What's the least amount of hay/grain you're comfortable feeding?

[iJump]

Still trying to get weight off my fat horse.

He’s down to 2 cups of Purina Elite, just enough to carry his supplements. Twice daily.

I give all supplements at night so thinking of making the AM feed a handful.

Also cut way down on hay. He’s been getting a lot more exercise.

I know weight loss isn’t going to happen overnight but how quickly is too quickly?

What is the least amount of hay/grain you are comfortable feeding?

I have tried double bagging hay with small hole nets but this guy is crafty! Should I try adding a third?

Suggestions?!

[Scribbler]

I’ve gone as low as 15 lbs a day of hay longterm with my easy keeper. Multiple small feedings.

I don’t think they need grain at all. A cup of beet pulp or hay cubes soaked to carry a vitamin mineral supplement.

[iJump]

I think the Elite is essentially mainly beet pulp with a tiny amount of the Athlete in it. It’s a bit of a sticky grain so the supplements stick to it well. He won’t eat anything soaked unfortunately or the hay cubes would be a great idea.

Will definitely start doing a small handful for AM feeding.

[iJump]

@Scribbler

A cup of beet pulp

I wonder if he would eat the beet pulp with the molasses. He definitely won’t eat the non-molasses.

Wouldn’t the molasses beet pulp have more calories/sugar than the Elite?

[CHT]

In the fall I had a client finally acknowledge that her horse was obese. We put her on thyroxin for a short while (not sure the actually product name) to help get some weight off quickly and reduced her hay to 4.5 flakes a day (about 15 lbs). When the weather got cold, I added some wheat straw (as per our vet) and she was also getting 2 cups of a ration balancer. Having a net did not slow this horse down- scattering her hay through her paddock was more useful. The odd thing is that since being on thyroxin, her appetite decreased? We also found out she had Cushings, so possible the prascend is also decreasing her appetite…but she always has some bits of hay scattered in her pen. The horse is a 15.1 hand teenager who doesn’t get ridden.

[Scribbler]

I have no idea what’s in Elite

A cup of beet pulp swells us to a very substantial looking meal and hides supplements nicely. Not many calories.

I don’t think a horse needs grain twice a day unless you are trying to pack on weight.

[CHT]

Elite is low glycemic, but high calorie. It is meant for hard working horses, breeding horses, or young horses. You aren’t feeding much though, but it is not what I would consider a diet food.

[CHT]

Elite is sticky because it is coated in molasses.

[iJump]

@CHT

Elite is sticky because it is coated in molasses.

You are right! I just checked the ingredient list. Not sure why I thought this one wasn’t.

[iJump]

I believe the hay is the culprit. His turnout is mostly dry except for the edges.

BUT… he is not happy in turn out at all without hay. I’ve also tried the scattered hay thing.

Thinking about riding this one twice per day for a while to try and burn extra calories but is that fair to the horse?

[Bbs20]

One of the horses I care for is IR. He probably gets 15lbs of forage a day. Absolutely no grain, we aren’t worried about deficiencies as the horse has great feet, energy, and a super healthy coat. Even two handfuls a day would make his sheath swell. If I need to give him any supplements or medicine I’d use Triple Crown Safe Starch or timothy pellets. Personally, I would never feel comfortable letting them go more than two hours without forage. We could have made his weight come off faster but, we wanted him to be with his friends at least 12 hours a day. Gut health and socialization is so important to his owner and I, and was prioritized over rapid weight loss. But, he did loose ~100lbs in three months by muzzling 24/7 and consistent light exercise program. Hay nets and muzzles are your best friends. Exercising twice a day won’t hurt them. They really just need to keep their gut and legs moving.

[iJump]

I also want to add that I tried 2 styles of muzzle and he stopped drinking.

[Kaluna]

I’d go with a non molassesses balancer product.He doesn’t need extra sugar. I’d just feed balancer. He won’t starve himself when presented with food and he’s hangry. Keep up with the dry lot and slow fed hay bags. Too bad if he’s not happy. Constant forage is good. I’d cut the grain before cutting the hay. And or cutting quality of hay if necessary. Colorado Grass hay and NM alfalfa? No. Somewhat quality local hay should be fine and should make up the bulk on this horses diet. In a dry lot.

