What to look for in a lesson barn?

[darcilyna]

I am looking for input to see if there is anything that may not be on my list.

We are looking for a new lesson barn because my daughter’s trainer is resigning and the barn is basically dissolving soon.

My daughter is almost 14, going to the local Ag-Science high school in the fall. Her long term goal is to own her own barn, horses, train horses as well as run a lesson program. So I’m keeping that in mind when looking that it would be nice for her to learn from a great trainer and also be at a barn with great role models as barn managers, owners, trainers. People she can emulate and learn from.

She also competed IEA the last 2 years and while not the top priority it would be nice to be at an IEA program.

We are trying to hold off as long as possible any need for leasing or owning. She is a middle child and while riding is not inexpensive we also live in an expensive area in general with our oldest almost off to college. So $$$ is a factor whether I like it or not!

Side note issue: I am concerned as my dd is about a year off from possibly starting to jump over 2 feet. Some lesson barns (maybe many) I’m learning don’t have on site horses that jump higher. I’m learning bc they are harder and more expensive maintain. Is that just common and the way it goes? Or should we expect a good lesson barn to have lesson horses who can jump higher availabile?

Our top priorities combining my daughter’s, mine and my husbands are:

-IEA or show season (with showing in our price range)
-does not do a lot of sales, if any (sales horses separate from lesson horses or at very least good communication when a horse is for sale) --her first barn my dd would ride a horse one week and it would be gone the next … More than once
-friend(s) from old barn
-trails or outdoor riding options
-TRAINER: nice and doesn’t yell
-Distance from our home
-Cost
-Safety is priority
-QUALITY TRAINING
-Viewing area
-Good communication with parents and students
-Cleanliness/well taken care of horses and barn
-indoor in winter

I am finding it difficult to check all the boxes in one barn! The more we visit barns the more finding the best trainer possible bubbles up as very important. 3 barns so far and she has had a

1. fine but very distracted training session where they had her jump a bit too high for a first lesson, too many people (and animals at times) in the ring and distracted trainer. Notes: Older trainer with a long history/bio. Well known in local area but now barn is becoming a rescue barn with lessons, it seems.

2. Very technical, specific trainer who was particular down to how dd groomed the horse prior to the lesson and did not let her progress from a walk until all aspects were addressed and fixed, then trot…same. I felt she learned a TON in this lesson! Along with learning a new horse with some quirks in a first lesson it was overwhelming for DD. No positives given at all. And rumors that this trainer is a yeller. Not a friendly personality or vibe around the barn. Horses very well cared for and immaculate barn. Notes: While this lesson showed how much did needs to work on and in terms of her riding becoming better she seems to need this type of trainer! I worry she would lose her love and passion for horses with consistent training of that type. I’ve been told this is normal for higher level training/ trainers though? Strong IEA and showing program.

3. nice, communicative, positive but giving specific instructions (this lesson i could not hear due to large arena and others in the ring but the trainer walked along side and DD could hear everything). Notes: Young trainers with not much of a bio/history that I can find or that was shared. Strong IEA and showing program and the barn owner/manager has a long history/ good bio. Well known in the are.

For any who made it this far, thank you so much!!! I appreciate any and all advise as I am not from a horse background and am wanting to learn all I can to help my daughter work towards her long term goals.

Thanks and horsey love to all

[HokieHorseVet]

As someone who is struggling with issues in my daughter’s lesson program and how to address them, let me encourage you to prioritize a good fit between your daughter and the trainer as the priority only after safety. So many aspects are influenced by the trainer and your daughter’s relationship with them, and it can make or break your daughter’s riding career. My youngest had a lot of natural talent and took lessons for about 2 years before abandoning it altogether. Riding became work and was boring and not fun for her. Older daughter loves to ride and to be challenged and wants to make progress with her opinionated green pony, and we are dealing with a sort of stagnation in her progress due to issues only the instructor can remedy, and likely won’t. It’s been really frustrating for me, my daughter is quiet and won’t necessarily speak up for herself and we’re finding a lot of the lesson time lacks focus and direction. I think there’s a fine line between being too laid back and too technical in a kids lesson, but finding that good match between instructor and your daughter is truly the critical piece. Most of the other stuff on your list would be gravy beyond that! Good luck… It’s not easy!

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

Specific comments:

Hard no on #2. This kind of instructor is inappropriate for almost all kids and only for a specific segment of the adult population.

Hard no on #1. Too much chaos and iffy future of the facility.

Yes on #3.

