I wouldn’t trade it for something I couldn’t fix. Things like fence testing/jumping, cribbing, weaving, downright meanness/aggression. Something like bad ground manners, a bad loader, bad at feed time, I feel like I could work on so that wouldn’t dissuade me much. I’m very confident on the ground, provided the horse isn’t actually out to kill me. I’m a big old weenie when it comes to riding, so if it was perfectly safe and sound under saddle, that would be something I’d value over something I could potentially retrain elsewhere.
Mr. PoPo’s horse had crooked legs, bad feet, an old hock injury, roared, and was a cribber. He was the best horse in the whole world and it is unlikely that we’ll ever find a horse with as much heart and love of jumping and try and trustworthiness that that horse had. I “put up” with a lot to have a horse that I felt was a safe mount for Mr. PoPo.
I did put down an aggressive horse once. He had other issues so there’s no way I’d try to sell him on, and after biting two people and threatening me and Mr. PoPo on a daily basis (and after doing various diagnostic work, training, and everything you could think of), I had him put down.
We did lease a horse for Mr. PoPo once that wouldn’t tie and that was just too much. He’d be fine for a bit and then he’d freak out and pull back and break something and then go running off. It wasn’t disclosed to us and it was a major safety issue as far as I was concerned. He wasn’t entirely sound, either, so we sent him back.
My current pony is a rock solid citizen under saddle (he never acts out or gets fresh or spooks,and he tries his heart out if you ask him to do something).
But he’s got a Napoleon complex. He’s the boss in his field of geldings (despite being the smallest and one of the youngest ), so I have to be aware of not letting him get away with anything. He’s also opinionated and hates being brushed.
But the ride is worth it, so I put up with those quirks. Others hate dealing with his personality.
I’ll put up with a lot of weirdness, so long as its not a major safety issue. For example, biting with full force vs a mouthy horse, I’ll do mouthy, but not a nasty biter with no qualms about hurting you. A horse that will kick, but with plenty of warning and clear triggers? That’s pretty manageable in the right setting. Same with food aggression. You can get around a horse that doesn’t hard tie, that’s pretty easy to me.
I will not do hideously bad loaders. You can take a few minutes to think about it, but you may not rear and run backwards and let your brain fall out of your head. I also don’t do hard to catch horses, because winter here is too cold and snowy to walk them down!
A friend has a total packer gaited trail horse- been there, done that all over the country. He is a total jackass about being tacked up (yes, he’s has xrays, ultrasounds, body scans, chiro, massage, you name it and he’s fine physically). He must be held by a second person or cross tied to tack up. Now if you’re out on the trail and stop for lunch and untack- he’s perfectly fine for you to put it back on. He is worth his weight in gold as a riding horse, so yeah, we put up with it.
[QUOTE=Abbie.S;8013423]
I’m curious, as the topic came up in the barn this afternoon and I was somewhat surprised at a few of the answers.
Say you have a horse who goes very, very well under saddle. Maybe you even use the word “phenomenal”, “gifted”, etc. What kinds of things would you be willing to put up (think, in trade) with if this were the case?
For me personally, I absolutely do not tolerate poor ground manners, but I’m also of the belief that good ground manners lead to better riding horses. So I wouldn’t put up with, say, a horse who didn’t lead well, a horse that wouldn’t tie/pulled back when tied, or a horse that was obnoxiously mouthy, even if that horse was to die for under saddle. But that’s just me.
What would you consider a reasonable trade-off?[/QUOTE]
Since I don’t compete, going very well under saddle means safe and willing. For that I’ll put up with lots of other stuff. 
Currently, I’m getting a fills-in-for-me confidence-giver in trade for wobbly hocks (which I’m addressing with the vet) and walks (slowly) off before my other foot is in the stirrup. Given his age I doubt I’ll change either of the things I’m not so crazy about, but it’s OK because he and I just really enjoy each other. He’s the even-when-I-can-no-longer-ride-him, I’ll-keep-him type.
With my other horse, so far he’s not going so well under saddle. :no: My-grandma-what-a-big-spook-you-have. But he’s sound (knocks wood) and was going really well before being out of work for a year, which was my fault not his. So I’m putting up with that in trade for the probability that between my trainer and me we can fix that.
Okay so now that you mention it, I did have an ex-starved TB that was food aggressive towards other horses and I worked around it. But I did send back one potential adoptee that was trying to aim her back hoof at us.
I own a horse (retired now) who would fox hunt, event, hack out alone or with company, and show jump. Big fences and rated shows.
No spook and no stop. EVER.
Tarp on top of a newly built house at high winds didn’t even deserve a second look from 10ft away. Open gate next to a 3ft 6in coop he wouldn’t even consider not jumping the fence. Really you didn’t even need to steer and you certainly did not need to collect as he had an “auto-collect feature”.
Bonus was that he was sound, sound, sound and I never had a day with him where he was lame. He will probably live forever in retirement.
However his list of vices was long:
he cribbed
he was stall protective with a “caution” sign on the door
he would chase you out of the pasture with teeth bared (if he didn’t know you)
he would bite
Once he knew you he was pretty well behaved but to strangers he was a problem.
