There is great information in this thread…for sure. I’m VERY appreciative.
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I think non-horse parents sometimes only see the best in their kid’s riding and not always the reality. Growing up my dad always told anyone who would listen about how great of a rider I was despite that not being the case. He’s just not a horse person so he’s got no idea of what to watch for and could watch me miss every distance and not see a thing wrong with it.
Your kid looks like a wonderful little rider but she is has a lot to learn. She’s a beginner and looks like she’s on the right track with a good horse and is competing at an appropriate level.
FWIW, I’m in my 20’s now and I wish my parents were realistic about my abilities as a kid. My equine education was very stunted because my parents were under the impression that I was a way better rider than I really was. They didn’t pay for lessons or take training seriously because they just thought I was so great so surely they didn’t need to spend money learning to ride because I was already perfect rider in their eyes.
It doesn’t matter if your kid is winning ribbons, or riding the more advanced lesson horses, or if she’s the best kid in her lesson group, she will always have a lot to learn so please remember that and don’t get complacent.
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Her cousin wins in the 1.30s on the national level, and is only a little older than she is. I am well aware of her place in the heirarchy…not to mention that she will NEVER be the “best” or have the best horse, or the best “anything really”…because, well, Dad isn’t a billionaire.
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The mare seems lovely and saintly and just the kind of horse I would want to teach a child at your daughter’s level. If she has a record at the 3’, then so much the better, because your daughter can learn a lot from her for longer.
If your daughter were my sister, I would probably want her staying at the 2’6" for another year or two- she looks like she’s learning this year, next year she can keep learning and get solid in the 2’6" by end of year, the year after that she can be competently showing 2’6" and 2’9" while stepping up to larger fences and more technical questions at home. Then she can have a solid year in the 3’ equitation and the National derbies, which looks like this mare’s bread and butter.
Your instructors know more about how your daughter has progressed than I do, but I don’t see a reason from the videos in front of me that you need to plan for a new horse in 2022.
Worst case scenario with any horse is that you buy it and the next day it does something goofy in the field and it’s pasture-sound but not rideable for the rest of its life. If that happened to this horse, what would be your financial plan to ensure that it was well cared for through the end of its days, which with vet advancements these days could be 30 years old? If you aren’t ready to answer that question, or if your answer is predicated by it being somebody’s pasture puff for low or no cost, you aren’t ready to own a horse. The $5-$10k purchase price is the easy part. 
If you have a game plan to be able to do that in addition to the game plan to afford her while she is competing, and the vet agrees that this horse is sound for the purpose intended, you might as well pull the trigger. But budget for that worst case scenario, not the happy path. Worst that happens is that you have more money in your pocket than you thought.
For what it’s worth, providing a vet cardiologist felt she were serviceably sound and I were financially equipped to keep her that way, I’d buy her for my mother in a heartbeat. She looks gold-plated.
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I am a little bit confused by the “one hard workout” per day limitation. Does that mean if you show and the classes are spread out across the day, she can’t do that?
Horse ownership is expensive. Full stop. Is this mare lovely and well worth her purchase price and a seeming good fit for the kiddo? Yes. But even without an underlying health condition, there are shoes, dentist, vaccines, deworming, probably at least periodic exams for soundness and the heart issue of varying expense. There could always be some injury or colic. Any time my horse gets a tiny cut, he winds up needing antibiotics. All of them have something. And then of course the lessons and shows you are used to paying for.
And all of the foot care, dental care, vaccines etc don’t stop when the horse stops becoming a show horse.
So I would say figure out your budget. Can you fit this horse into that budget with plenty of wiggle room, even if the barn didn’t half lease her? If not, then no horse will outside of the partial lease situation. This horse seems to be a good match for the kid, and there is some value in going with the horse you know.
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This horse would sell for 3x this price in Chicago.
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If this kid were my kid, I’d buy the horse. Here are my reasons:
- She is a safe mount for my learning child.
- She is better at the job than my kid, meaning my kid can focus on improving herself.
- My kid will cry if she is sold out from under her.
- Not often a packer like this comes avail, even with a ding in a PPE, at such a danged affordable price, and I’d kick myself for missing out and having to spend possibly double on something half as nice when any horse at any time can drop dead or maim itself.
