has told her that many are there aren’t nice, etc. But I’m wondering what they base this off of…like one person or a few interactions? Also these girls are trying to convince DD to come to their barn instead. Feedback from a child is different than feedback of an adult as well.
I have a friend who has grown up in the area and around the horse world her whole life. She has a story/history to tell about everyone within an hour radius. Pretty opinionated but so far she has been pretty accurate. With the input I get from others etc it starts to limit the good barns even more it seems!
1 Like
I can’t believe so many of you are saying Barn #2 after the OP said this about it in the first post. This isn’t a place I would want to ride as an adult and I sure as heck wouldn’t recommend it for a child or teen.
Just the “No positives given at all” is enough for me to think this probably isn’t the right place. Would you send a horse to a trainer that never rewarded the horse for correct behavior? The same rules apply to teaching people.
1 Like
OK I missed this part. Good point.
One thing that I just realized about my first really good riding teacher.
This lady was acerbic, sometimes sarcastic, and I did not get much positive feedback–from her. My positive feedback was from the HORSE finally doing what I asked for.
I did not realize at that time that she was training me to listen to the horse. Since I could not find a teacher that was as good I went off on my own, mostly, and I listened to the horse to find out if I was doing stuff right or not. Of course it was up to me to figure out how to do stuff properly, that was when I hit my equitation books, tried things, and when the horse finally said “of course” and gave me what I wanted I knew I was on the right path.
4 Likes
What a beautiful perspective
2 Likes
Thank you everyone for your input here. I really appreciate you taking the time.
My first lesson barn …if one could even call it that! was about 10 kids sitting atop ponies and riding nose to tail around a ring. It was good for a 6 year old horse-crazy girl! I got to be with a horse, ON a horse and grow balance and confidence.
In about a year my mom moved my sister and i to a new lesson barn…i cried my eyes out because i was in love with a palomino mare there…
But off we went… to a saddleseat trainer/show barn. Morgans and Saddlebreds, cutback saddles and a series of instructors that passed through there. I think, looking back, that the breeder/owner/show guy was really really picky about everything…a perfectionist. He (BO) finally landed upon a trainer / instructor that he could tolerate: Mr Dace. AAAAAaaaakkkkkkKKK!!! Such a tough instructor~ as i recall (looking back 55 years lol) we were given occasional positive comments, but for the most part, it was correction upon correction we learned by. The guy was little and stern. Had zero compassion for children, we were (i think) just like the horses, to be trained and molded and adjusted toward an ideal he had in his mind. I remember once he tied made me stop, came over and fussed around and tied knots in my reins for each of my hands so i wouldn’t slide the reins. Everything about our riding position was constantly critiqued and he moved us up through the horses and through tack…getting us in double reins and correct departs was one of his big things. I never fell-for any horse there. They were…not very horsey. They were automatrons. He would ride them before our lesson, and perhaps even after …i don’t know. Barn was immaculate. The “office” was a thing of. beauty…ribbons and trophies and leather and gorgeous rug. It was a show barn of the old school variety.
Fast forward…to this day, my position is always great, i can ride through just about any horse frivolousness… Those lessons, which were NOT PLEASANT or fun, have held me in good stead. If it were me, and i had a child that i wished would learn equitation I would go with barn number two in a nanosecond. If i had a child that i wished would have fun with her peers and like a girlscout camp, to horsebackriding together, i’d stick with number three. They are entirely two different things. I would avoid the dangerous one with poor horsekeeping practices.
edit to add: We( my sister and i) were schooled by rigorous instructors in everything we did. Ballet instructor was Russian (need i say more?). Tennis coach was a big tough woman, who had her ‘signature’ on manufactured tennis rackets. Even piano teacher was kinda on the mean side, and a pro. We learned from the best…my sister and i 
but we learned well.
4 Likes
So - first I’m probably going to be echoing a lot of what others have said in the rest of my post - note, also, I haven’t ridden actively in probably a good 5 years now and have never been super competitive (not always out of a lack of interest in showing. I wanted to do some shows when I did switch to english from western but life happened and showing did not happen. Someday, perhaps!)
Looking at these priorities I would say you need to break it down to “must haves” and “nice to haves.” The must haves are the things you need to find in a barn, period, no matter what, non-negotiable. Were it me, looking at this list, my musts would be: safety, quality training (which in my mind goes hand in hand w/“nice trainer who doesn’t yell”),cleanliness/well-taken care of horses/barn, cost, good communication.
Nice to haves, to my mind, would be: friends from the old barn, distance (past a certain point - reasonable distance is definitely a must but I don’t know how you’re defining “reasonable”) here, trails, indoor in winter, viewing area, IEA (you can find a barn that does shows but perhaps not IEA, per se - I feel like that’s more common in some areas than others), limited sales
I totally understand - but past a certain point: if you want to jump higher and compete consistently, you will probably at least need to consider leasing. Not many barns have lesson horses that jump higher, b/c as other posters have noted, a good lesson horse is worth their weight in gold and they tend to be older. The horse I rode when I was still actively riding 5-ish years ago was a 23-25 YO Trakehner gelding who was my then-trainer’s retired lower level eventer (think they’d mainly done Beginner Novice/Novice and she’d had him since he was probably a 3 YO). I learned to jump on him, jumping heights ranging from ground poles to low jumps/cross rails. He retired in 2016 age 25 and my instructor moved out of state not too long after and life in general got in the way hence why I haven’t ridden in a while.