Yes, it is the standard situation for school horses to be limited to jumping lower heights (2’, 2’3"). Good school horses are worth their weight in gold and hard to find. You need to limit wear and tear and preserve their longevity. Plus, many school horses are older and just not physically up to jumping that much.

General comments:

Your wish list is unreasonable. Do not expect to find a place that will tick off every single box on your list, especially considering your financial constraints. You need to identify a few things that you will not compromise on (e.g. safety, competent trainer who behaves professionally, clean and cared for facilities and horses) and move all the other stuff to the “nice to have but not absolutely necessary” list, because you’re going to have to compromise on some of those.

[darcilyna]

I figured we would need to choose our very utmost priorities from our list to make the final decision. Just listed all for the purpose of this post.

Part of my question (which I guess I failed to write) was what SHOULD be most important in a lesson barn?

[Jackie_Cochran]

To me–upholding the standards of GOOD HORSEMANSHIP, whichever school of riding is taught.

A used book you might enjoy is “School for Young Riders” by Jane Marshall Dillon. It is an older book, first printed in 1958, of a no longer popular school of riding hunters and jumpers, the Forward Seat.

HOWEVER Jane Marshall Dillon is the only riding teacher I’ve heard of who started off TWO eventual USET riders who won medals in the Olympics, Kathy Kusner and Joe Fargis, as children. She gave these two superior riders the basics when they were children that took them to the top of the sport back then.

And, when you finish her book you will have an excellent idea of what you are looking for to judge the level of horsemanship you see at a stable. If a young rider reads this book they will have and excellent knowledge basis, especially as far as jumping and fox-hunting are concerned, as well as the basics of good horsecare.

And back then 2’ fences were considered LOW for hunters and jumpers. I think back then in shows most children worked their way up to 3’6", so that when they became an adult they would be capable of handling the 4’ or higher show jumps. It was another age. Anyway this book is geared for jumping higher than 2’6" by children. Of course adults can profit from reading this book too.

My generation in the hunter/jumper world learned the basics of good horsemanship from this book.

There should be some copies for sale on E-Bay or Amazon.

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

School for Young Riders and the follow-up, Form Over Fences, were the most important and influential books of my childhood. And, even though they are ancient, they are still, in my opinion, among the best horsemanship and riding books out there.

[Bending_Line]

Quality of the lesson horses! Are they well trained, suitable for their target audience, happy, and in good condition. If yes, then by definition you will be at a good lesson barn. If the horses don’t go well, then the instruction is not good.

[PNWSunnyDay]

#1 Safety- when you observe the riders on the ground and under saddle are there safety routines and best practices being taught and instilled? Are the students being taught proper horsemanship and how to be safe managing a horse during all phases of their lesson? (Obviously advanced students aren’t being loomed over during tacking up, but is it obvious from observation that students know how to handle themselves safely? Is there a culture of safety?)

#2 Is a tie for me because from a parent’s perspective the answer should probably be relationship between student and instructor. But my gut wants to put the welfare of the horses 2nd after safety. Granted, if your daughter has access to beautifully maintained horses but the coach is a witch, that’s going to be a bad time. But in the same regard, an instructor that has people skills but lacks proper welfare management is going to put your child at risk when she is told to ride horses that aren’t healthy and will show their discomfort by bucking, bolting or rearing.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Re: Barn 1–I couldn’t run fast enough AWAY from a barn described as a “rescue that also gives lessons and has kids jump high in their first lesson.”

Barn 2–honestly, I’m not as down on it as some, since it sounds like the instructor was particular about horsemanship (grooming) as well as riding and didn’t yell during the actual lesson. But if your daughter found it too technical and didn’t enjoy it, then, there is your answer.

Barn 3–sounds like the best, other than the lack of viewing area, it didn’t seem to have any downsides.

Regarding your priorities–well, in terms of cost and distance, you can afford what you can afford, and you need to be realistic about your family’s time schedule. You shouldn’t feel sick to write checks or be crippled from driving in the car for so long.

Priorities are always quality and safe training, horse care (which includes a decent, even if bare bones facility), and horses your daughter feels comfortable riding. I think you need all three IMHO. I’ve ridden at barns where I felt safe on most of the horses, but the instructor pretty much treated it like an adult pony ride and didn’t give me effective instruction. I know excellent instructors who just can’t afford to keep a string of more than one or two lesson horses before students move on to purchasing their own horses. And horses that aren’t cared for acceptably won’t be rideable (and your daughter is also learning about horse care as well as riding).

