What would you put up with in the otherwise perfect horse under saddle?

[Abbie.S]

I’m curious, as the topic came up in the barn this afternoon and I was somewhat surprised at a few of the answers.

Say you have a horse who goes very, very well under saddle. Maybe you even use the word “phenomenal”, “gifted”, etc. What kinds of things would you be willing to put up (think, in trade) with if this were the case?

For me personally, I absolutely do not tolerate poor ground manners, but I’m also of the belief that good ground manners lead to better riding horses. So I wouldn’t put up with, say, a horse who didn’t lead well, a horse that wouldn’t tie/pulled back when tied, or a horse that was obnoxiously mouthy, even if that horse was to die for under saddle. But that’s just me.

What would you consider a reasonable trade-off?

[HPFarmette]

I don’t really have an answer for this. I know that very advanced horses may have some quirks that their (very advanced) riders learn to work around. But my needs are simple, so I don’t put up with anything. I see ground manners and non-mouthiness as basic to safety, and I MUST have safety. Not to say that I don’t understand and tolerate my off-the-track standardbred’s personality, she is skeptical and “not cuddly”, I have to go more slowly with her than with my other horses. I don’t see it as a trade off.

[GoForAGallop]

Nothing makes me want to kill a horse and fry them up on the BBQ (and I’m a life-long vegetarian :lol:) than a consistent bad loader. It is seriously the worst. You gather crowds, you’re late for things, it adds completely unnecessary stress not only at shows, but if there is ever an emergency. Whether that’s a vet emergency, and you’re fighting while trying to get a severely injured/colicking/etc horse on the trailer, or it’s a natural disaster and you have literally 10 minutes to get everything packed and on the trailer or the horse is being left behind.

It’s a fixable issue, sure, but as with most bad habits, it always tends to rear it’s ugly head at the worst times.

I think fence testers/destroyers are enraging, and dangerous if they are regularly getting out and you don’t have perimeter fencing.

Ground manners are USUALLY fixable. Tying is not a big deal to me because I do most stuff in the stall, although it is annoying at shows when you have to find someone to hold horse while you pee.

Horses who cannot go out with anyone, ever, are annoying, but that’s probably fine if the horse truly is fantastic under saddle.

[charismaryllis]

A horse that will not stand at the mounting block. :mad: Since i’m usually around kids when i’m chasing a horse around and around the block, i have to limit my four letter words to “alpo!” and “iams!” The witchy mare was walking away a few weeks ago and i lost it and screamed at her and wailed on her neck with my bare hand (which hurt me 'way more than it hurt her) but by god, she stood still. Doesn’t matter how nice the horse is under saddle if you can’t get on.

…which i now realize was not the original question. will have to think about this…

[Countrywood]

I guess I am weird because I put up with a lot of stuff! I’ve seen some fantastic horses under saddle that were nasty on the ground, and horses with lovely ground manners who were stubborn or uncooperative under saddle, or at best mediocre.

Personally, I would not feel safe with a horse that was a kicker or a confirmed bolter. Though I think ground manners are teachable, I will put up with quirks in a horse, in exchange they put up with mine.

[shayaalliard]

I put up with more than most would. My mare is stunningly blindingly food aggressive. She will bite you. She will kick you. Both gates to her fields have whips leaning against them, which she respects. No one enters her stall with her but me. They feed her over the wall without issue. We live around it. I’ve been able to improve her manners in other areas pretty well, but her starvation before I got her seems to have permanently affected how she thinks about food.

[ReSomething]

I’ve had a wonderful puppy dog of a horse that loaded fine, was great for the farrier and the vet and was terrible under saddle, to the point where I started making excuses not to ride.

I think that HPF has it, when you have professional grooms handling the horse for you then the bad manners on the ground sort of fade into the background. If I don’t have to care about catching the horse because my groom had to get out there an hour in advance and lasso the stinker, well then, where is the problem.

For groomless me though, I sort of can’t overlook any manners that might affect my safety. Some vet and farrier issues, like needing to be sedated, OK, so we recognize that and make sure to have the animal sedated for everyone’s benefit. Refusing to be caught or to be loaded, um, those could be life or death for the animal if a wildfire is bearing down on us so I’ve got to choose BBQ’d horsey and do it fast and if I don’t I’m dead too.

How about cribbing? Drives people nuts but isn’t life threatening.

[Highflyer]

I like to compete and am on a strict budget, so I know going in that perfect is not necessarily realistic. That said I have to be able to load/ haul/ handle horse by myself, so there are limits. My old guy didn’t tie to the trailer at competitions but did have the scope to jump around at Prelim, so that ended up being worth it for me. But if I hadn’t been able to leave him in the trailer by himself and if he hadn’t stood still to tack up, I couldn’t have done it.

My big dealbreakers:

–woodchewing
–not standing in the trailer
–aggression toward people
–severe herbound-ness
–general brain shutoff meltdowns

I’ve never known one that didn’t learn to be caught or load (even if it took some careful management or a feed bucket). I’m sure they’re out there, and those things would definitely be dealbreakers but I would think they would be for almost anyone. I hate cribbing/ pawing/ weaving, but in an awesome enough horse I could live with them.

