What's the value on this horse? Should we pull the trigger? Pitfalls? (With Video)

[Mimisdad]

Looking at a horse my daughter has been half leasing. We know the owner (daughter shares the half lease with the owner), and she’s looking to offload the horse.

We’ve never owned a horse, but are currently boarding at one of/probably the best barns in the area. I am worried about the extra expense of owning a horse (I know not a good place to be in!) but we know that potentially we might lose this horse if she sells it, and we want her for the next year.

The horse is a 2007 16.2 Oldenburg mare.

The horse has multiple wins in the 1.10m jumpers at A rated shows, and has won our region’s (pretty competitive) medal finals 2x. The horse has numerous top 5 derby finishes up until 2018.

it’s been described as a perfect 3’ “packer” that can take just about anyone around a hunter course from first timers to seasoned vets. The horse gets excited in the jumper ring, but in the hunter ring the mare is rock solid and doesn’t seem to be as excitable as other horses when they potentially spook or rear up.

The horse was diagnosed in 2018 with a heart murmur (grade 3) and can only work “hard” one time a day. It was then leased out as a pleasure horse until we started leasing it back on property this year.

That said, the horse is an extremely sweet horse that my daughter shows in the 13 year old hunters, and the barn wants to half lease the horse back on the days we aren’t riding for lead line and cross bar lessons…the horse is a VERY safe, steady, solid mare.

Only ailments from the PPE are the heart medications for the murmur, no supplements or steroids or special foods required. The horse has been solid for the 13 years it’s been at this barn (born and raised here).

The worry is this–the expenses of having the horse (of course) that are not seen right now, plus the fact that the training staff thinks my daughter will need a new horse in 2022. Regarding that, I’d be out the money, but I could find someone to free lease/keep the horse, potentially someone even close to us here locally and my daughter could still see her/ride her on occasion (at the place my daughter first started riding–the trainer would love to have the horse as a lesson horse for kids).

SO…what are the thoughts from the people on the forum?

Here’s a video:

Autumn Classic 2020 Low Children's Hunters

[Lucassb]

I would have an independent veterinarian evaluate the murmur and explain to you exactly what you would be dealing with. There are many different types of murmurs, with different prognoses. I would want to thoroughly understand this particular horse’s condition was before making a decision.

That said, if the vet is comfortable that that mare can tolerate the amount of work you want to do safely, there is value in purchasing a horse that you already know well on a day to day basis through a lease. If the horse can safely and comfortably also do the other jobs you mention - as a low level lesson horse, as you describe - that can help with expenses, which may be a consideration as well. If you use the mare for a year and then sell her on as a lesson horse, be aware that the sales price will more likely reflect the (lower) value of a lesson horse vs a show horse. That may or may not be a consideration but it is something to be aware of.

Given the horse’s documented history of a murmur, that will likely be excluded from any insurance coverage you could obtain, but it’s worth discussing with a knowledgeable agent to understand what your options are. Particularly if you are worried about unexpected costs, having a good policy in place for mortality and if desired, major medical, can be useful.

Perhaps your trainer could offer guidance around other costs you could expect; at a minimum I would expect to have a good handle on vet, farrier, any bodywork/chiropractic services that are required along with the usual tack/blankets etc.

[Gardenhorse]

I’m struck by the fact that you’re worried about the expense of owning this horse, but you also think your daughter is going to need a more advanced horse in two years. You think you will be able to free lease out this horse as a lesson horse, but what if that falls through or the physical issues become too much for the horse to work as a lesson horse. Will you have the money for retirement board for the horse and also to board a second horse?

[trainer_Xalter]

Oh gosh if this pandemic has taught any of us anything it’s do not bet on anything being certain in a year, 2 years, what have you.

A known quantity horse is priceless. Buy it.

And of course the training staff says your daughter will need another horse in X time. That’s how they make their money, new horse, new horse, new horse. That means new commission, new commission, new commission. Forget that noise. Buy the horse.

[dags]

@trainer_Xalter

And of course the training staff says your daughter will need another horse in X time. That’s how they make their money, new horse, new horse, new horse. That means new commission, new commission, new commission. Forget that noise. Buy the horse.

To be fair, the horse is limited to 3’ and below. It is quite likely the kid will advance and outgrow its abilities in 2 years.

I hesitate to quote a reasonable “price” without more scrutiny, but am curious to know what they are asking for it. Getting ready to be 14 years on top of everything else.

[Mimisdad]

@dags we could probably take her for $5-$10k.

