What to look for with OTTBs?

[abbylee]

With my current horse not likely to be able to event again after an injury, I’m starting to casually look for another horse and gauge what’s out there.

In my area, there doesn’t usually seem to be horses showing BN/N that aren’t at least 15k, and even then, the results are not often too competitive or it’s where that horse maxes out. Most horses that have done a rated show and are under 10k have something sketchy going on from what I’ve seen.

The majority that I see on the market are either 4 or 5 year old green OTTBs with 3-6 months of training in the 4-9k range, or training/prelim packers for 25k and up.

Financially, that puts me in the market for a greener OTTB, which I have doubts about my ability to handle. I’ve been riding for 11 years but I’ve only been able to do a couple of combined tests and one event at Novice on a schoolmaster since my current horse got hurt right before we were planning on moving up. Knowing that I don’t have the miles as a rider or the experience with green horses to train a horse myself, that means paying for professional training.

What is considered a reasonable price for an OTTB with limited post track training? (Most horses I’ve seen are doing WTC and maybe 2’ courses, no xc or show experience). Is it worth buying a younger horse and investing in training to have more confidence in the quality of training and horse’s soundness, or would I be better off saving up for a more experienced horse? What are good names to look for in a pedigree for an event prospect? Is there a “sweet spot” of training/price point to look for? How thoroughly should you vet check a younger, less expensive horse? How far would you be willing to ship a prospect?

I plan on talking with my trainer in more detail about a lot of these things once I start more seriously looking, but for now I’m trying to learn as much as I can and just see what’s out there. TIA!

[ClassyJumper]

If you aren’t super confident in your skills and experience I would definitely buy something that has been lightly restarted (wtc xrails, 5k +/-). It is much easier to judge their personality once they somewhat understand their new job. Also, buy the brain! Whatever horse you buy is not going to get calmer with training (probably the opposite). My mare was a spitfire when I tried her, and now she is a balanced and fit spitfire – and I love her but definitely not for the faint of heart.

Ill leave the vetting and pedigree questions to others. Your likely to get a lot of different strong opinions. I think the most important thing is to evaluate the horse in front of you and if you would like them if nothing changed. I think alot of time with prospects a lot of daydreaming goes on about what could be but you really have to evaluate a horse’s personality and if its going to be suitable for your confidence level (and your discipline). Good luck!

[FrittSkritt]

If you can, I would also consider doing a free lease on an older horse to get some miles in, if possible. Finding one that will take you around novice would be a good way to save money while gaining confidence. I’d say there are probably a few horses out there who aren’t ready for retirement but could still clock around the lower levels. Even if the horse isn’t a point-and-go ex-Advanced schoolmaster (which would cost $$$$ to lease, anyway), you would still learn a lot while not being committed to buying a new horse to do so.

[Jleegriffith]

I sell 100+ tb’s a year and one thing I wish is that people would buy a horse that fits their goals and not just look for the horse with the fancy trot. People ask me all the time what horses I would recommend and I can honestly say hey this one will be jumping around BN in 3 months and be so ammy friendly but I get a lot of well that one isn’t “fancy” enough. Sometimes as a seller that can be really frustrating because I buy the brain and the canter. The fancy trot is developed over time and while it’s lovely to have the OMG trot, the fancy canter, the fantastic jump and brain all rolled into one it is also very hard to find and is going to cost you a good chunk of change because those of us doing this as a business know they are unicorns.

There are so many Tb’s that come in and just go right to work. We have them jumping courses in just a few rides because they have amazing brains and we just trot them around and let them pick their way around the jumps to show hey they want to do the job. Most of them are so very easy that anyone can bring them along but a good seller is going to steer you away from those that require a professional trainer or something specific.

One thing I try to emphasize is that age doesn’t matter. I have 3yrs that I would deem incredibly ammy friendly that I would pick over 6yrs any day of the week. Yet, trainers seem to want to steer their students away from younger horses in fear that their “personality” will change. That has not been my experience.

If you want to follow my facebook page I talk a ton about bloodlines. I have a very large sample pool because we sell so many horses so you get a good feel for what breeding can do for a horse.

