Menu

Stay in Touch
Sign up for ENews
Subscribe Now

Unlimited access >

Menu

What's a Huge Grain Meal and Other Feeding Questions

Horse Care
#1

Several times I’ve seen “a huge grain meal” when speaking about horse diets and not sure what that is? How huge in terms of pounds is a meal that is huge? This is a general question. Typically what is considered huge or too much for one sitting?

And how about beet pulp, hay cubes, hay/ alfalfa pellets? If a horse requires 1.5 - 2% of his body weight in hay/ feed daily how much do you feed at one time? Do you divide for two meals? Three?

I’m currently feeding Clifford 3 times a day. Between meals he has grass that isn’t highly nutritious (just bermuda and safe weeds/grasses around the yard) but keeps him busy and with something going through his stomach and intestines. His supplements and electrolytes/salt are spread over the three meals. I don’t mind feeding him 3X a day but is this best? would he do better with twice daily or four times daily? How much in terms of dry weight before soaking, is healthy for each meal?

Should I feed beet pulp first or soaked alfalfa cubes?

When he had a hay roll I never thought about these things and he was at a better weight for his frame. Now I feel like I’m feeding him what is recommended but he is thin and I can tell what time it is when he is at his feeding station waiting.

#2

“Huge” is relative, too subjective, I agree :yes:

In general, you want no more than 5lb (dry weight) for an average horse. If that is a highly forage-based meal, then you can creep into 6, maybe 7lb. But it’s a volume thing too, how long it takes the horse to eat it, how much of that food will end up in the stomach at the same time.

This doesn’t apply to an all-forage meal, simply because it just takes so long to chew the long-stem fiber, and that fiber is starting to break down via chewing and saliva production. The more concentrated the meal, even if it’s soaked alfalfa pellets, the less saliva is produced because it requires less chewing…

If a horse is getting 10lb of feed a day, then technically you can do that in 2, 5lb meals. For some horses that’s totally fine. For others, they may get more out of that same 10lb if it’s in 3 meals, divided however makes sense based on the scoop you’re using (as in, it doesn’t have to be evenly divided).

None of this applies to hay. For a thin horse, all the hay he will eat, and if you can make some of that alfalfa, 20-30% of the hay, even better (assuming no issues with alf).

“Now I feel like I’m feeding him what is recommended but he is thin” - what are you feeding, and how much?

1 Like
#3

Thank you. I’m bringing a roll of freshly baled coastal on Monday. He was getting alfalfa hay as well until a few weeks ago. I stopped feeding it to the goats due to the molybdenum interfering with copper but I see your point about chewing and saliva. I can feed it again, just for him.

Right now he is getting about 16 lbs.(dry weight) a day of alfalfa cubes soaked plus alfalfa/timothy cubes soaked divided into three feedings about 3 lbs. of beet pulp shreds soaked divided in two feedings which I feed after the soaked hay cubes in the first two feedings. My feed store hasn’t been reliable lately and I’ve switched from alf pellets to cubes depending on availability. His poop looks good but he is gassy and he is always hungry. I’ll start adding cocosoya when it arrives.

He was definitely more satisfied when he had hay available and not hay cubes or pellets so I hope he is able to chew it.

#4

For the “average” sized horse (1000-1200 lbs), typically it is recommended to not feed more than 5 lbs of grain/concentrate per feeding.
Forage/hay does not really have a limit, though some horses just won’t finish a huge volume. Healthiest for many horses is free-choice 24/7, though those with dietary restrictions cannot have such.