In my area, an indoor arena is necessary in winter, and for scheduling lessons, it’s a nightmare to ride out for a lesson, suddenly get a downpour or bad batch of weather, and then have to wait around (or drive back without a lesson).

If your daughter is just in the process of learning to jump 2 feet, no, you likely won’t find a barn that will let you jump lesson horses much above that. I’ve been at barns where experienced students did jump higher on some of the instructor’s personal horses, but these were very confident riders who had been riding for a long time who worked part-time at the barn.

[darcilyna]

Thank you for this input. My daughter is also pretty quiet and I’ve found that having a really communicative trainer has helped. She had a fall resulting in an injury a few years back and I think a factor in how all that went down was the relationship between her and the trainer was not strong … They didn’t communicate well during the lesson.

[darcilyna]

Yes thank you! Seems there is a top 3 priorities as a parent/guardian. Some of those things, as a non-rider myself, I don’t know exactly what to look for… But I can definitely be observant and discuss with my rider after lessons these things.

The barn we are leaving, one horse in particular has been bucking/bolting a bit more over the last few months. I chalked it up to him getting older and having a stubborn personality in general bc he is well loved overall. But it is interesting you list those behaviors!

Side note: my daughter is known to have a “Velcro” butt and it not phased by the bucking and bolting. It’s even been joked about that she should look into riding rodeo bc she even smiles when these (could be scary) things have happened. 🤷

I know it’s not something to joke about but I am proud that she is a strong enough rider to know how to handle it as a rider. It has not happened super often but maybe once every couple of months.

[darcilyna]

Horrible photo quality but this is a screenshot during a lesson where the horse DD was riding was being very fresh. She blamed it on being the first ride outdoors and sadly during a trainer transition the horses aren’t being schooled as they should be. Just posting as a follow up to my comment about about riding horses with some behaviors.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Just out of curiosity, but what did the instructor at the second barn say regarding your daughter’s riding (if you’d be comfortable to say)? If she’s used to riding at a sales barn (you say horses were often sold within a week of being used in lessons), and they were putting kids not yet jumping over two feet on fresh horses, even if she’s not fearful, she might have picked up a number of defensive riding techniques, just to stay on. I’m actually kind of leaning to Barn 2 for a few lessons, even if she doesn’t settle there.

[darcilyna]

I actually agree about at least taking some lessons from this trainer because she did learn A LOT and especially how to specifically fix some bad habits. This trainer could tell her WHY her legs are too far forward, etc. But your comment as to way could be that some these habits came from riding a fresh, lazy etc horse…🤷

To clarify the too many sales was barn #1. Which we also learned was quite unsafe as well. That was 4ish years ago.

We are now moving on from barn #2. Because the beloved trainer is leaving.
This fresh horse is well loved and usually pretty good (but a bit lazy) but is getting older and more stubborn. Rumor has it if/when the barn dissolves he will be retired.

To your first question… I can’t recall exactly all the input about dd’s riding at barn #2 but all very technical things. She put questions to dd. Some examples:

-why is the horse doing that? (They were shaking their head). Then explained often why a horse would do that and things to adjust. How she held the reins and have a lighter seat.

Dd has struggled with heels being consistently down. (We learned she actually had a medical issue which made it hurt! After physical therapy it doesn’t hurt but the bad habit is there). This trainer had specific input on why and how to fix.

She was learning quirks of this horse like they pulled in one direction etc. As well as the trainer fixed every aspect of dd’s riding at the walk before she was allowed to trot. Fixed every part of her riding at the trot. Trotted one pole …not jumps or cross rails this lesson. And was allowed to canter a bit. Fixing things along the way.

After the lesson I talked with the trainer about how much there seems to be to work on. She said she has seen all kinds of riders some just want to get on and jump and that is not her way. She sometimes doesn’t even let them canter bc there is so much to fix.

I wish I had written down each feedback!

After the lesson dd and I debriefed and she realized that some of her training has been lacking especially where she initially learned to ride. Barn #1. Like she was never taught what diagonals actually are only told to fix them!

Barn #2 has had students consistently go to higher level IEA competitions, Nationals etc…so they are definitely doing something right!!!

[darcilyna]

Side note because I’m wondering if this is normal! This trainer told her not to allow the horse to poop until they were done working? Is that common? Like can you actually keep the horse working when they need to stop and go poop?

Is that a thing? Dd didn’t hear her say that but I swear she did tell her not to let them stop and go!

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

The more I learn, the more I like the mean lady at Barn 2 who won’t let kids jump and canter until they can ride competently at the walk and trot over poles.