I am huge fan of European breeding and I seek it out. I buy a lot of horses with Sadler’s Well, El Prado. Galileo, etc in the breeding. I am looking horse uphill horses that will find the dressage easy. Tb’s can win the dressage so buy the right ones!!! If they are uphill and balanced to start it is so much easier. I am looking for the types that are just going to be very easy to put on the bit. It is much easier for an ammy to ride something that is easy in the bridle.

At the end of the day there is the right Tb for every single rider but you have to be honest about your abilities and shop for something that is going to want to do the job. I think horses are very straight forward and easy to read about whether or not they are going to like eventing.

[EVneo]

Like someone above said, buy the brain! I can deal with jackass-ery as long as there’s enough smarts for self preservation. The beauty of OTTBs is that they really do know a lot from their being in their wild racetrack world - they just know next to nothing about our eventing world. That can shake an ammy’s confidence - it’s shaken mine a lot. If you’re in So Cal, your market is going to be a lot different from here in the Midwest, where I can get an restarted, WTC ottb for 2k. Just keep in mind that a 2k horse breaks just as easily as a 20k horse. For vetting, from the start tell the vet your goals and what the horse is expected to do. I do overall check - teeeth, eyes, cardiovascular, digestive, skin - confirmation, flex, lunging, pull blood, and rads. For ottbs, I just like to do hocks down and knees down. I do them since I like to have a baseline for any future issues and know what we’re working with inside the hoof.

I’d sit down and do the math. See what shipping costs are and if you can find something proven outside of your area. See what it could cost in terms of a lightly restarted ottb that you’d need to add training rides to. With an ottb that doesn’t have a record and is just lightly restarted, there’s always that risk that eventing is just not the job for them.

[beowulf]

@abbylee

What is considered a reasonable price for an OTTB with limited post track training? (Most horses I’ve seen are doing WTC and maybe 2’ courses, no xc or show experience). Is it worth buying a younger horse and investing in training to have more confidence in the quality of training and horse’s soundness, or would I be better off saving up for a more experienced horse? What are good names to look for in a pedigree for an event prospect? Is there a “sweet spot” of training/price point to look for? How thoroughly should you vet check a younger, less expensive horse? How far would you be willing to ship a prospect?

Sorry to hear about your horse being hurt. :no:

What is reasonable as a price… it really depends (as with all things horses). Depends on whose barn they come out of, how much potential they have, etc… If you want a green OTTB out of a pro’s barn, you will pay much more…

Around here, a decent mover, with decent athleticism, and 3-6 months of training would sell for $5-10k out of a professional’s barn. If I was doing it, I’d probably push for the same price - anything less than $5k and at that point you’ve lost money after factoring in board, feed, etc, for 3-6 months.

I am normally the first person to enable, but your comment about being worried you won’t be able to handle a greener horse makes me pause; what are your long-term goals? Buy with that in mind.

If 5-10k is your budget, there are many BTDT horses out there, that may not have the competitive experience you want but do have the schooling experience you need: pony-club horses, hunter-pace QHs, etc.

Jleegriffith’s advice above is sound: buy the horse you need, not the horse you want. Jleegriffith also has several horses on their website that may be worth looking over. I really like Sarge :yes:

Since you asked about bloodlines, I would concede that El Prado, Galileo, and Sadler’s Wells are excellent lines – but I have to stress these are not European bloodlines. They’re American with an IRE birthplace. I only point this out because there was a big thread on FB about these stallions on OTTB Connect a few weeks back, and everyone seemed to think they were Irish TBs just because they were born in Ireland and/or stood by an Irish Stud.

Sadlers Wells is 100% USA bred. His son[s] El Prado and Galileo are also by USA-bred horses, they just happened to be born out of country. These are really nice stallions, it’s so sad we don’t see more of them here – you will get good basic gaits, athleticism, brain, and very nice horses from these stallions. I also like Kitten’s Joy and Medaglia D’Oro, though the latter I do not think is consistently ammy friendly.