Buy the horse Dad. Or I will 
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She’s a lovely hunter and honest as hell to the jumps even when she’s not ridden to a perfect spot. If this is how she is day in and day out, I’d say she’s perfect for what your daughter needs right now. She needs to be able to make mistakes and not have a horse freak out and punish her for it. (Although that would make her a better rider too. This one will let the trainer point out the mistake and just get the kid over the jump safely.) I’d definitely talk to a few vets, see what she might cost to maintain over the next 5 years, or what if she’s unrideable at some point? If she remains healthy and able to do 2’6" to 3" for the next 2-5 years, she’s worth her weight in gold as a teacher though.
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Hey @Mimisdad, I took the winky face to mean “well F you, I know better”, not “haha I know right!”, so even simple emojis be interpreted differently.
OTOH. I love the horse, what a nice horse! My two cents … when I was that age, I rode sporting events (barrels, poles etc)… but I had an old placid plod. Like, “mother’s dream” type pony. Sure it sucked coming last in the fast events, but the relationship I had with my pony over the years was priceless, and my mum counted her blessings with him every day because she knew I was in safe hooves.
Ask your daughter what her priorities are. Is competing in the AA championships (Maclay etc - sorry, neither a hunter nor an American so not real familiar with the lingo) her absolute goal, or is she more invested in THIS horse, being a kid and having fun? It’s great to have the talented one, but sometimes at that age… you want to be able to bomb around bareback and take selfies and wear Halloween costumes just that tiny bit more than showing every weekend. Or not! She might be super super competitive!
What about school? Is she keen on doing extremely well and taking advanced classes, getting into a top uni and doing medicine (for example), to the point where she knows/ feels horses will take a backseat in her senior years? That might also come into play when deciding if, in two years time, you need to a) sell this mare to fund the Young Green Talented One, or b) this mare will be slowing down at the same time your daughter anticipates taking a step back from showing, and could simply enjoy the mare on a more casual basis whilst concentrating on school / career type things.
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Kid seems to ride like a sensible, thinking rider learning the finer points of doing it correctly.
Horse is perfect for that, as some have said, priceless.
Kid is learning confidence and to stay with the task, a good round and a better one than last time the goal, more than beating others at it.
If kid is the more aggressive, active one, wanting things to happen, being over horsed fine, just adds to the fun, winning an important goal, seat of the pants rounds what makes this game fun, more than getting it all right, then the kid will soon need more horse.
May wake this horse up fine to be that, but the heart condition makes that questionable.
May be why horse is so laid back and a packer now.
You have so much more now to consider with all these ideas floating out there.
Only you know the answers to what has been brought up.
Going by the two videos, a nice, sensible, quiet kid is what we can see.
Is that the situation, or just how the kid is.
If she is like that, that horse would be great to learn more and have fun and, again, priceless for that kid.
Some, but not every kid wants a dragon to tame and show the world how to do it. 
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My main concern here is for the sweet mare. So if you buy her and then your child needs to move up, loses interest or the mare is no longer rideable - WHAT HAPPENS TO THE MARE? This darling mare deserves a sound plan and not just “giving her away” as a pasture puff because they end up not being cared for and sent to slaughter. Going to a lesson program is not much of a reward - alot of kids riding her daily that are bad with their aids. Present her pedigree to a legitimate breeder and get some answers. OR take her to an inspection and have her approved to see how she rates as a breeding prospect and have a reproductive exam done as well. She is perfect for your daughter and is such a forgiving, sensible, honest mare, I would be damned sure her future is a good one once she is crossed off of your list! I just watched a video of horses going through an auction and a Humane Society rescue group bought 21! Two had to be put down as the pain and prognosis was that bad. But what about the rest they didn’t get? They go every week or two - kudos to them. But there are registered show horses in bad shape going through. Just consider the mare’s options once you are done with her and make sure she is safe and secure! We owe them that!
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I think we all forget that we can only secure a good life for our horses in one basic way. We have to educate them. A well trained and forgiving horse has the best chance of landing soft in this world.
A nice mare like this, who will take every joke, campaign a kid on the flat and over low fences is priceless. I would buy her, let her teach your daughter more than any instructor ever could and use the money you saved to give her the best medical care you can. For the asking price you mentioned, you could spend that much on failed PPE’s and travel expenses to try to find another horse that may not be all that she is.
