What would you do in this situation? Using horse without permission

[modifiedequitation]

This may be a long/complicated story, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

My barn is leased by my trainer. She rents out a block of stalls to another trainer who has about 10 boarders(number may be off, not important to the story). I’ll call this trainer Molly. Molly has a young daughter, I believe 4 or 5 maybe, who comes to the barn with Molly sometimes and loves to give the horses treats/brush them/etc.
My horse that I’m currently leasing is a total packer, teaches me everything, and is very sweet. She’s under 16 hands and a kid learned on her before I leased her.
Anyway, back in the winter, most of my trainer’s clients(including her) got COVID. She made the decision to shut her business down for two weeks to ensure everyone was safe . However, I believe Molly was still running her business/teaching lessons to some clients who weren’t exposed. Two days before our barn quarantine was up, I was browsing my barn’s facebook page, as well as Molly’s business page. However, a certain photo on Molly’s page stopped me. I zoomed in closer and I knew it was my horse. Same facial marking, same socks, etc. However, Molly’s young daughter was riding her, with one of the assistant trainer(who was being paid to ride my horse during quarantine)'s for Molly’s barn leading her. I was a bit taken back by the photo and kept scrolling on. There were more photos of Molly’s daughter on my horse, being lead by the assistant trainer. I knew they weren’t from the same day, though, because Molly’s daughter was wearing different clothing, different lead rope, different saddlepad, etc. Now, I understand that Molly’s daughter didn’t have a pony/horse to learn on, and she really wants to learn, but to me, that’s no excuse. I am not a charity and I pay for the horse. It’s out of my pocket, not Molly’s. If something were to happen(I know it was only a leadline lesson, but my horse spooks a lot, and a 4-year-old would not be able to stay on if she got scared of something), but if an accident happened or my horse were hurt, the question would arise, “Why was she on the horse?”. In my lease contract, it specifically says that only me, family members, and trainers are allowed to ride the horse. The lessors could possibly take her away from me, or if she got hurt, I would have to pay for vet bills. Molly never asked me, I found out from the photos. They have never told me to this day, I doubt that they know that I know. I know that nothing happened, but if it happens again, what should i do??

[Fiesta01]

I wouldn’t wait for it to happen again. I would go directly to Molly and the Asst Trainer involved and inform them in no uncertain terms that it will not happen again.

I would be very business-like in my approach and make it a declarative statement with no input from them allowed. Just the facts. Period.

I would also start a record for yourself to remind you of what you said and when in case another problem arises.

[chestnutmarebeware]

Honestly, your trainer has nothing to do with this issue. It’s up to you, and you alone, to lay down the law. Tell Molly that this is unacceptable, period.

[beowulf]

I would inform your trainer in person first before you have a discussion with Molly. Not because it is your trainer but because your trainer is responsible for Molly. She leased out blocks of stalls to Molly and is culpable for Molly’s behavior. I would not ask your trainer for guidance; I would instead inform your trainer that you found out that Molly is using your horse as her daughter’s lesson pony. The ball is in your trainer’s court on whether she can still tolerate leasing stalls to Molly – but I know if it was me, the second that kind of behavior happened in my barn that trainer would be O U T.

It is absolutely unacceptable. I agree with others that you need to lay down the law, under no uncertain terms. State the facts and allow no emotion to come through – and brook no quarter! Molly is in the wrong! Do not let her convince you otherwise.

“Hi Molly, I saw from Facebook that you were using my horse as your daughter’s lesson pony without my permission. My lease contract is very clear that no one but me or my trainer are allowed to ride Dobbin. Do not put your daughter on my horse. Thank you.”

This happened to me once with a fresh off the track TB. To his enormous credit, he did not reveal to the people who casually “borrowed” him how unbroke he was. I was livid and that was the final straw for me. If they borrow your horse, they will think nothing of borrowing your tack, your brushes, your clothes, anything else you have in that barn that is of value. They will not change and after you, they will move onto the next target.