[Emilia]

I am more oriented the other way round.

I would trade a talent for a kind heart.

I am willing to adjust a lot as a rider and handler for a kind hearted horse. I switched disciplines, style of riding, or ways of handling to accommodate the interest and abilities of the horse.

It is such an uplifting experience and privilege to be in a presence of any creature that is “good to the core.”

I have met quite a few equestrians, who tolerated mean and dangerous behavior, because of the great athleticism of the horse.

Then, if a horse got injured or did not go as far as his talent should have taken him (since his personality ultimately got in the way or so), they would have a very hard time unloading the animal, for there were not many takers for a phenomenally gifted… jerk.

[Training_Cupid]

I had my previous horse for 18 years and I considered her my perfect horse, but she didn’t like to lunge so I didn’t make her (she would turn in to me and refuse to move. Sometimes she would even turn away from me, with the lunge line behind her haunches so I would walk around to try to unwind it and she kept turning so basically I was lunging around her!) I thought she is so great about everything else I’ll let her have this.

My current horse is a bit green and we’re working on a few things but I don’t think he really has aything I have to “put up with.”

I would really have to like a horse to put up with a cribber.

[shiloh]

I’m with you, Emilia. I’ll take kind and willing over talent any day. Kind and willing can learn to be talented. Kind and willing wants to please YOU and an A-H doesn’t. Beauty and talent can only last so long.

At one of my barns I was riding my beloved Shiloh around the property and stopped to chat briefly with the BM. Out of nowhere she says,“Your horse is so boring. I would hate a boring horse.” This from a woman who horse routinely dumped her, stomped on her and once threw her into a fence where she impaled her leg on the metal t-post. I smiled at her and said “Boring horses go everywhere and boring horses do everything,” and rode away. WORD!!!

[lesson_junkie]

For the right one, there are a few things I am willing to accommodate. I don’t have to have a perfectly pulled mane. If Mr. Right has to fidget in the cross ties, I can deal, same for one that hates clippers. I can tolerate one that walks off from the mounting block before I’m fully seated. It’s not convenient, but I will find a way to live with one that won’t tie, if all else is wonderful.

Non-negotiable: they must stand for the vet, and farrier, and load without question. No biting or kicking allowed, either. They have to cross water and put up with dogs, too.

[TBHunterPrincess]

I bought a severe cribber (with proper management now rarely cribs), who will not tolerate having his mane pulled. Nothing short of general anesthesia would make it possible to pull his mane properly. However, he self loads/unloads like a dream, is not herd bound, can be turned out alone or in a group, and has a super work ethic. He may not be the right horse for someone else, but I wouldn’t trade him for anything. I’m not perfect, so I don’t expect him to be either.

[Buddy0227]

Won’t own a cribber.

[Flash44]

Wow, very surprised at the number of people who put up with bad manners on the ground. I don’t put up with bad manners on the ground, I fix them.

The only behavior issue I’ve not been able to fix and am willing to put up with is a horse that won’t tie up (pulls back). An ugly color or ugly head is OK with me, and I’m OK with special shoes if it’s what the horse needs.

[RedHorses]

EPSM, COPD, and Cushing’s all in the same horse.

[FineAlready]

I will put up with considerable quirkiness on the ground and under saddle for a horse that I really like to ride. But I’m also a TB person. Quirkiness kind of comes with the territory, especially in the really nice ones.

[LSMarnell]

I owned a horse who wouldn’t tie for 14 years…he cost me so much money over the years trying to get him to “learn to tie” and kept getting hurt. I finally gave up. He would cross tie fine but we didn’t straight tie. That one is reasonable to me.

I could never own a cribber. Even if he was amazing in every other way. Same with a fence destroyer. It was -11 degrees here yesterday. If I had to be responsible for fixing fence due to a fence destroyer in that weather, I would get rid of them pronto!

[adelmo95]

As a teen I put up with a horse who would both try to bite and cow kick you when saddling her because it meant the opportunity to ride an ex open horse. She could also be a bronk undersaddle if anyone ran up to close behind her but she was fun to jump!!! Now that I am older I don’t know if I would be brave enough to ride her, but at the time I thought she was great.

[cripplecreekfrm]

I have always said that I would not deal with a horse that I worried about a non horsey person that might show up and go in the field to “pet the Horsies” Until my last aquiree all my horses were puppy dogs on the ground, even my mare that I truly love but wouldn’t let my worst enemy ride her. This includes one stallion that a child can not only handle on the ground but can also ride, though I don’t let many rider him.

Two years ago I aquired a guy that was a complete A**HOLE on the ground. He wasn’t mean but he had been allowed to bully his previous owner, which is probably why they couldn’t get him sold and I got a very well bred Belgian WB for free. He hadn’t been ridden in years. I spent a whole year putting ground manners on him and he is great for me or any other person that is assertive but he will still bully someone that does not know to stand their ground and demand their personal space. Because of this in the spring and summer when I have babies coming I put him out in the back field with another gelding in hopes that my non horsey family doesn’t walk in the field with him why they show up to play with the babies when I’m not home (I know…I know…but I haven’t been able to break them of it in the last 4 years I don’t see it happening)
Besides that he is great and is an extremely talented and fun to ride individual.