I bought a filly about three months ago, she was underweight and unhealthy. I spent about a month and a half fattening her up, had her teeth done wormed…
We slowly started on ground manners, longlineing,longing and eventually backing and riding. Everthing was going great until about a month ago when she appeared to be a bit off.
Fast forward to today, I had the vet out, and the vet suspects OCD and suggested getting xrays.
I plan on getting the xrays, but then what? I’ve become attached to the filly, but she was a 1,500. horse! She’s cute but she’ll never be a 20k horse. OCD surgery if it’s in both hocks is what 8-9k.
I’m just not sure what the best thing to do here is… Any suggestions?
First of all, do not panic. How old is the filly? Sometimes OCDs resolve themselves. Also, sometimes even ones that do not resolve themselves do not need surgery because they are in a location that is not going to adversely impact a joint. If in fact the filly turns out to have an OCD, I would want to make sure that her lameness is caused by that and not something else. Based on your description, in 3 months she has gone from unhealthy and unfit to being a greenie started under saddle. Perhaps she simply strained something and a little rest will help?
OCD is not always bad. My gelding had OCD in both hocks when I bought him at 5. He has never taken a bad step because of it.
Wait for your diagnosis.
If it is OCD discuss with vet the treatment, cost, prognosis.
Depends on the case but hocks tend to have a better prognosis with surgery than some other things (stifles).
Put a list of questions together that you want to ask your vet.
Yes, no need to panic yet!
OCD is not the end of the world. It may resolve with conservative treatment. If you do have surgery, the pricing in CA is usually $2400-2600 for bilat a-scope (if both sides are affected).
First step is xrays. How old is she?
My colt had OCD and I opted to have laparoscopic surgery on both hocks when he was 2 just to be on the safe side. There were only two little lesions on both sides, but I didn’t want to take any chances. I had it done in 2002 at Equine Services in Simpsonville, KY and it only cost $1500 plus $300 for an entire workup of xrays and other pre/post op incidentals.
I know some people say OCD can be ignored and I know several adult horses who have it, but it is a ticking time bomb IMO. I would think any horse with OCD is more likely to develop DJD later on and will need constant surveillance (x-rays) and joint supplements to maintain the integrity of those joints. You also don’t know if the OCD is isolated in just the hocks (best scenario) or if she has OCD in other joints too (worse scenario) without a complete set of x-rays. I knew a horse that had OCD for years and was a really good jumper and then he just started to get sore and off behind - the lesions were causing inflammation in the joint - and surgery was necessary. It is a lot harder for a 9 or 10 year old to have to go through hock surgery with a good prognosis than a younger horse.
It shouldn’t matter how much you paid for the horse - you can either afford to take care of her (and treat all of her problems throughout the years) or not. Either do what needs to be done or sell her to someone who knows what’s going on and is willing to pay for the surgery.
The filly is three. I know that OCD doesn’t always result in lameness, but my filly is lame. She isn’t three legged lame but definitely off. She has had about a month and a half off we had only ridden her about five times before the lameness showed up.
The vet was out yesterday, flexed her looked at her, and found a tiny bit of fluid on her left hock. She was about the same on both legs after flexing.
Vet said that because of her age OCD is in her top three of suspected diagnoses, although she couldn’t really tell me what the other two were other than maybe she’s had some trama…
One of my closest horsey friends, (I grew up riding with her) told me that I should probably put her down as she will never be worth the money it takes to do the surgery. She had her gelding done two years ago and it was 8,500.00.
After I get the xrays done and the OCD is confirmed I will need to decide what is best for me and the filly. I feel responsible for her, giving her away doesn’t put me at ease. When she came to me she was in pretty bad shape, and I would never want her to go back to that kind of care. She is a sweet girl, cute mover and very trainable. If I give her to someone as a pasture ornament or pleasure horse I have no control as to what happens to her…
She is well bred on her Hanoverian side ( hohenstien/weltmeyer) and she is four generations of Appaloosa on her dam (I don’t really know app bloodines). So I guess she would be eligible for a broodmare but OCD can be genetic so breeding her wouldn’t be a good idea.
I will probably get the surgery, but I think up here it’s alot more than 3-4k.
I don’t know where you are located, but 3-4k for laparoscopic surgery seems a lot! That’s how much colic surgery costs in my parts. Maybe you should shop around and look for some vet clinics near a racetrack or heavy breeding areas. I know the vets in KY were priced very competitively because of competition from other vets and they did these surgeries daily. I also happened to live only 3 hours away at the time so it was easy to haul my colt in. I was told by the vet who did the surgery that several TB babies destined for the track have OCD and it has almost become routine for them to do hock surgery on them as yearlings. Simpsonville is outside of Louisville, KY (where Churchill Downs is located) in Saddlebred horse country. Maybe you could haul your filly to a clinic like this and save some $$$?