1-2% of a horse’s bodyweight per day in food is a general guideline. My 1200 lb 21 year old thoroughbred gelding and 1200 lb 10 year old thoroughbred mare eat far more than that. They eat a ~700-800 lb round bale in two weeks, average 25+ lbs/day hay each. They also each get ~5 lbs (dry) soaked alfalfa cubes and ~7 lbs grain per day (split between two feedings). So, they’re both eating about 2% bw in hay, and 3% bw total each day in food of some kind. They’re also out on a 2-acre grass field 24/7 - overgrazed bahia grass, minimal contribution to diet. The gelding is retired, he does nothing with his life. The mare is worked 5-6 days per week. On the exact same diet, she’s a tad beefy, he’s a tad thin - on purpose, vet and I agree to keep him around 4.5 on the Henneke scale because has navicular disease in both fronts. He has always been an impossible keeper, and he does not need to be overweight. They’re all different. The alfalfa cubes with the grain is a rather high volume that takes them each about 30-40 minutes to eat. That is the most either of them will eat in one sitting, if I try to give more alfalfa cubes they leave it, so when necessary it requires a lunch.

1 Like
#5

Thank you. That’s very helpful. I think we went t wrong when he stopped eating his hay. He is a hard keeper. That 7-800 lb roll every three weeks was a big contributor and nothing has replaced that much forage. I don’t have the grass he needs and the cubes etc. just aren’t enough even at 2% of his weight.

1 Like
#6

Is there a reason you’re using such high volume to calorie ratio feeds? Soaked hay cubes/pellets/beet pulp is a lot of volume for the roughly 1000 cal/lb they provide. Beet pulp is especially high volume once soaked.

What does “always hungry” mean, exactly?

2 Likes
#7

The only reason would be I don’t know what I’m doing(???) I honestly don’t know. His diet has become a part-time job for me. Trying to keep his diet low starch (he tested negative for IR). He stopped eating hay back in March or April; hoping that it was just the dryness of last year’s hay that kept him from chewing properly. He is missing some teeth. I want to switch him to a low starch pellet and try him on hay and back off of this soaking job I’ve gotten myself into. Do you have any suggestions? Waiting on cocosoya which is being shipped.

By always hungry, I mean he never seems satisfied. I’m feeding him about 20 lbs of timothy/alfalfa/beet pulp shreds plus the grass he gets grazing and it doesn’t seem like enough. His vets have always told me alfalfa and beet pulp shreds so that is what I do. His last vet told me to feed about 12 pounds of his senior feed a day but since there was concern he might be IR/ PPID I don’t do that. I think 12 lbs of grain is over the top for a pasture ornament anyway… a low starch pellet and first cutting hay would help. What do you think?

#8

I think you should listen to your vet. Your horse is losing weight on the diet you are feeding him. 12 lbs of senior feed a day is not a lot when the horse can’t eat enough forage to hold his weight. Split it into 3 feedings if possible. Senior feeds usually have beet pulp or other roughage in them - read the label.

Another thing that may be bothering him is the change in diet. You want to make changes slowly over time, especially with roughage. Sounds like he had a couple changes, and they were not gradual.

#9

Which senior feed are you using? Most of them are designed to be “complete” meaning they replace long stem forage for horses with teeth issues, and are designed to be fed as a sole food source and/or can be combined with other forage sources such as hay, cubes, pellets.

Triple Crown Senior is low NSC so if that’s a concern, make sure you’re checking those values on whatever product you are using.

Which of his teeth are the issue, molars or front teeth? Right now I’m feeding a senior with no molars. Soft spring grass she can chew, but now with it being drier and coarser, she quids it. Her other feed is senior and cubes which are thoroughly soaked and I provide her with hay to quid on. All that keeps her tummy happy, her weight is good too.

Other seniors I’ve fed, we mixed beet pulp with hay pellets and ration balancer, all soaked, fed 3x day. One horse was IR so we soaked the beet pulp, drained it, soaked it again, drained. Might have been overkill but made darn sure any sugar was gone from it.

You’ve gotten good advice here from other posters.

1 Like
#10

So the horse stopped eating hay completely in March? And hasn’t eaten hay since then? Or you haven’t tried giving him hay again?

I am glad you’re getting hay - it sounds like there is no way that he is getting enough to eat and/or the timing of the meals is not working for him.

