I’ve never done this before, and am curious as to what is standard for who has actual physical possession of the horse. Obviously once the contract is signed and deposit is made the horse becomes the buyer’s property and responsibility, but would the seller typically keep the horse or would the buyer take possession?
I know the buyer, but not well, and she lives about an hour away from me.
I wouldn’t give the buyer the horse if they haven’t paid in full, but it can be any arrangement the seller and buyer both agree to.
4 Likes
Sorry, but horse is NOT their property until he is entirely paid for!! Too many thing can go wrong, horse disappears, gets injured, to have them not finish the payments. Certainly no one wants to finish paying for an injured, permanently damaged or dead horse!! Especially true horse being a distance away from you. No one takes care of them like you do, new places almost invite injury with horse being excited during all the changes.
I would never allow horse to leave my property before he is fully paid for. You can write it into the contract what happens should horse get injured (who pays) or dies before payments are finished, cover any details that way. Deposit is forfeit if payment is late or missed. Sorry, but for your own protection, you don’t let horse leave your possession until you have all you money.
You can find lots stories on here about folks who trusted others with a horse, did payments, and how badly things ended. Injured, career ending incidents, dead horses and horses who disappeared along with the people involved. Sad, but selling horses is no place to be naive about business. Get a contract for the payments, drivers license number, cover all the details and ignore sob stories while you retain possession of horse. ESPECIALLY true if horse has a high value, up over a couple thousand dollars! If buyer won’t agree to the contract, keep advertising to find another buyer. Not worth losing the horse over losing this buyer who wants to do payments.
13 Likes
Do not let the horse leave your place until paid in full.
Do not give a bill of sale until paid in full.
Do not trust anyone.
14 Likes
Horse stays with seller until paid in full.
Horse is ensured with seller as the beneficiary until paid in full
Buyer pays board fees and other associated costs (farrier, vet, etc.)
10 Likes
Three times over decades a horse was sold on terms for very good reason and let them take it.
It was a terrible hassle every time, payments were late, etc.
People that need terms to buy a horse are already starting behind.
We are not banks, if someone needs a loan to buy a horse, they need to go get the money from a bank.
We are not in the business of taking those chances on them.
The first one, took two years to get the last payment on a six month payment plan.
The other two, had to get the horse back after just two payments.
Guess I was a slow learner. I hope you don’t also have to learn that lesson.
Have not gone there again, won’t do that ever.
The problem with any such agreement, you really don’t know the other person until you start wondering why the payment is late and then it is too late for you.
5 Likes
This, (*insured), and put it ALL in the contract, including specifying the date the last payment must be received by.
We take payment plans for local buyers only. Horse remains boarded with us until final payment is received. Buyer does technically obtain ownership after first payment and pays all care.
You let the horse leave your property before paid in full, 75%+ chance you see no more monies.
1 Like
Thanks, that is very helpful. I have never bought or sold a horse this way before and I wasn’t certain what the typical protocol was. My instinct was to have the horse stay with me until she is paid for, but I wasn’t sure if that’s what was done or not.
1 Like
Checked the contract I had with the seller of the last horse I purchased and all it mentions about a payment plan is that once the contract is in effect the buyer is committed to complete the contract even if “x” bad things happen to the horse - but that horse although I had to split the payment into a deposit and 2 payments that was only because of banking restrictions and she was paid for within 72 hours after passing the PPE. I’m thinking I should have a more specific contract for this case - are these easily Googled, or is there a specific website?
PS. This is not an expensive horse, and I don’t even have her advertised yet. I would like her to go to this person as it would be an excellent home for her, BUT I am aware of all the horror stories so I do want to protect myself and the horse while being fair to the buyer.
If not expensive, can’t the buyer take out a signature loan, pay you in full and make payments to the bank for the loan, That way no risk to you.
2 Likes
When you sell a horse on time you’re financing a luxury item for the buyer. Are you comfortable being a “finance company?” 'Cause that’s what you are. Depending on where you are you could even find yourself encumbered by the “alphabet soup” that governs financial transactions. You really DON’T want to be there.
