What's wrong with this tractor?

2014 JD 4052m. 200 hours or so, second owner. DH was bush hogging and it died one day last week. It restarted easily, ran a few minutes and died again. Got it back to the barn and DH changed the fuel filter, air filter, fuel/water separator. Added diesel cleaner and it cranked right up. Let it idle for about an hour. Turned it off and on several times, seemed to be all good. That was Friday. Topped off the tank with fresh diesel on Saturday and went to bush hog again. It ran fine for about 30 minutes and it died again, just sort of choked down and died. Will not start.

no warning lights on the dash. Never had a moments trouble before this. Ideas?

Deere 4052M ?? Not familiar with a deere 4050M

Sure it’s a 2014 ? Deere has a 72 month powertrain warranty on compact tractors …

Yes sorry 4052.

Check for the simple things. Operator presence seat switch (this will stop the engine and prevent restart) , Sticks or debris in the control linkage. (bush hogging will do things like this) Rats nest in the wiring.

Check your battery cables and terminals. Ask me how I know to suggest this.

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All of the above check out.

Using a ā€œdifferential diagnostic procedureā€ā€¦eg., looking at the clinical signs outlined above to determine the problem

  1. Tractor run then dies
  2. Tractor restarts then dies
  3. Changed the fuel filter, air filter, fuel/water separator + diesel cleaner and it cranked right up.
  4. Runs fine for 1 hr
  5. Added new fuel then engine stops after 30 minutes and won’t restart

My guess is there is debris in the fuel lines starving the engine. Question is where is debris coming from. It could be from rusty fuel tank on tractor or dirty fuel supply.

The fact that the tractor idled for an hour shows it runs ok…but once the tractor started to move, then any debris (like rust) in the fuel tank can start to move into the fuel pickup.

Since the ā€œnewā€ fuel was added prior to the second stall, you can’t tell if debris is in the new fuel or was just debris that was stirred up by the mowing.

If you change out the filters and it starts up again, then that tells you have have a clogging problem in the fuel supply.

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Yeah, I agree that it’s fuel…I can’t figure the best way to deal with 12 gallons of diesel and getting the junk out of there. Such a pita!

One way to check without emptying the tank… take the hose to injection pump off (NOT injection lines) to see if the fuel delivery system will provide fuel. If not work backward toward tank.

Another check…when the engine dies, open the fuel tank cap. If the breather is clogged, the tank develops a vacuum starving the engine.

My first thought was also the seat pressure switch, since this is what just happened to my Bobcat. From the outside it looked like it worked fine, but the wire was loose and would drop down a bit while in motion intermittently, and was actually impossible to see when looked at… But clamped it down a bit and fixed the issue. Happened with me in the seat but not my Dad.

Also, it sounds like you have a VERY handy DH :yes:

Yeah that sensor is a pill! As for dh, he stalled it out in the woods and I got roped into trying to pull it out with the Mule…and got into yellow jackets. Fun times.

Time to hot-wire the switch.

SOLUTION:

There is a ā€˜filter’ that is nowhere on the fuel system diagrams. It is just outside of the fuel tank, to the left of the seat (while seated) under a mass of wiring and the seatbelt harness. Mechanic removed it and tossed it. Said not to replace it, they are more trouble than they are worth. Put about 8-12 hours on the machine and swap the usual filters out again and be done. This shouldn’t be an issue again.

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Sorry I didn’t get to this tread I could have told you the general area where to look. And the first thing to check, change. Just about all JD or recent vintage have a small inline fuel filter on the fuel line not far from the tank. These are ā€œoff the shelf typeā€ that can be bought at just about any decent ag hardware store, or auto part store. Just match the size. Almost always much cheaper than what JD They only cost a few dollars. Personally I would not have taken out. First ā€œline of defenseā€ and much easy and cheap to replace. Keeps the main fuel filter from getting clogged faster. They are much more expensive.

All the fuel tanks I have seen on recent vintage JDs are plastic so there is no ā€œrustā€ particles to worry about. The fuel pick in the tank sits above the bottom. So it would take a lot of contaminates to clog that up. Look in the tank with a flash light check.

The idiot safety switches are almost always ā€œanalogā€. Spring loaded mechanical, off-on. Either something inside broke or one of the wires is loose. If the seat switch is ā€œfunkyā€ cutting in and out so will the engine. It won’t run for a while and just quite. I hate the seat switches, I take them out on any equipment that had them. Generally all you have to do is disconnect the 2 wires and and stick a jumper wire, or a piece cut off a paper clip into the two terminals. Wrap with some electrical tape. Duct tape works fine also.

The reason the tractor ran for a while and then cut off is because the filter had collected a bunch of particles in it. When it sits, not run for a while the particles will fall from the filter paper and settle in the filter sides,.bottom etc. Fuel is pulled through by vacuum once the tractor is running. At idle there is not a lot of fuel being demanded, low vacuum. When put under load the fuel demand is increased significantly. The particles are picked stirred up and collect on the filter element. Get enough of them and the fuel supply is choked off. Sometimes you will hear/feel a tell-tail, the engine’s ā€œsongā€ changes a bit from time to time, slight loss of power at times, etc. It like a tooth ache it will only get worse. When this happens the first thing to check is the filter you had to change. The first line of defense on the fuel line. Cheap and easy to swap out and see if that fixes things. I always keep a back up in my shop, tractor, Z turn, sizes. When adding fuel i like to use the funnels that have a fine mesh filler screen in it.

Pretty sure this tractor uses trans/hydraulic fluid. There is a filter for this also. If you experience a loss of power, going up a hill, pulling heavy equipment that is not engine related. It is usually means this filter needs changing. I have a bigger JD and I never got the ā€œhoursā€ out of this filter that the service manual says.

These things almost always turn out to be something simple and generally inexpensive to fix and be a DIY. In this case the filter cost around $10-15± and a few minutes to swap out. I start with the simple inexpensive stuff and go up the ladder.

The pita is that nothing in any diagram made it apparent. Nothing. It doesn’t exist on paper.

When your tractor dies are you riding on it? Is it moving or just sitting while running? If it is moving, there may be fine debris in your fuel tank that gets in the fuel line and clogs it up…my tractor started doing that when fuel got to a certain level and i was riding on it (bouncing over the ground)…also make sure your cut off switch/pull thing is pushed in good.

I hear ya. Sometimes ā€œupgradesā€ are done and don’t make it to the diagrams until a second edition comes out.

Did you buy this tractor new? If not the previous owner may have installed. Like I said in my comment this is a inexpensive filter, easy to change ā€œfirst line of defenseā€.

When I am trying to locate something, wiring, relay, widget etc. I search using key word ā€œwhere is X located on, brand, year and modelā€. 9 times out 10 there have been many others that have asked the same question. Found the answer and posted somewhere.

There are a couple of JD forums that have pretty much all the answers. Not always the correct answers.

LOL!! We’re the second owners, it had maybe 100 hours on it when we bought it, though I guess he could have? The mechanic went right to it and chunked it. I have to say in all my digging on the ā€˜innernet’ it didn’t surface. Between the tractor and the boat we’ve been driven to drink a bit more than usual this summer :wink:

As I tell my engineering students…There is ā€œtheoryā€ā€¦and then there is Reality.

Theory is what is in the book, manual, or Standard Operating Procedures…

Reality is what is the technicians do out in the plant.

And where there is a problem you have to look at what is in front of you…not what ā€œshould beā€ in front of you…and diagnose from there.

It’s made harder for the owner who doesn’t know to pull the seatbelt harness out of the way and manhandle a wiring harness, too :wink: I’ll take a pic tonight if I remember LOL