For such an air fern, the absolute bare minimum amount of hay per day I’d be comfortable feeding would be 1% of their healthy body weight. No grain, just a vitamin/mineral supplement.
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Our vet thought the Thyroxin would make her hungrier, which is why I sourced the wheat straw…but it did seem to have the opposite effect. The weight came off and stayed off, other than minor fluctuations (I am sure the Prascend played a part in keeping the weight off though). Now to keep her owner from taking her for grass…
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I would not cut back the hay to accomplish weight loss beyond what’s appropriate for their health. Starving a fatty has the opposite effect when it comes to weight loss. Test the hay or soak and feed an appropriate % for whatever the horse weighs. And figure a way to keep a muzzle on if the horse is on pasture. Muzzles suck. But they can be life savers.
Edited to be more clear. Not advocating free choice just that you need to calculate what you’re feeding and make sure it’s not a high NSC if so soak.
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How is muzzling OK but providing the right, limited amount of hay not OK when you say starving will not work?
Edit to add - I do not read anyone proposing starving. I read everyone saying limit the hay to the amount the horse should get, not all they want.
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Whether or not to cut back hay depends on what horse is now being fed.
I watched barn pals decide that their horses needed 24/7 hay. The low sugar hay they were sourcing in 4x8 bales was half alfalfa. They were getting these giant bales in nets installed in the stall. I did the math and figured the horses were eating 30 lbs a day.
This worked for the 17 hand warm blood but the QH got obese and had a laminitis attack, and the Morgan got obese and started to stock up. In this case both horses needed less hay. Free choice hay even in nets does not work for easy keepers.
You need a fish or luggage scale to weigh your hay, so you know what you’re feeding and can track the changes.
I totally understand the argument for free choice hay, but IMHO the danger of obesity leading to laminitis then founder is way too dangerous to mess with. Once that happens you have a lifetime management nightmare.
I wouldn’t restrict below 15 lbs a day on a big horse. I wouldn’t let the horse sit hungry for 12 hours. But reduced intake leads to weight loss just as in feral horses in the winter. Feral horses actually go through weight cycles, fat in summer thin in winter.
We tend to let stable horses get fat in winter on hay because less riding then fatter in summer on grass.
Horses can handle reduced intake.
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My point was that reducing hay below 1% of body weight will have the opposite effect. Muzzling is important for whatever pasture time the horse has. I would not cut hay below that. I know people with fatties on dry lots that they throw less than a couple of flakes per day to achieve weight loss. Their horses are still overweight and hungrier than ever. Because they’re metabolic.
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Certainly feed hay in an appropriate amount for the horse desired weight. Cutting below that will make metabolic horses hungrier.
Edited my post for clarity. There is a line between regulating and cutting back the forage too far that can backfire.
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I don’t ever weigh my hay. I feed what they need and weight has never been an issue. My current mare started getting fat at 5 when on good pasture. I tried several things but what worked for her is our move up North where they had a large ( 2 acre) dry lot and she ( and 2 herd mates) were fed a hefty amount of alfalfa / grass hay 2x a day. They were not starving and it took them a long while to eat it all.
The rest of the time they would wander around looking for green to eat and over the next few months she was at a great weight and stayed there.
He may not be "happy " but he will adjust to not having hay 24/7 and he will wander around searching for anything edible in his turnout , getting some exercise in the process.
Riding twice a day won’t hurt him as long as he is fit enough, but truthfully he may be more unhappy about that then having his hay limited.
My horses have never had hay 24/7 unless they were old and a slow eater penned by themselves.
My mare I mentioned above is back to a state where we have great pasture again and at 16 she wears a muzzle when on grass. She has no issues with weight when on ample hay, just the grass.
If my horse doesn’t need hard feed for weight I have no issue not feeding any. Usually they get a handful at haltering or if I am feeding one. Keeps everyone happy. My young gelding gets feed now, the 2 mares get a 1/2 cup RB morning & evening with a vms.
I’d also cut out the elite and switch to a lower NSC ration balancer before doing anything with hay.
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The calorie difference between 4c of Elite, and the 2-3c of a balancer (ie 1lb) isn’t a significant calorie difference
It would be better nutrition though.
For that matter, 1/2-1lb of a grass hay pellet and a forage balancer would be fine as well
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This is why I like my big hard keeping horses. It’s a lot less hassle. Just a bigger hay bill.
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I would speculate that in general hay would be less sugary than grass. I understand the OP horse has some insulin / metabolic concerns. I’d think like you that muzzling to reduce grass time would be a more valuable strategy than excessively reducing hay during dry lot time.
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Especially with concerns re insulin / metabolic disorder, that switch seems sensible.
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My point exactly. Especially because sometimes a pasture described as sparse or dry can be distressed and distressed grass can be very high in sugar as it’s trying to survive.
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Hay is as sugary as the grass was when cut. Sugar levels don’t equal palatability. Horses generally prefer any grass to any hay. Horses also take in far more calories faster with hay than with grass.
Of course. My point being you can test hay or soak it. Grass not so much. And you can regulate hay intake based on body weight and percentage being fed. So muzzle on grass and control hay appropriately after learning what you are supplying via nsc
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You’re right of course.
I’m letting my locality blind me.
Farmers cut as early in the am as possible here.
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Also my grass has nothing in common with the hay I feed. Locality and where your hay is sourced from matters. That’s why I question the type and nsc value of the hay. I’m in Florida. My pasture is Bahia and coastal Bermuda grass. My hay is straight Timothy with a topping of alfalfa. If my horse were overweight or metabolic I would muzzle him and test what hay was available. And control what I fed and the amount careful not to dip below what is appropriate
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Right. Be funny as heck to me to have alfalfa growing in the paddocks. Can’t even imagine!
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My God I wish lol. Or some nice Timothy or Orchard.
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