I bought him knowing all of his vices and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
I’ve sat on some pretty reliable and nice horses before and since but I have never ever felt as 100% safe and taken care of as I did on him.
Nothing that is violent or dangerous.
My gelding is a great trail horse. Surefooted, beautiful feet, can go for miles. He HATES being in the lead. I hate riding alone. So in the end it works out. We ride with people who like being ahead of us. Win win.
Every horse has a “quirk” just like every rider.
But behaviors like training? Nope nope. It doesn’t matter if they can jump 7’ from a stand still, they should still be safe with manners.
[QUOTE=tabula rashah;8014311]
A friend has a total packer gaited trail horse- been there, done that all over the country. He is a total jackass about being tacked up (yes, he’s has xrays, ultrasounds, body scans, chiro, massage, you name it and he’s fine physically). He must be held by a second person or cross tied to tack up. Now if you’re out on the trail and stop for lunch and untack- he’s perfectly fine for you to put it back on. He is worth his weight in gold as a riding horse, so yeah, we put up with it.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, would that be Gem’s brother by chance? I can’t remember his name…
SLY!! Right?
I won’t put up with anything aggressive towards people. My daughter’s first horse (who was my horse before, long story but there was more than casual attachment to her) went to a new home when she double barreled towards my head while tied and being groomed. No tolerance whatsoever.
[QUOTE=adelmo95;8014243]
As a teen I put up with a horse who would both try to bite and cow kick you when saddling her because it meant the opportunity to ride an ex open horse. She could also be a bronk undersaddle if anyone ran up to close behind her but she was fun to jump!!! Now that I am older I don’t know if I would be brave enough to ride her, but at the time I thought she was great.[/QUOTE]
You can’t get to be old and wise if you were never young and crazy!
I’m beginning to think I put up with quite a lot and that my horse is lucky that I will never sell him…
My next horse will:
Straight tie
Take a bath
Self Load
Ride in the trailer quietly and not like an angry elephant
And keep his nose off me. Off. No more horse lip prints.
And not try to kill every horse that won’t kowtow to his every whim
Well, seeing as my last mare was a dream with ground manners but an absolute betoch to ride and not an amature ride at all…my tune has changed a bit. My current dude is a dream under saddle, an ammie dream come true…some of his ground manners though leave a lot to be desired!
He is THAT horse…everything goes into his mouth, he’s an ass in the washrack and while he’s good to lead, groom and stands well for the farrier and vet he gets pushy fast! You have to always be alert and ready to get after him and not let him into your space “over and over - my space your space” - it just doesn’t sink in and stay sunk in!
But, I keep plugging away trying to get the manners to stay sunk in because he’s an ammie dream to ride…puts up with anything and I mean anything!
I’ve got one who’s awesome to ride and mount and just incredible under saddle. His leading and tying manners are fine, but he’s into everything and a total pest. He can’t go out with other horses (unless I get an alpha mare) as he’s a bully. He’s food possessive and has tried that with me. He can be a pig in the paddock even to people, but as soon as he’s haltered it’s like he then switches over to recognizing/respecting people as people (vs treating them like other horses in the field). He’s great about tying and all that but a pig about getting hosed. On the other hand, he loads like a boss.
He’s youngish (7), and didn’t have great boundaries established young. He’s super smart but I’m learning his quirks and ego are partly what makes him so bold under saddle. Trade offs 
[QUOTE=kasjordan;8014906]
Hmmm, would that be Gem’s brother by chance? I can’t remember his name…
SLY!! Right?[/QUOTE]
Yep- that’s him. LOL
some horses aren’t “fixable”. We have a phenomenal hunter at our barn, hard to beat at shows, worth a fortune. If he were human, he would be diagnosed Autistic. He was severely abused and was rescued, but unfortunately, things were ingrained that couldn’t be worked out. Fortunately he was untrained when he was rescued, so it was mostly ground things he objected to.
He is violently afraid of hoses and water. He will try to maim you if you don’t sedate him for clipping and you have to move him out of the stall to clean it as he’s afraid of the forks and shovels (will try to kill you if you’re holding one). You can guess the items used to abuse him…
But, it’s not his fault these things happened to him. He had no control over his early years and what was done to him, so you learn to work with him because that’s what he deserves. No one is going to be able to “train” these responses out of him. Over the last few years he has become a lot more docile and is perfect at shows to work with (still have to clean stall minus him). He is just the perfect hunter and has such a great attitude under saddle and LOVES his job. He gives so much when being ridden that you bend your rules and what you tolerate because he has done that for you-it could NOT have been easy for him to accept a human training him after what he had endured.
That said, I’m not sure I would be able to tolerate what she does for this horse. He frankly scares the bejesus out of me daily. That she can GET into the saddle and ride him, makes me respect her. Sometimes getting him out of the stall takes more time than riding.
So, I guess I don’t have the personality that can tolerate these types of behaviours just to have a great show horse. I can UNDERSTAND why he does these things, and have gotten after people who try to make him conform, but I sure don’t want to be the one to have to DEAL with his issues.