[Peggy]

@CHT

In the fall I had a client finally acknowledge that her horse was obese. We put her on thyroxin for a short while (not sure the actually product name) to help get some weight off quickly and reduced her hay to 4.5 flakes a day (about 15 lbs). When the weather got cold, I added some wheat straw (as per our vet) and she was also getting 2 cups of a ration balancer. Having a net did not slow this horse down- scattering her hay through her paddock was more useful. The odd thing is that since being on thyroxin, her appetite decreased? We also found out she had Cushings, so possible the prascend is also decreasing her appetite…but she always has some bits of hay scattered in her pen. The horse is a 15.1 hand teenager who doesn’t get ridden.

One of the signs of insulin resistance is being hungry all the time. Could the thyroxin helped enough with the IR to have this effect?

[S1969]

@iJump

I believe the hay is the culprit. His turnout is mostly dry except for the edges.

BUT… he is not happy in turn out at all without hay. I’ve also tried the scattered hay thing.

Thinking about riding this one twice per day for a while to try and burn extra calories but is that fair to the horse?

How much hay are you feeding (in weight) now?

I agree with others that ~15lbs is the lower limit in my opinion. But how it is fed matters a lot. If you could give 5 rations of 3lbs each it would be better than 3 rations of 5lbs each. Because my horses could polish off 5lbs of hay in less than an hour, so it would be a lot of time without anything.

But - if you were feeding 25 lbs of hay now, I’d cut it back to 20 for starters. If you’re already feeding 15lbs, I wouldn’t cut it back at all.

[Ponycatraz]

Also make sure your hay nets are free hanging. My fatty can polish off a double netted hay bag quick by pushing it against the wall. Once I moved to free hanging I could go to a single net.

I like the standlee teff hay pellets as a carrier. Low calorie and low sugar.

The lowest I will go is 1% of the weight I want my horse to be. In the case of my hony that was 9lbs setup so it was just about always available. Now that I have him fit it’s free fed.

My hony was also a master at getting his muzzle off so we made him a dry lot. We are all happier to not have to deal with the muzzle!

Updated to fix my percentage as I typed this out before my first cup of coffee…

[Obsidian_Fire]

Following… we have a fatty at the barn who’s owner is struggling with this. She wants to decrease hay even less than 15# (it’s tested low sugar) but we are telling her not a good idea… but obviously we need something that will work.

[Jealoushe]

Instead of riding twice a day, try some more impact high rides. Like adding trot or canter sets if he’s fit enough.

He should have hay 24:7. Get some smaller hole hay nets… and maybe look for less quality hay.

[JB]

15lb of hay as a lower limit for what ideal weight of horse? Certainly not a 1500lb horse

Start in terms of 2% of their ideal weight.

How fat is he?

How long has he been on this total package, including “a lot more exercise” (and what does that look like)? This may decide whether it’s time to do blood work to formally check for insulin resistance.

What style muzzles did you try?

@iJump

Wouldn’t the molasses beet pulp have more calories/sugar than the Elite?

By Elite, I assume you mean this?
Equine athlete horse nutrition - Evolution Elite // equipurina.ca

Pound for pound, beet pulp shreds take up more space than even this pelleted/extruded mix feed. So your same 4c would be less weight, and since on a pound for pound basis beet pulp is fewer calories (around 1000 vs, I’m going to guess, 1300-1400), you’d be dropping calories. The amount of molasses added is small, and even overall, I almost guarantee the beep is still lower than the Elite.

But if he won’t eat it soaked, it won’t matter - even with some added molasses it’s not sticky

do you have enough hay to make it worth testing?

[trubandloki]

@Ponycatraz

Also make sure your hay nets are free hanging. My fatty can polish off a double netted hay bag quick by pushing it against the wall. Once I moved to free hanging I could go to a single net.

This! Totally this!

A free hanging small hole hay net slows them down quite a bit.

My crazy easy keepers only get their itty-bitty-only-big-enough-to-hide-supplements ration once per day. No reason to give a second grain meal. I admit it was hard for my brain to do this too. My whole life I have been taught that horses should never have their grain fed in one meal, but… with such a tiny amount of hard feed there really is no reason to give a second meal.