Doing the math, in 2022, I think she’ll still be in 3’ children’s hunters and children’s equitation (she’ll still be in the 13 year olds) so I think maybe the horse would be fine thorough that season?

[Mimisdad]

Here’s another one of the horse.

Murieta Hunters

[Pennywell_Bay]

I would have a GOOD pre purchase vet. It would be worth sending the info to a specialist. Heart murmurs can be benign, some can indicate a structural anomaly and disease. I would want someone who specializes to see the info.

For instance- an MR prolapse causing the murmur is intermittent, occurs in periods of excitement or colic while a VSD murmur show congenital heart disease. The vet can usually tell by the timing of the murmur (late systolic, continuous etc). This is where an ECG trace is helpful.

Systolic murmurs of grade 3 or less not associated with right side systolic- not uncommon type of murmur found on prepurchase. An MR murmur- no go. THIS IS NOT GIVEN AS VET ADVICE- JUST SHARING info to drive home the point- I’d want a good vet who is comfortable diagnosing heart disease.

[dags]

For 5-10k, assuming you cover the bases Pennywell Bay just noted, I’d scoop her up. There will be an issue with every horse that jumps 3’ safely & attractively in that price range.

Just watching the 2nd video, your kid has plenty to learn before you need the next one, and she looks absolutely perfect to do it on.

[Sue_B]

I’d buy her in a heart beat. That horse is a saint and exactly what your daughter needs to learn on. Talk about a true confidence-builder!

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

$5-10k is a steal for a horse like this–less than you would normally pay to lease such a horse.

With any horse, but especially a teenage horse with a pre-existing condition, there is always the risk she becomes unrideable and you need to figure out a retirement plan for her. (Ask me how I know!) Question: has this mare had any foals? Sometimes that is a viable second career for a mare IF she has good conformation and good bloodlines. (We sent our retiring mare to a breeder, who just sold a nice foal out of her).

[Mimisdad]

@Horsegirl_s_Mom

As for a retirement plan, I live in “horse country” and there are a lot of people that would take her as a pasture horse “off our hands” so to speak.

She has never had a foal, and she has good confirmation and bloodlines…I’ve been told that is an option as well.

[trubandloki]

@Mimisdad

I’ve been told that is an option as well.

Is it the person trying to sell you this horse that is telling you this?

It is not always easy to place a horse that is not usable at the end of its career.

Not trying to be discouraging. Just want to toss that fact out there. This horse does seem like just what your daughter needs right now.

[Mimisdad]

@trubandloki

Our trainer said she’s never been a broodmare, and that she has several places (or even the barn) that could use her as that, because she does have good “background” so so speak.

[dags]

I don’t see anything worth breeding here, and I wouldn’t count on anyone taking her off your hands as a pasture puff either. If she can still teach up-down lessons & x-bars then that will be the best exit plan you can hope for.

[Equkelly]

That’s a bit negative… I wouldn’t rule being a broodmare our out. With good bloodlines, a lovely disposition, and jumping around fine I would breed a horse like that. AS long as the cardio issues are not hereditary.

[Gardenhorse]

I agree that she seems like a good egg and the price is pretty reasonable.

I have several concerns about the viability of the broodmare plan. She would be a 15 year old maiden at that point if the daughter rode her for two years. Equkelly raises a good point about whether the murmur is hereditary. Also, given the murmur, would breeding her also be dangerous to her health? I don’t know how much additional stress pregnancy puts on the heart.

[Mimisdad]

Honestly, I talked to her old barn, and the owner said they’d take her as a lesson horse no problem–and they’re right next door to our house (or close) so my daughter would still be able to visit.

[dags]

Sorry, it probably is, but I see too many castaways and so my criteria for breeding mares has done nothing but get narrower and stricter over the years. This one looks to be a lovely animal but the standards really need to be higher than that. It’s too expensive to breed things that are selling for $10k as young teens with show records.

[Ghazzu]

A murmur is a clinical sign, not a diagnosis. Comparable to how a limping horse is lame, but the causes can be myriad. The fact that the horse is no some sort of medication would indicate that there is some pathology present.
I’d want to at least consult a cardiologist and probably do an echo before I spent money buying this animal. (I’d also expect that this finding would make the horse difficult to sell, especially if the cardiac issue is limiting the animal’s athletic ability.)

Probably just being paranoid with this next part, but I’d be very nervous part-leasing such an animal.
What if the horse collapsed under saddle, resulting in an injury to the rider? That could make a personal injury lawyer salivate.