I agree that you need to know what is the problem with his teeth and which teeth they are. Not being able to chew hay is a big problem, but there could be a lot of reasons for that (e.g. a cracked tooth, missing tooth, teeth needing to be floated, etc.)

What did the vet/dentist find wrong?

#11

While not a bad idea to keep things on the low side, you don’t have to be ultra-concerned for a non-IR horse. There are lots of good options, but we need to know what brand you can get. One of the more widely available, low NSC, quality feeds is Triple Crown Senior, which is 11.7% NSC, one of the lowest NSC feeds, maybe the lowest NSC Sr feed

He stopped eating hay back in March or April;

I don’t understand this ^ in the context of all this below

He was definitely more satisfied when he had hay available and not hay cubes or pellets so I hope he is able to chew it.

What makes you think he wasn’t chewing it beforew? I understand some missing teeth (molars? how many?), but if he was maintaining better weight and was more satisfied, it seems he was getting quite a lot from the hay

Triple Crown Sr is a widely available feed, but there are other options that can be suggested if we know what you can get.
Waiting on cocosoya which is being shipped.

By always hungry, I mean he never seems satisfied. I’m feeding him about 20 lbs of timothy/alfalfa/beet pulp shreds plus the grass he gets grazing and it doesn’t seem like enough.

Not knowing still what “not satisfied” looks like, I don’t know how to answer that. It may simply be a mental issue that he was not getting enough chew time.

His vets have always told me alfalfa and beet pulp shreds so that is what I do.

Did they give a reason? Sadly, too many vets know too little about feeding :frowning:

His last vet told me to feed about 12 pounds of his senior feed a day but since there was concern he might be IR/ PPID I don’t do that. I think 12 lbs of grain is over the top for a pasture ornament anyway… a low starch pellet and first cutting hay would help. What do you think?

Pasture ornament, “just a trail horse”, “just a kids horse”, has no bearing on what a horse requires to be healthy.

What made you feel he might be IR?

Cutting of hay and quality is all subjective and depends on the details - type of hay, when exactly it was cut relative to its stage of maturity, how well the soil was fertilized, etc.

12lb of feed is not at all over the top for a pasture ornament, or any horse, if their hay/grass is not providing the calories and nutrition they need. You were feeding 20lb of concentrates already, just of a forage variety.

Your last vet had no idea how much senior feed he would need, so 12lb seems sort of random. I would assume, for now, that you should aim for transitioning to 10lb of the (let’s say) TC Sr, 2 5-lb meals, and see how that, along with bringing back the alfalfa, does after a month of being on that full time, full time.

1 Like
#12

Thank you. I’ve been slack in asking his vets the right questions, mainly because I don’t know what those are and this Ol Man just keeps throwing curve balls at me. When she said he is missing a few teeth and didn’t go into details I didn’t ask. This was his first vet who saw him end of May. He was last floated by her in August 2017 and had all his teeth back, I’ll ask his new vet to look at his teeth when we return end of this month. I haven’t bought anymore hay because that was the best hay my hay guy had in his barn. It was the 2nd roll he left in his paddock untouched and moving those things is very hard for me so I didn’t try again.My hay guy just got first cutting in the barn so I will try again tomorrow and buy a bale of alfalfa as well. He is due to be floated next month.

#13

Senior feeds are not grain, exclusively. They’re (usually) a compete feed, meaning they can be the horse’s sole form of nutrition if they are otherwise unable to eat hay or grass. No, 12 lbs per day of senior feed is not over the top.

2 Likes
#14

Sorry for my rambling without clarity. He stopped eating coastal bermuda hay which I call “hay” but was still chomping on the alfalfa hay, which I usually call “alfalfa” … Thank you for bringing that to my attention. So it couldn’t have been his teeth if he was still eating alfalfa hay until May! I was buying it mainly for my goats but the Ol Man would start to eat it off the trailer when I was unloading. For reasons to do with my goats, I stopped feeding alfalfa hay. It had nothing to do with the horse. Maybe the Bermuda was not palatable and he didn’t want it and had nothing to do with his teeth.