[4Frogs_aLilypad]

This part is not your responsibility. Don’t take that on.

[demidq]

No 'hopefully" about it- "I saw photos on FB of Dobbin giving your daughter a lesson. This not acceptable- my lease contract does not allow other people to ride my horse. "
Don’t be apologetic or conciliatory. Be firm and clear!

[clanter]

would almost be worth buying this for the kid to ride

Red Orange Horse Coin Op Kiddie Ride w/ Sound. AWESOME CONDITION / WORKS GREAT....

[eventammy]

Might I add that you should save the FB photos, if you haven’t already just in case. Just to have receipts on your side.

[scislandsprite]

Yep, this! Screenshot everything. You can always delete a photo later but you can’t take a photo/screenshot of something that was deleted already.

[lenapesadie]

In addition to laying out clear boundaries, I would cease hiring Molly’s assistant to ride your horse!

[Bebe_Falcon1]

Not cool. I’d say what most other COTHers here have suggested, but I’d want answers. Lay out the facts, and ask her, why did she do it?

[ShenanAnna]

Yes; asking “why” will likely reveal many other infractions previously unknown that your trainer needs to know about. Liability, liability, liability.

[endlessclimb]

Ok, I’m going to ask the question, apologies if I missed the answer -

It is LONG past winter. Why now? Why would you not confront this immediately after it happened?

I agree that it’s unacceptable, but why did you wait so long to deal with it?

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Yeah, the big problem (besides the OG trash fire of the problem itself) is that you didn’t bring it up immediately. Sometimes if no one says anything, people who overstep boundaries take that as consent.

Do it now. “This has been bothering me since winter. Here are the photos as proof.” Start with your trainer so she has your back.

Reading over your post, it sounds like the assistant trainer may have been riding the horse and then decided to give the kid leadline lessons–without your permission–and then stupidly posted photos on FB. Be prepared for her to gaslight you that that this was just a goof after she rode the horse (as she was being paid to do). Be very firm, refer to your contract, and coolly and in no uncertain terms emphasize it’s unacceptable to do this without your permission (and also for you to effectively “pay” for a small child to thump around on your horses back as a leadline pony).

[mrs_beasley]

Screen shot everything before confrontation (which I’m sure you have already done).

As a trainer, I am horrified by this. If I was in your trainer’s shoes, I would be raising holy hell on my own, on behalf of you, my client. Molly would be out the door immediately.

I’m not sure I ascertained whether your trainer owns the facility and leases it out to Molly, or whether your trainer leases the facility and sublets to Molly. In the latter scenario, who is the barn owner and do they have any affiliation with Molly, and are they potentially giving permission for things that are not theirs to give.

The audacity of these people helping themselves to a horse on the premises that they aren’t affiliated with is alarming on so many levels.

I don’t care if it’s a 30-year-old lead line pony, if it’s not yours and you don’t have permission, you don’t get to play with it.

Does Molly carry trainers insurance? Who is this assistant and are they insured? The assistant trainer works for your trainer, or for Molly? Where did they find the bridle to put on the horse? Were they helping themselves to your bridle and tack?

Even if Molly’s assistant was riding the horse for you during quarantine, throwing a kid up there after the ride to “do leadline” is inappropriate. I have a barn full of client horses which I get paid to ride. Some of them are very quiet, however I would not throw my son up there to go for a ride, because that is inappropriate. And if I DID, I wouldn’t be dumb enough to post photos on the internet

While I would not have waited this long to bring it up, you need to do it regardless of how your trainer wants to approach it. This puts your relationship with the horse owner in jeopardy and could potentially jeopardize your lease. If it was my horse I would be worried that the barn is not professionally run and is an unsafe environment for my horse since people seem to be helping themselves.