Horses poop while walking, trotting, and cantering all the time? I’m confused–do you mean at the other barn, riders were instructed to let the horse just come to a stop to, er, do its business? I mean, some horses prefer to, but it’s not a good habit to let them get into.

[darcilyna]

So I wish I was videoing! The horse was still walking/trotting but slowed down a bit to poop not necessarily stopped. But the trainer was like push him forward keep going don’t let him do that

[Jackie_Cochran]

I would do barn 2 also.

The little, itty bitty details MATTER with riding. If your daughter learns to get it right now she will be able to use this knowledge to ride better for the rest of her life, and she won’t have to constantly re-learn how to ride.

It can take a while for all the little details to sink into the rider’s brain and body. At first it may feel that nothing you does really work, but if you persist you get to know how it FEELS to ride a horse competently.

I had ONE riding teacher in my twenties who go down to exactly what I was doing WRONG with my riding. She taught me how to realize that my riding was abusive to the horse and that my bad riding was causing the behavior problems of the horse. I took group lessons from her for three months 45 years ago and I still use what I learned from this lady on every horse I ride, with decent to very good results in spite of the fact that I am now crippled with MS. That lady taught me how to RIDE.

[darcilyna]

Thank you for that. From an athlete perspective we liken this trainer (#2) to a hard a$$ coach who turns out amazing athletes.

Most complaints of her (barn #2) are that she lacks personality and social skills. From my meeting she isn’t exactly friendly but not unkind either just in the middle. I am they type of person who can get anyone talking and get to know pretty much anyone (I have a therapist/social worker personality and mindset)… So barn #2 trainer chatted with us a long time about various parts of the horse world in our area…her concerns with some aspects of IEA etc. She is a person who sees what needs to be fixed everywhere she goes it seems. And one eye was always on a horse while we chatted…making sure they were getting what they needed. All that to say I do tend to understand her personality and that she isn’t a bad person per say just a specific personality.

Such a drastic difference from her last trainer who is the most positive person on the planet! Dd is used to a lot of praise sprinkled in her lessons so it is a big switch. I think the praise will come as she masters things she is taught …but not sure as I don’t fully know the way barn #2 trainer works. As we were saying goodbye she said one nice thing about dd’s riding.

My dd is a sweet, good, quiet kid who gets along with the majority of people. She is obsessed with horses and wants to do this forever. I worry a bit at this barn that she might lose some of the fun and passion. But maybe with better technical training she would get the satisfaction of doing better in shows and the passion and fun would come from that … It’s hard telling the future!

I didn’t write in my earlier post but barn #2 is more expensive than barn #3 and does not have lesson horses that jump over 2 ft (we aren’t there quite yet). Which I’m learning is common… Barn #3 has schooling horses that are used for jumping in IEA and minimal showing but beyond that one needs to lease or own. I’m learning this is normal.

So many factors to consider!
I have decided to take our research process slow and look around at multiple barns in the area … A few more on our list to check out. If anything it’s good for DD to see how different barns work and are run.

Thinking I will have her do 2nd trial lessons at our top choices and go from there. Also with DD starting an AG high school in the fall, she will likely meet kids who ride at different barns and might want to be with them so there may be a potential switch in HS years.

In other words I feel like we are looking for the right barn “for now”.

I am finding much of what makes this hard is all the hearsay! So and so says the people at this barn are mean or catty. So and so says that trainer yells! And so forth. When you meet someone face to face and have your own interactions things can seem quite different. Maybe that trainer yelled bc you were being a jerk? Maybe they seem catty because you yourself were being unkind or catty to begin with.

I ask around for input about local barns…but I don’t necessarily let it stop us from visiting and seeing for ourselves. But it’s hard not to keep the hearsay in the back of my mind…

[Arlomine]

One thing I think you are missing in your list of requirements is finding a barn where: The. Horses. Come. First.
As a non-horsey parent, you may not know that one of the most important aspects of horse/young human interaction is fostering the idea that the animal is more important than the human ambitions. Young girls often are experiencing pressures that cause them to be overly “me focused”, and there are few activities that direct them away from that. Horses can be that for them, or not…depending on the program.

Many lesson barns don’t respect the lesson horses. They are used like athletic equipment. Some are the opposite, and protect those wonderful horses from being simply vehicles for advancement of the rider’s ambition. Find a barn where she is educated about more than riding.

Empathy, impeccable husbandry, correct and safe handling skills, concern for the horse. These are life skills that your daughter can benefit from as much as jumping higher.