Other bloodlines, for those looking for horses that would be easy to retrain and have competitive movement, would be horses by Giant’s Causeway or AP Indy - these are usually grandfathers in a pedigree by now, at the least… AP Indy in particularly is known for very good brain between those ears. :yes:

I have also really liked the Big Brown horses I have seen of late. He stands for a relatively modest stud fee in NY, and I have seen quite a few of his offspring settle into eventing homes with ease.

Since we are talking NY breds, I’d be remiss in mentioning there’s lots of NY stallions that are overlooked but make excellent-minded horses. Say Florida Sandy, Bustin Stones, Marsh Side, Golden Missile, Bellamy Road, Freud, Frost Giant…

I’m of the opinion most TBs (with no soundness limitations) could do BN/N with an amateur. It’s more about finding the right horse for the right rider.

[Jleegriffith]

haha true I shouldn’t say European bloodlines but more along the lines at look at horses that maybe specialize in turf racing/long distances/steeplechase and are more popular bloodlines for European racing. Those horses are better for what we like to do. I avoid the sprint type horses because they aren’t ideal for my purposes. My eye is drawn more to the horses that look like what you would see in the old time paintings. If you ever go watch steeplechase races study what bloodlines you see. I love doing that.

At the end of the day breeding isn’t everything. People will swear Storm Cat’s are bad but I LOVE them. I do think certain breeding indicates ammy friendly. For example, someone mentions one I have named Our Sarge. He is sired by Yes It’s True. I have had a ton of them and I find they have good canters and just super duper good brains. You start to see how certain bloodlines stamp a horse. A horse I am really liking is Treasure Beach. He is sired by Galileo and so far I don’t see a lot of them doing really well on the track but I LOVE them for sport. They are compact, uphill, good brains and just and natural event types. I am a huge huge fan of Bullet Train as a sire as well. Heck, I think I have so many sires I just love for sport. One day I should sit down and make a list of horses I seek out. I buy a lot of horses on pedigree alone but I do sales so I am not buying for myself. I am just buying horses that I think will be attractive to the market.

I am always looking for a good neck connection. Sure you can create a nice neck but it is easier to get one that is built uphill to start.

[2DogsFarm]

Check out CANTER CA listings.
Prices well in your range & not all youngsters.
These OTTBs have usually been vetted by CANTER volunteers.
Which lessens the chance of track trainers “forgetting” info when they show you a horse.
No slur to Track Pros intended, but my experience with CANTER IL included trainers not affiliated with the organization offering me horses - the equivalent of the guy selling watches from his trenchcoat.

Take someone experienced (trainer?) with you.
CANTER volunteers know their stuff & know the horses listed as well.

Just glancing at current listings my Drool-o-meter went off at a 6yo mare: Just Peachy and an 8yo gelding: What A Hotty.
Then I had to stop looking, because I do not need another horse. At least not now…
And I am in the Midwest :rolleyes:

[betonbill]

Might also be good to look outside S. Cali and into neighboring states. Oregon and Washington have eventing and also a lot of TBs. Prices might be a little more within your budget. Don’t know what Joe at TB Friends has at the moment (N. California), but he might have something interesting. Keep looking and be open minded. As stated above, buy the brain over the glamour. Good luck.

[beowulf]

@Jleegriffith

At the end of the day breeding isn’t everything. People will swear Storm Cat’s are bad but I LOVE them. I do think certain breeding indicates ammy friendly. For example, someone mentions one I have named Our Sarge. He is sired by Yes It’s True. I have had a ton of them and I find they have good canters and just super duper good brains. You start to see how certain bloodlines stamp a horse. A horse I am really liking is Treasure Beach. He is sired by Galileo and so far I don’t see a lot of them doing really well on the track but I LOVE them for sport. They are compact, uphill, good brains and just and natural event types. I am a huge huge fan of Bullet Train as a sire as well. Heck, I think I have so many sires I just love for sport. One day I should sit down and make a list of horses I seek out. I buy a lot of horses on pedigree alone but I do sales so I am not buying for myself. I am just buying horses that I think will be attractive to the market.