I had posted a photo of my Ol Man’s hoof on a thread called “Woes with the Hoof” and was widely advised to put him on a low starch diet so I changed his diet to mostly forage and had him tested for IR which came back negative (his insulin is normal in other words).

I didn’t mean to imply that because he is not working that I wouldn’t feed him what he needs to be healthy. I just think 12 lbs of concentrate is too much for his activity level and would rather he get the calories from something else other than concentrate. My goal is to have him healthy and fit whether I ride him or not. The Senior feed he was on is 17% nsc and I didn’t want to feed more of it. He’s done well on TC senior before and I can certainly feed it again.

Thank you for the suggestions. I will go to the feed store tomorrow and to the hay field and transition him. Appreciate your help :slight_smile:

#15

It is very easy to do “bad” Bermuda, making it less than palatable.

I had posted a photo of my Ol Man’s hoof on a thread called “Woes with the Hoof” and was widely advised to put him on a low starch diet so I changed his diet to mostly forage and had him tested for IR which came back negative (his insulin is normal in other words).

Gotcha - I saw that thread and started reading it when you posted, but didn’t keep up with it and didn’t connect the 2 threads :slight_smile:

I didn’t mean to imply that because he is not working that I wouldn’t feed him what he needs to be healthy. I just think 12 lbs of concentrate is too much for his activity level

A horse needs what a horse needs, it doesn’t matter what sort of activity level they have. Metabolisms differ, hay and grass quality may go down and require a lot more calories from other sources. Obviously the ideal situation is everyone would be able to feed high enough quality hay to their higher energy needs horses such that additional calories are kept to a minimum, but reality is we don’t always get to have a choice in that .

and would rather he get the calories from something else other than concentrate.

If it’s not hay/grass, it’s a concentrate of some sort. Just because it’s a “feed” doesn’t mean there are grains or that it’s high NSC. Concentrates can be low NSC feeds, including some fortified hay cubes, it can be hay pellets, it can be some form of fat.

The Senior feed he was on is 17% nsc and I didn’t want to feed more of it. He’s done well on TC senior before and I can certainly feed it again.

Excellent :yes:

1 Like
#16

Concerning what is a “huge” meal, I think that is relative. Some might consider the nearly 3 gallon (soaked volume, approx. 10 pounds) meals twice daily for my senior in winter “huge”. But he is 17.2 and approx 1750 pounds. As noted previously, that’s what he needs. Sometimes he even needs a smaller noon meal too. This past winter, I had to adjust his meals four times and his hay twice.

As horses age, so much can change with their bodies - issues with teeth, digestion, absorption, appetite… you name it. It can change from one season to the next and what works one year, may not work the next. It can be a full time job working with their diet to keep them in good form. And it can often be frustrating.

The trick is finding the right combination - and if that means feeding 12 pounds of senior a day in addition to hay, then so be it. So much is trial and error, then if one combination doesn’t work, move on to the next. Using quality feeds, hay, pelleted/cubed hay and supplements certainly help. And being very diligent in assessing your horses’ weight and condition regularly so you can make adjustments in their diet.

2 Likes
#17

You are calling the hay a roll. Does that mean you are feeding a round bale?

#18

Yes. I’ve tried the squares in several fields and stores and they are weedy and long on average. Never know what I will get from one batch to the other. The rolls I buy now are the best I’ve been able to find.

#19

Well another switch now back to alfalfa hay and transitioning to tv senior. Brought home some square bales of coastal Bermuda to see if he likes it. If not the goats may or I’ll use for bedding.

Get your Digital Subscription here - only $21.95 / year

Subscribe here
See gift options

Sign up to our monthly newsletter!

By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.

Copyright © 2023 The Chronicle of the Horse