Start looking for a place for her good hearted self to land. Not everyone cares that a horse is perfect. Some of us know we are never going back to the top of the game, we value a horse that is going make our day more relaxed, better, even if we haven’t ridden in a week. We look for a horse that we can stroll around on. If I saw this mare in 4-5 years, with her resume, training and attitude, she would interest me as a safe horse for my twilight years or for my potential grand daughter to start as an intro walk trot horse. I would rather have my kid on a horse that has a heart murmur, than one who will give me a heart attack.
You will make contacts in the horse world and just remember to keep in touch with people who might offer a good place and a retirement for an easy job.
I sold a schoolmaster once, he was Mr. Precise, you got what you asked for, exactly what you asked for. Trainer asked why he would not track straight, I had to tell her it was because she was sitting crooked and he thought she was asking for leg yield. He had a heart murmur at age 14. With the help of AU cardiology, he took that kid to the Pony Club A’s. He lived to the age of 25, competed until age 23. He was donated to the University upon retirement and was valued and well kept there until his euthanasia for cancer. I give the credit to the family that bought him, they were so careful with him. On the last day she called after the euthanasia and I thanked her for her careful care of him. She replied " no one to thank, he made me and my daughter true dressage riders, I strive everyday to make every horse, ride like him"
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Oh brother.
No one should own a horse bcuz the future is completely uncertain for everyone in the world and someday said horse might find itself up for sale and we all know that means ABUSE! NEGLECT!
Bcuz only wholesale animal abusers buy horses.
Really we should set them all free and stop riding. Dogs too. No more dogs. Or cats. Or any animals at all bcuz it’s slavery and cruelty inherent to own/foster/husband a sentient creature.
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Interesting reading of the fact that Dad mentioned the “after ownership” plan and other people are pointing out that plans go awry.
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That’s a great line.
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My 1.20m junior jumper was diagnosed with a grade 3 heart murmur around that age. He’ll be 28 in 2 months and is still packing beginners around 2’-2’6 6 days a week.
If the price is right, which at $5-10k I would say it is, I would jump on her. She’s cute and safe and exactly what you’d want for your daughter.
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Clarifying the beginner thing. Your daughter has been well taught. She has a good basic design of position, is a quiet, pleasant, non-interfering rider, uses the ring well and understands the geometry of her course. (Watch a 2’ 6" class at a local show and watch the kids going counterbent around the turns, not using all the real estate and starting their turns early and you’ll see what I mean.) She appears to be learning about pace and should soon be progressing to getting the striding reliably and developing an eye for a distance.
This is great! Using the ring and understanding the geometry come before pace, before stiding and before developing an eye.
In some barns she’d be an advanced rider because she’s jumping courses competently and safely and getting pinned. In other barns, she’s a kid that does the unrated divisions on a leased horse. Depends on what you’re comparing her to. Also understand that it’s pretty hard to get farther than she is right now with A LOT of saddle time. So it’s the perfect time for her to have something of her own to really work on getting to the next level.
I really, really like the mare, and pretty much echo everything that’s been said here. I don’t think she will necessarily need a new horse in 2021, I think this one has LOTS to teach her and I can see them moving up together. I do also think she will easily be leased out after daughter has moved up/on. (However, the questions other posters have raised is “What happens when she’s no longer leasable?” Fair question, but hard to predict some years in the future.) In horseshow lingo, this mare has two huge positives: she “can take a joke” and she has “auto changes.” “Can take a joke” means the mare doesn’t care if she gets to the fence at exactly the right spot, she jumps cheerfully and well regardless. “Auto changes” means she recognizes where in the ring she needs to change her lead and does it with no input from her rider. The next step up from this is a “seeing eye dog.” A seeing eye dog nails all its distances without input from the rider; the rider has no “eye for distance” and the horses makes up for it. You can’t afford “a seeing eye dog”, and while they win a lot, they don’t teach a kid as much. The mare isn’t “fancy” or “typey” but she is “cute” and there isn’t a judge alive who won’t smile watching her around a course and won’t wish she were in their barn.
I do think she’s a steal at the price, and that the heart murmur and the work schedule limitiation are keeping other buyers away.