[FjordBCRF]

Im also curious about the timing. Has it happened again since winter? Does someone at your barn own the horse you are leasing? Curious about the possibility Molly could have asked them since no one was riding at the time or something like that and you were left out of the convo? Not that it would be cool, but I could see that as a possibility.

[endlessclimb]

@modifiedequitation

This part was completley my fault. I turned a blind eye to it because A. the assistant was still riding my horse, and I didn’t want her to turn against me and have me pay her but she wouldn’t ride my horse. As well as the fact that Molly has been in the industry for many years, and I’m still learning everything. I didn’t feel like I had the power to ask her not to.

I think you’re a day late and a dollar short to confront this situation now. I’d still save the screen shots, and if it ever happens again I’d address it swiftly. Addressing it now would be coming out of left field.

[JB]

I disagree about not saying anything just because it’s been this long. Who’s to say it hasn’t happened multiple times, just without photo evidence?

@Impractical_Horsewoman

Do it now. “This has been bothering me since winter. Here are the photos as proof.” Start with your trainer so she has your back.

This is exactly what I would do. You don’t need to show the pics (unless she denies), just say you saw the pics on FB back when it happened. That photo evidence likely wasn’t the last time, even if it was the first, and even if it hasn’t happened since then it’s likely to happen again.

Just state facts, it’s not even your contract so you can avoid any feelings of guilt on that part, don’t get emotional, or pass judgement. It happened, it cannot happen again, end of discussion.

[jvanrens]

@modifiedequitation

This may be a long/complicated story, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

My barn is leased by my trainer. She rents out a block of stalls to another trainer who has about 10 boarders(number may be off, not important to the story). I’ll call this trainer Molly. Molly has a young daughter, I believe 4 or 5 maybe, who comes to the barn with Molly sometimes and loves to give the horses treats/brush them/etc.
My horse that I’m currently leasing is a total packer, teaches me everything, and is very sweet. She’s under 16 hands and a kid learned on her before I leased her.
Anyway, back in the winter, most of my trainer’s clients(including her) got COVID. She made the decision to shut her business down for two weeks to ensure everyone was safe . However, I believe Molly was still running her business/teaching lessons to some clients who weren’t exposed. Two days before our barn quarantine was up, I was browsing my barn’s facebook page, as well as Molly’s business page. However, a certain photo on Molly’s page stopped me. I zoomed in closer and I knew it was my horse. Same facial marking, same socks, etc. However, Molly’s young daughter was riding her, with one of the assistant trainer(who was being paid to ride my horse during quarantine)'s for Molly’s barn leading her. I was a bit taken back by the photo and kept scrolling on. There were more photos of Molly’s daughter on my horse, being lead by the assistant trainer. I knew they weren’t from the same day, though, because Molly’s daughter was wearing different clothing, different lead rope, different saddlepad, etc. Now, I understand that Molly’s daughter didn’t have a pony/horse to learn on, and she really wants to learn, but to me, that’s no excuse. I am not a charity and I pay for the horse. It’s out of my pocket, not Molly’s. If something were to happen(I know it was only a leadline lesson, but my horse spooks a lot, and a 4-year-old would not be able to stay on if she got scared of something), but if an accident happened or my horse were hurt, the question would arise, “Why was she on the horse?”. In my lease contract, it specifically says that only me, family members, and trainers are allowed to ride the horse. The lessors could possibly take her away from me, or if she got hurt, I would have to pay for vet bills. Molly never asked me, I found out from the photos. They have never told me to this day, I doubt that they know that I know. I know that nothing happened, but if it happens again, what should i do??

Quoted just so people don’t get confused if the original post disappears.

[luvmyhackney]

Even if time had passed I would still tell your trainer and Molly plus her assistant that it should/will not happen in the future.

You don’t have to give reasons or anything.

Hi X, I know you have used horsey prior for leadline lessons, but going forward that is not going to be allowed. I don’t want anyone but myself and who ever I pay to ride my horsey.

If there is any confusion as to has permission about riding horsey please text or call me.

Thanks!