I am always looking for a good neck connection. Sure you can create a nice neck but it is easier to get one that is built uphill to start.

So true!! I love the SCs too. I have found the bad reputation they have is not true. It’s all about the management, the one thing about SCs I have found to be almost universal is they are not stoic. That’s hardly a bad thing in my mind.

There was a stallion out by OP by Storm Cat, called Delineator. I believe he stood in WA. He is dead, but was a turf sire. If you can find offspring by or related to him they are worth a look. CA does seem to have some good turf horses.

I hope you have the time one day to sit down and write out the bloodlines you look for!

[GraceLikeRain]

WTC and some light jumping will be $5-8.5k depending on the level of seller, horses movement, etc. In eventing you can do very very well with an honest jumper and plain but correct mover. I see 5 movers score very well because they are dead accurate. If I was looking for an eventer I’d prioritize something that has gone cross country schooling and that I feel safe cantering out in a field over a head turner with no steering.

I’m one of those not wise people looking for super fancy and super cheap dressage prospect, a dangerous line to walk. I’ve sat on about two dozen so far across three states in the past month.

In the process I’ve sat on a number of OTTBs that weren’t fancy enough for me but were amazingly quiet and very nicely restarted for $5-7,500. I know of a super cool TB in GA who is 5 years old and a super laidback 4 year old in SC that are both in that price point with really nice sellers. I’d be happy to pass along their information since I would have vetted either if they were different types of movers.

[merrygoround]

Unless you’ve had mileage on a lot of horses, an OTTB fresh from the track is not for you.

You need one with WTC, and some experience over jumps in the field, unless you have an instructor ready and willing to hang over your shoulder.

Things you need to look for are sound, and sane. Sex, size and color , are immaterial, although many find mares a problem.

[Jealoushe]

I of course love OTTbs having several myself and them being my ride of choice, however I do not think OTTBs are for everyone, and not just or riding but more for the cost care aspect too. A lot of people don’t realize that to thrive many TBs need shoes at least at first, grain, chiro, saddle fit etc etc. Of course all horses need this but OTTBs tend to be more sensitive to these things. Time and time again I have friends ask me about OTTBs but they want a cheap horse who can live outside 24/7 with little grain and no shoes. Of course some can live this way, but majority can not in Ontario. Many need grain to keep weight, shoes and some prefer a stall to being out. So when thinking about getting an OTTB the riding is not the only factor. Also consider coaching and whether your trainer is good with Thoroughbreds because not all trainers understand them.

Why not a nice Qh, Paint, or Appaloosa? Or a pony bred horse who is a bit more tolerant but has all the skill needed for LL eventing?

[Brown_Derby]

@betonbill

Might also be good to look outside S. Cali and into neighboring states. Oregon and Washington have eventing and also a lot of TBs. Prices might be a little more within your budget. Don’t know what Joe at TB Friends has at the moment (N. California), but he might have something interesting. Keep looking and be open minded. As stated above, buy the brain over the glamour. Good luck.

Joe at TB Friends is enjoying a well-earned retirement. He has a few pensioners as pets.

You may wish to contact Sarah at EquineRacers - Rehoming Racehorses in Southern California. She is an exercise rider who works at Los Alamitos and has a great eye (and heart). She is a very good rider O/F (some exercisers are not) and usually has ones available that she has restarted. We have two in our barn, pics on ER’s FaceBook page. PM me for her no. if you cannot find her org’s website & FB.

Take the advice of working closely with your trainer.

[IFG]

Southern California is hard. There are lots of horses in the Northeast around this time of year who are been there, done that, priced at $10K or so. Of course, you will have to factor in shipping. I love working with greenies, and I love the green OTTB that I got from JLE Griffith (with an ammy-friendly brain requested), but you do not sound like that is what you want to do. It is probably worth looking outside of your area, finding something that put a smile on YOUR face, and paying to ship him home.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Cost wise…yes. It is more affordable to buy green (with good brains) and put into full training. If you run the numbers…it will cost you less in dollars BUT is higher risk and takes longer in time. You have the risk of the horse getting hurt…risk that you miss judge the brain etc. But you can also end up with a better quality horse (paid for more in payments) than you could afford after someone else has taken the risk to buy the horse and put in the time and training.