I think the real question is not whether you should buy this horse, but whether you’re ready to take the big step from half leasing to owning. If the answer to the second question is yes; then the answer to the first question is yes.
Best of luck to you, and thanks for being so involved and concerned about your daughter’s riding career. You’re the horse show dad a lot of us wished we had.
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TrainerXalter - we ARE all responsible for these animals. You can be as snarky and selfish as you wish - and probably are. But planning ahead is part of the equation. MY opinion as someone who keeps their broodmares long after they have been producing until they are buried here. The horses are NOT just for the rider’s pleasure and glory, regardless of what you might think. Obviously, one of those “entitled” people who are so tiresome!
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What I have picked up from your posts is that you are worried about the cost of ownership.
Poverty is owning a horse.
What does that mean?
It means exactly that.
If you are in my shoes and already own your own land. Grow our own hay. Already have the tack for different horses. Already have a dressage arena and jumps. Already have a husband who does their hooves and you are given a horse for free. Poverty is still the life for us.
That means no pay TV. No eating out. No coffee at the local shop. No new clothes. No new household appliances. No getting hair cuts. No getting nails done. No getting the fanciest phone. No new cars. No being on a phone plan over $16.00 a month. No movies out. No going to Restaurants, etc, etc, etc
This doesn’t mean just for you. It means for your daughter, your wife and any other member of your family.
You thought it was expensive to keep your daughter in shoes. A horse needs their hooves done every 4 to 6 weeks. You thought your family was expensive to feed. Have you heard the saying ‘eats like a horse’. You thought your family were expensive to clothe. A horse wears saddles, yes plural for different disciplines,
Bridles, a different one at home to show, saddle blankets, rugs, which can be destroyed overnight, etc,etc,etc.
You thought going to a doctor was expensive, don’t even think of the cost of an emergency vet bill at midnight on a public Holiday.
You seem to need a lot of vaccinations over there. That can be once or twice a year. Her teeth need to be done at least once a year, some twice, some 4 times if not a normal wear. You thought rent or mortgage was expensive, now you will have to board. You thought sending your daughter to school was expensive. You should be paying for lessons for your daughter until she is old enough to pay for her own. I started riding before I could walk. My sister used to put me in front of her to jump. I am now 50 yo and I am traveling an hour with my horse to lessons.
You get so much more back and this horse should become a part of your family and be your other daughter. That means that emotionally your family might not want to give her away.
I bought my first horse at the age of 15 yo he was rising 7 yo. He lived to over 30yo. I married later in life and he taught my husband to ride. That is how long they can live for.
By people saying she is priceless. She is exactly that. There is only one thing you care about and that is your daughter’s life. This horse looks safe to ride. You can never guarantee her safeness on horseback, but you buy the safest horse you can and cross your fingers for the rest. You can not buy that which is why she is called priceless. A horse is safe or it is not. At the moment she is safe = priceless.
No horse is perfect. There is another saying. ‘Do not look a gift horse in the mouth.’ Yes you will find something wrong with every horse. As well as every human being. There is a saying in Seabiscuit if you have not seen that movie yet. ’ You do not throw away a whole body if it is banged up a bit’ or something along those lines.
I have no experience with heart murmurs, but most horses owned are only worked once a day. I would need clarification on that sentence. Worked hard half an hour once a day. Work hard an hour. How hard,etc,etc Working 5 minutes on a very hot day might be harder than half an hour on a colder day.
Another thing that is told to new fathers of horse girls. If it is in her blood, she will choose horses over boys. She will become a hard worker at the barn and hopefully that means no boys and no illegal drugs, after all she won’t be able to afford illegal drugs! That, too, is priceless.
Would I buy her? In a heart beat. She is safe and you said she gets more amped up in jumpers which means she is capable of a lot more than we are seeing in those videos, but is happy not doing that as well.
When your daughter rides well enough to collect you will see a completely different horse and rider, find out if the horse is able to collect with a heart murmur.
Follow your vet’s opinion.
If you are that worried about cost, then you pick a hobby/sport/pet that does not eat, does not not need water, does not need a subscription, does not need fuel. That cuts out most things including gardening, you are left with things like push bikes, roller skates, skateboarding and you can make your own pet Rocks! My turn for a
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