Good luck with your filly!
I have been through OCD surgery with three horses now. Each surgery was under $2000. One of the horses was a rescue and I still paid for it, in order for her to have a useful life.
Two surgeries were for a hock OCD and one was for a stifle. All three horses recovered completely. One is now three and I had her surgery done at seven months (she was not lame but I discovered the effusion). After the surgery the vet said it was the second worst hock OCD he had ever seen. Now - 3 years later - her radiographs are, in the vet’s words, perfect! And she is completely sound, including after flexions.
OCDs are often not discovered until the horse goes to work, so the timing of your filly’s soundness issues combined with the effusion of the joint are strong indicators for OCD. According to what I learned in my research, OCDs usually form during the last three months of gestation and the first three months of foalhood. OCDs do not typically form in a horse older than a year old.
I agree with the poster who said its best to get them out. Even if the OCD is quiet, you never know when it is going to break loose and put particles in your joint. Also I think the risks of anesthesia are less with a younger smaller horse. I think I recall that fetlock OCDs are the most likely to resolve on their own.
From my reading, OCDs can be the result of genetics, lack of turnout, and under or over-feeding. None of my horses were in my care when they developed their OCDs, but I am still extra careful about their nutrtion. Its especially important to get the right balance of minerals. Also I used to think it was excessive to radiograph an unstarted horse as part of a prepurchase, but now I think its prudent!
[QUOTE=expression;4204951]
The filly is three. I know that OCD doesn’t always result in lameness, but my filly is lame. She isn’t three legged lame but definitely off. She has had about a month and a half off we had only ridden her about five times before the lameness showed up.
The vet was out yesterday, flexed her looked at her, and found a tiny bit of fluid on her left hock. She was about the same on both legs after flexing.
Vet said that because of her age OCD is in her top three of suspected diagnoses, although she couldn’t really tell me what the other two were other than maybe she’s had some trama…
One of my closest horsey friends, (I grew up riding with her) told me that I should probably put her down as she will never be worth the money it takes to do the surgery. She had her gelding done two years ago and it was 8,500.00.
After I get the xrays done and the OCD is confirmed I will need to decide what is best for me and the filly. I feel responsible for her, giving her away doesn’t put me at ease. When she came to me she was in pretty bad shape, and I would never want her to go back to that kind of care. She is a sweet girl, cute mover and very trainable. If I give her to someone as a pasture ornament or pleasure horse I have no control as to what happens to her…
She is well bred on her Hanoverian side ( hohenstien/weltmeyer) and she is four generations of Appaloosa on her dam (I don’t really know app bloodines). So I guess she would be eligible for a broodmare but OCD can be genetic so breeding her wouldn’t be a good idea.
I will probably get the surgery, but I think up here it’s alot more than 3-4k.[/QUOTE]
Do you have her scheduled for xrays yet? I know it’s hard to not think about it, but no need to speculate until you have the digitals done. What is referred to as “OCD” includes many “types”. You can have chips/joint mice, subchondral cyst - where the lesion is in the bone, or flaps or uneveness in the cartilage.
We’ll cross our fingers for you 
and post what the x-ray results are.
I just talked the vet most people use for OCD surgery up here. It’s about 2500. Which is much cheaper than I anticipated:) Because she isn’t diagnosed I am going to try to insure her. I am faxing the paper work to the insurance agency today and hopefully they will insure her for major med and mortality. I have xrays scheduled for the Friday after next. I’ll post results.
One of my closest horsey friends, (I grew up riding with her) told me that I should probably put her down as she will never be worth the money it takes to do the surgery
Are you sure this is a friend. You don’t even have a diagnosis yet. Is this friend an expert on post surgical prognosis for oCD surgery?
The horse is worth what she is worth to YOU. not what you might sell her for .
Listen to your vet and not your “friends”.
I don’t think you can get the horse insured in order to get surgery covered on a pre-existing condition the way you’re talking about trying to do.
The insurance companies want xrays before they cover a horse, and if they see the pre existing condition, whatever it is, they won’t insure that leg or cover insurance on it. They are very likely to notice it if your horse is lame. Insurance companies don’t write policies on legs with existing lameness. The policy is only to cover something that happens afterwards, and they won’t issue a policy that covers that leg unless it looks clean in a vet eval.
And if you try to get insurance to pay for surgery on a pre existing condtion that you know about, and get found out, you’re up for fraud.
Insurance companies don’t write policies in order to enable people to do free surgery on horses that they purchase lame. I’m sorry but you are very unlikely to get away with it.