If you have a good trainer who is experienced in these matters…I do think it can be a very good approach. But key is you need to buy the right horse that looks to have the best brain for you…but is also potentially marketable if not right for you. Insure them. And understand that you are taking a gamble. Go into it to learn from the process…and it will be worth it regardless of the results!

[abbylee]

Thanks for the advice everyone! Lots to think about and look into. A couple of things I want to clarify:

By saying I don’t know if I could handle an OTTB, I just haven’t ridden that many green horses. I do want to develop those skills and as an older teen I’m still pretty brave, plus I don’t mind a hotter horse. I’ve leased or owned TBs for the past 5 years, so I know that they can be on the higher maintenance side. That being said, I do like a more forward, sensitive ride, and I loved the athleticism and bravery of the two TBs I’ve evented. I’m not at all closed off to other breeds either, but most of the eventers for sale in CA seem to be TBs or (pricy) warmbloods.

As for longterm goals, I’d like to go prelim eventually but my next horse only needs to be a horse I can go training on, since a big focus will be getting me the miles at shows in general and learning about the training process of a greener horse. I bought my current horse last year (who had a handful of novices under his belt with an AA) with the loose plan of being able to show Novice that fall and go training and maybe prelim on eventually. He ended up needing way more maintenance than I was expecting, and needed to go back to intro/BN and relearn the basics to fix holes in his training.

While I didn’t gain the show experience I wanted to with my horse, I did learned a lot about horse ownership and got the experience of retraining, so I hope some of those skills would transfer over to a greener horse. I know that I don’t have the ability to start a horse straight off the track, so I’m looking for something WTC and started over cross rails. I’ll take a look at the resources recommended, ty!

[abbylee]

@FrittSkritt

If you can, I would also consider doing a free lease on an older horse to get some miles in, if possible. Finding one that will take you around novice would be a good way to save money while gaining confidence. I’d say there are probably a few horses out there who aren’t ready for retirement but could still clock around the lower levels. Even if the horse isn’t a point-and-go ex-Advanced schoolmaster (which would cost $$$$ to lease, anyway), you would still learn a lot while not being committed to buying a new horse to do so.

I’m currently on the look out for something like this! My first choice would probably be to leave a horse that I can show for a year and gain miles and experience on and buy another horse once the lease period is up.

[Brown_Derby]

@abbylee

I’m currently on the look out for something like this! My first choice would probably be to leave a horse that I can show for a year and gain miles and experience on and buy another horse once the lease period is up.

This is a good plan! Actively network with your Pony Clubs. Students are heading off for college and are looking to sell or lease.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

While finding a more experienced horse is ideal…it isn’t the only path. My first event (and my horse’s) was at Training level… on a 5 year old OTTB that had been given to me as a stallion (and I had gelded). I didn’t have a ton of showing experience (I had some) but I had a lot of miles on green horses and had done some jumpers. I had good help in the form of friends that were good upper level eventers. I can’t think of a single TB/OTTB that I’ve owned that has not gone at least Training level (with me starting them and bringing them along)…and it certainly wasn’t because I have some magical fantastic skills…just most TBs are very capable for this sport if brought along correctly. Now winning at Training level is another story…and mostly has to do with my less than stellar dressage skills (not my horses’ fault!)…I’d rather go trail ride or jump

But CA is hard. It is A LOT more expensive to compete and there are a lot fewer trainers. It’s just more expensive in general. I would really talk to your trainer…but my first event wasn’t until I was done with college …and I then brought several horses up through Prelim and one to intermediate (all in my 20s—including while working and law school) all on straight off the track green OTTBs that I did all the riding because I had the skills to bring along green horses that I started learning while still a teen. So I would be a bit less focused on competing…you have a lot of years ahead of you that you can compete. But if you find that great free lease…fabulous…just letting you know it isn’t the end of the world if you don’t.