It’s going to be tough to check all those boxes in one barn. I and plenty of other posters on here can tell you all kinds of horror stories about the not-so-good barns that are out there.
Of the three you’ve tried:
No, definitely no. Especially not now that it’s also becoming a “rescue” (personal note: been there, ridden at one of those - rode at the same barn from age 10 to my early 20s, they became a “rescue” when I was 16 and let me just say those people should noooooooot have become a rescue. And their lessons weren’t that high quality either. Really typical backyard dump of a barn (note I mean no offense to small/backyard type barns generally but this place specifically was def. a dump) - this place you mention doesn’t sound like a complete dump from what you describe, but I would stay far away from anything morphing into a rescue.)
If there are rumors the trainer is a yeller and the personality/vibe isn’t fun or friendly, I’d steer clear. My childhood instructor (at the dumpy barn I rode at from age 10 to my early 20s) was very much a yeller and bully (also bad horsemanship overall, unlike this barn from the sound of it) I was the kind of stubborn kid who didn’t let that kill my passion but before I switched barns as a young early 20s adult it dang near DID kill my passion.
Your daughter is 14 - she might want to run her own barn, etc. now but that does not mean she will when she’s 18 or 20-something. Much as she wholeheartedly wants this now, she might not in the future, hard to believe as that might be for her. Even if that instructor rumored to be a yeller with the non-friendly personality/barn vibe that is claimed to be the norm for higher level trainers (EDIT: I have no experience in high level barns, can’t speak to it, every trainer is different), your daughter, at 14, does not need to be in what sounds like a high pressure program. This is supposed to be fun, at heart!
This sounds like the best of the 3. I’m not sure about the need for the trainer to walk alongside (though as someone who has kind of messed-up hearing, literally was tested as a kid and apparently have a “slight fluctuating hearing loss” that is super noticeable in noisy areas and outdoors, I’d personally appreciate it up to a point, haha). Young trainers - hmmm. I’d honestly look more at how they teach and what the barn owner/manager’s rep is in the area and if that all checks out, of the 3 you’ve mentioned, this is the one I’d probably consider.
As others are saying: prioritize a good fit between your daughter and the trainer. That is what matters most. Safety, quality instruction and a good fit. Everything else is secondary.
Good luck! (I might need to read this thread further - I skimmed other posts and read your first post, OP - skimming subsequent posts if barn 2 isn’t as bad as it’s made out to be that could def. be worth looking into also. Will note when I switched barns from childhood dumpy barn to the low-key eventing/all-around barn (instructor was an eventer/dressage rider, instructor was also barn owner, this was a small barn she was an ammie who did it on her own time and her day job was some sort of engineer, boarders were a mix: we had a foxhunter, some trail riding/western folks, possibly a dressage person) the first trial lesson I did the instructor put me on a lunge line and just had me really work on my position - personally I loved it, as I def. had some bad habits (not as many as I probably could’ve as I was at that phase of reading/studying everything I could to ride as well as I could, so despite the kind of barn I was coming from I don’t think I was as terrible as I could’ve been) just from never having much formal instruction in my life. But that’s also probably not something that would suit everyone.)
1 Like
Well, random thoughts, nothing personal so don’t take it that way.
You aren’t looking for a forever barn and trainer, if you are, you should not be. You should be looking for a teacher who can advance your DD from where she is now SAFELY on to the next levels. Most people go through several trainers, maybe more, as they advance. Learn what you can from each then move on, treat them as a teacher/ coach to advance DDs riding not a BFF.
Honestly, if you are on a budget, its even more important…spending considerable time and money and never even knowing what diagonals are let alone learning them? Waste of both time and money. You and DD want to show, right? Even a WT class is judged on being on the correct diagonal and that skill means rider can feel what the horse is doing. Its a benchmark in a riders progress.
Do you want a teacher to just praise DD and ignore basic position and control flaws? Give her a pat on the head and a participation prize? Be well loved because they are always kind and positive to the point or not correcting something as basic as diagonals so everybody will continue to like them? Thats fine for a Pony ride on a staunch, unambitious schoolie once a week, not so much for riders who wish to develop a strong, safe position and skill set to stay safe.
That screen shot of DD staying on that stinker going up in front trying to duck back into the fence? Yeah, she stayed on, but the point of learning to ride correctly is NOT letting the bratty horse get started with crap like that. A quality instructor will ask the rider “Why did that happen and what could you have done to prevent it?”. Not impressed with suitability of this horse for DD or any novice who does not understand keeping horse between hand and leg and forward…its not that complicated and considered a very basic skill.
DD needs to learn how to be an effective rider no matter how far she goes or what she does. Those skills will keep her safe and confident to just enjoy a pleasant trail ride or advance in the sport. Right now, not where she should be, no doubt that was a factor in the bad fall she had…that should never, ever have happened.
Finally, be careful if what “ they” say. “They” say trainer is a yeller, yet your DD said she learned alot and whatever else, this trainer kept DD safe and mounted on a suitable horse while teaching her what and why. The delivery may be rough but you might consider putting up with the rough delivery, least for awhile-youll be there for DD to help her get the most out id the lessons.
BTW, the “they” here…are they still with the really nice trainer that does not teach diagonals and put a novice on horse that offers to rear and duck back into the fence?
Realize that on a budget compromise is unavoidable. Again, its not a marriage, just some lessons.
5 Likes