A 3 year old that is lame now belongs to you, and it’s up to you to take care of the animal. Surgery isn’t necessarily the best option; you need to get a diagnosis first. Euthenasia isn’t necessarily the most ethical option either.
All OCD’s don’t need surgery, all OCD’s don’t benefit from surgery, all 3 year olds that are limping don’t have OCD, all fluid on hocks isn’t due to OCD(bog spavin, an infection, a bug bite, a hematoma come to mind)…best to find out what is wrong with the horse, and decide with the vet what to do next…and to not expect an insurance company to cover a pre existing condition.
I’ve got to agree with slc2, please don’t try to get insurance for this problem right now. A vet has already looked at the horse because she is lame and in the vet’s opinion it might be OCD. To try to fax the papers into the insurance quickly as if she has no problems and then have them pay for the surgery, well that is probably bordering on insurance fraud. I’m sure that is not what you are trying to do, but according to the law it could be termed fraud. Just wait for the diagnosis and listen to your vet’s advice. And I also feel compelled to give my unasked for opinion: euthanizing a very young horse who has a problem with a great prognosis with proper treatment to me is just not right. Sorry.
Since the mare is already lame, probably the insurance company will refuse to cover whatever is causing that lameness whether it is diagnosed or not.
If you like the filly, get the xrays and go from there. If she has an OCD and is lame from it, it isn’t something you can ignore. At 3 it isn’t likely to go away. OCDS are very common, something like 30% of all warmbloods have them. The surgery is often very successful, especially for hock OCDs.
In this market doing nothing and keeping the mare as a broodmare prospect is probably not a good idea economically. Probably cheaper to keep her as a pasture pet. Also, even though OCDs are common and can have many causes and may in some cases not be genetic I also still hate the idea of breeding a lame horse that has never been sound enough to do anything. That’s just my personal opinion.
One other thing…if she has a hock OCD and you are going to go ahead with the hock surgery I would do screening xrays of all of her other joints (esp. other hock & stifles). A horse that has one OCD is more likely to have another, and if she is being anesthetized for surgery you might as well make sure she doesn’t have any other OCDs that need to be operated on.
Re: euthanasia… I think it would be very hasty to take that course at this point, you’ve already invested a bit in this filly. Get a diagnosis, see what the options are.
[QUOTE=GreekDressageQueen;4204579]
My colt had OCD and I opted to have laparoscopic surgery on both hocks when he was 2 just to be on the safe side. There were only two little lesions on both sides, but I didn’t want to take any chances. I had it done in 2002 at Equine Services in Simpsonville, KY and it only cost $1500 plus $300 for an entire workup of xrays and other pre/post op incidentals.
I know some people say OCD can be ignored and I know several adult horses who have it, but it is a ticking time bomb IMO. I would think any horse with OCD is more likely to develop DJD later on and will need constant surveillance (x-rays) and joint supplements to maintain the integrity of those joints. You also don’t know if the OCD is isolated in just the hocks (best scenario) or if she has OCD in other joints too (worse scenario) without a complete set of x-rays. I knew a horse that had OCD for years and was a really good jumper and then he just started to get sore and off behind - the lesions were causing inflammation in the joint - and surgery was necessary. It is a lot harder for a 9 or 10 year old to have to go through hock surgery with a good prognosis than a younger horse.
It shouldn’t matter how much you paid for the horse - you can either afford to take care of her (and treat all of her problems throughout the years) or not. Either do what needs to be done or sell her to someone who knows what’s going on and is willing to pay for the surgery.[/QUOTE]
I have a different take on this - I would not do surgery on a horse that does not need it, and there are some cases of OCD that absolutely do not need it. I have a good friend who discovered, shortly after paying 95K for her 4 year old hunter, that he had a small OCD in one hock that was not affecting the joint and the horse showed no signs of lameness or discomfort. She opted to do surgery “to be on the safe side” by one of the leading leg surgeons in the country. The joint went septic post-surgery and after numerous debridements and a couple of additional surgeries, the wound absolutely would not heal and the horse had to be put down. Obviously, there are many cases where this type of surgery is wholly successful without any complications, but the point is that there is always some risk with surgery that things will go horribly wrong, so that risk needs to be weighed against whatever benefits the surgery would offer. That said, I would do the surgery if an OCD posed an issue for the horse or looked like it likely would be an issue in the future.
That said, for sale horses, frequently one would have to do the surgery even for a small OCD before selling because people freak out when they hear OCD (obviously the horse’s medical condition and any surgery should be disclosed to the buyer).
[QUOTE=expression;4204951]
The filly is three. I know that OCD doesn’t always result in lameness, but my filly is lame. She isn’t three legged lame but definitely off. She has had about a month and a half off we had only ridden her about five times before the lameness showed up.