If you decide to finance the purchase then your contract should have a some strict rules on payment schedule, penalties for late payment, and what happens if the buyer defaults. As noted by others, ideally the horse should remain on your premises until paid for. Who pays for feed, etc. while you keep possession? Put that in the contract. Who bears the risk of injury, illness, or other loss? Put that in the contract. What happens if the buyer defaults? Put that in the contract. And when the horse is paid for the buyer may remove it at their expense and you will provide them a bill of sale and sign any necessary registration transfer papers but buyer is responsible to pay any registration transfer fees. Put that in the contract, too.
Still, the best advice is a cash sale.
G.
6 Likes
That is something you would have to ask the buyer.
As I said before, this person is known to me, it is a good home for the horse, who is not the most marketable of animals, and I am comfortable doing a payment plan as long as I have a good contract. I am just trying to find out the normal practices for doing so.
Thanks to both EquineLegalSolutions and Guilherme, your posts were very helpful - although this horse is registered CSH and the rules very clearly state the seller is responsible for transferring the papers, so that is what I will do regarding that, once the horse is paid for. Luckily, if I put the contract together, the lawyer my sister works for will check it for me n/c. Now to find a good template to start from…
1 Like
I don’t think there is any standard. It’s all about what works for both parties. I purchased a horse on a payment plan and I think both parties were happy. I put down a substantial deposit and paid the rest over a few months. The horse was very green, inexpensive, and not easy to market. I had the money for the full amount (so I wasn’t “in over my head” but I wanted enough in reserve for a new saddle and some other buffer room). We were connected through a mutual trainer and I was a professional in the area so I couldn’t just disappear with the horse.
I did have 1 late payment when a check got lost and was finally returned in the mail. We switched to Paypal after that. I still have the horse and the seller stays connected with me/the horse via facebook.
If you like the horse and would want it back should anything go wrong, I would recommend a lease to buy situation. Then the horse remains yours, you still have control over it, and it’s easier to take back should anything go wrong. However you hold more liability.
My seller didn’t want the liability, so the horse was “mine” (minus papers) after the deposit, and I was responsible for finishing the payments no matter what.
My recommendations are to take a large enough deposit that you would be ok if you never saw the rest, have a contract that you both understand and mutually agree to, have your exit plan in place (and in writing) should anything go wrong, and keep close tabs on everything.
You will hear many horror stories, but mine worked out really well! I think the seller would agree because she probably got more for the horse with my payment plan than she would have waiting for another buyer. If you message me your email, I will try to track down my agreement. I wrote it after looking at templates. It was never checked by a lawyer, but at least it will give you a starting point.
1 Like
The horse does not leave your possession until paid in full. Period. Stated many times above and pretty obvious the only logical, and legal, choice. The CSHA registration papers also stay in your possession until the horse is paid in full. And you are correct, under the Canadian Animal Pedigree Act the transfer of ownership is the sellers responsibility. In this case you simply fill out the correct forms and send directly the National CSHA office in Ottawa. Takes about 3 weeks for the new owner to receive the new papers. I am sure you already know that though…many don’t it seems.
Good question though…why don’t the new purchasers just obtain a personal bank loan themselves and pay the full price and take the horse. Much easier I would think.
We bought one horse on terms because the seller needed the sale but need it pushed into the following year .
Insurance on the horse with both seller and buyer as joint payable
Buyer responsible for all costs
As Bluey said before if a buyer can’t pay upfront, they’re already behind with a horse. Especially with “not an expensive horse”. Even if not readily marketable, you care about the horse. Don’t saddle the horse with a nice but under-resourced owner. The are a lot of starving, under cared horses owned by “Nice” owners. If you just need to be rid of the animal, drop the price or give it away. The horse pays for all our mistakes and failures.
4 Likes
^^^ agree, if they are scrimping and saving to afford to buy they might not be the best home.
I would never ever ever do payments, ever.
1 Like
Another possible option could be a lease-to-own type deal. Structure the deal as a lease, with regular monthly payments. If the other party fails to make a lease payment, there is no question about ownership. A lease-to-own deal would allow the other party to take possession before the final payment was made. This isn’t a perfect solution–as obviously there are risks with leasing as well.
Sometimes scrimping and saving for the purchase price might be a red flag, other times not. I know many horse owners who are not wealthy and are very careful with their money but take great care of a horse.
3 Likes
Buyers will default on even the most perfect contract. Do you really want to go to court if the buyer defaults? Maybe the buyer can save the monthly payments and if the horse is still for sale when the buyer saves up the purchase price, they can pay cash.