The vet was out yesterday, flexed her looked at her, and found a tiny bit of fluid on her left hock. She was about the same on both legs after flexing.
Vet said that because of her age OCD is in her top three of suspected diagnoses, although she couldn’t really tell me what the other two were other than maybe she’s had some trama…
One of my closest horsey friends, (I grew up riding with her) told me that I should probably put her down as she will never be worth the money it takes to do the surgery. She had her gelding done two years ago and it was 8,500.00.
After I get the xrays done and the OCD is confirmed I will need to decide what is best for me and the filly. I feel responsible for her, giving her away doesn’t put me at ease. When she came to me she was in pretty bad shape, and I would never want her to go back to that kind of care. She is a sweet girl, cute mover and very trainable. If I give her to someone as a pasture ornament or pleasure horse I have no control as to what happens to her…
She is well bred on her Hanoverian side ( hohenstien/weltmeyer) and she is four generations of Appaloosa on her dam (I don’t really know app bloodines). So I guess she would be eligible for a broodmare but OCD can be genetic so breeding her wouldn’t be a good idea.
I will probably get the surgery, but I think up here it’s alot more than 3-4k.[/QUOTE]
OCD can have a genetic component but very frequently it is caused by poor nutrition and improper turnout programs (i.e., not enough turnout). Given your filly’s history, it would not be surprising if genetics did not play a role.
Insurance- bad idea.
Insurance companies will not cover an issue from the date that medical attention is sought for that condition. The day you walk into a clinic, or have the vet out, is considered the date of “onset”. Not date of diagnosis. This is a common fallacy and is true in both human and animal insurance.
To get the insurance your vet would be required to fill out a health certificate and would have to disclose the fact that he has been sought for a professional opinion for a lameness. Even if you get around this part - and you get insurance - you still be highly likely to not get coverage. For once you have the insurance and start to claim for an injury or illness they again send a vet certificate that he has to fill out and it specifically asks when the horse was presented with symptoms - not the date of diagnosis.
This is true in people as well.I have had cancer patients without insurance come to our office and say “doc I have a lump in my breast”. Doc says - yes - you need a mammogram and biopsy. Patient waits several weeks, goes out and gets new insurance, doesn’t mention this to the insurance. THEN they go get mammogram and biopsy and get “diagnosed” with cancer. Claims start going to insurance. Insurance immediately sends a medical records request to the md office since their radar goes off every time a person goes out and buys insurance and then almost immediately gets diagnosed with a serious disease. Of course we have to disclose that the patient presented with “signs and symptoms for which they sought medical treatment” BEFORE buying the insurance. No insurance coverage and sometimes the patient gets prosecuted for insurance fraud.
[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;4206278]
I have a different take on this - I would not do surgery on a horse that does not need it, and there are some cases of OCD that absolutely do not need it. I have a good friend who discovered, shortly after paying 95K for her 4 year old hunter, that he had a small OCD in one hock that was not affecting the joint and the horse showed no signs of lameness or discomfort. She opted to do surgery “to be on the safe side” by one of the leading leg surgeons in the country. The joint went septic post-surgery and after numerous debridements and a couple of additional surgeries, the wound absolutely would not heal and the horse had to be put down. Obviously, there are many cases where this type of surgery is wholly successful without any complications, but the point is that there is always some risk with surgery that things will go horribly wrong, so that risk needs to be weighed against whatever benefits the surgery would offer. That said, I would do the surgery if an OCD posed an issue for the horse or looked like it likely would be an issue in the future.
That said, for sale horses, frequently one would have to do the surgery even for a small OCD before selling because people freak out when they hear OCD (obviously the horse’s medical condition and any surgery should be disclosed to the buyer).[/QUOTE]
How sad for your friend! I agree with you completely that a small OCD in an adult horse that is not showing any symptoms should probably be left alone. I’d probably want a vet’s opinion because possibly the location could be a deciding factor. Also, OCD surgery is best performed early, when the bones are still growing because the area will heal better. I’d be a lot more leery to do OCD surgery on an adult horse.
Anyway, the horse in question in this thread is lame, so if an OCD is the culprit it would need to be treated.
Take A Deep Breath Count To Ten
How much have you researched OCD, I would have her on O.C.D. pellets immediately and take a hard look @ my feed program to bring her in line and not overly enriched right now.
Also Hyperbaric chamber has proved extrememly useful in helping to reslove these types of lesions. This site below is super useful. My one mare had OCD in her stilfes, she not only raced well but had a stellar H/J career and it was only @ a pre-purchase they were found on baseline x-rays not because of unsoundness. So take a deep breath stop soliciting uneducated help and do your own research. Make a few phone calls, see if she qualifies for a research program some where before pulling the plug on her life.
