When did you Spay/Neuter Your Dog

[pezk]

[QUOTE=ynl063w;8301801]
I agree with this; what I don’t agree with is veterinarians or anyone else encouraging later surgery to the average pet owner. That seems to be equal to adding a boost to the overpopulation problem this country already faces.[/QUOTE]

Don’t any of you have leash laws that are enforced? Yes dogs can occasionally get loose but with strict and enforced leash laws, it isn’t common. It’s so effective in Ma. That most shelters import dogs from other parts of the country. I guess that says it all.

[pezk]

[QUOTE=MustangSavvy;8302017]
Neutering had nothing to do with your dogs osteosarcoma. It happens in both neutered and un-altered males. The giant breeds at greatest risk for developing osteosarcoma include Great Danes, Saint Bernards, Great Pyrenees, Newfoundlands, Bernese Mountain Dogs, and Irish Wolfhounds. Large breeds such as Rottweilers, Labradors, Golden Retrievers, Shepherds, Dobermans, Weimaraners, and Boxers are also at an increased risk.

It does not appear that osteosarcoma is preventable. Because of some strong breed correlations, any breed line that has a history of osteosarcoma should be examined closely prior to breeding. Unfortunately, we do not completely understand the cause of osteosarcoma.[/QUOTE]

Also greyhounds esp the ones that have raced. High incidence and death.

[SonnysMom]

I have a lab. My breeder strongly wanted me to wait until 1 year. Since my previous lab who was neutered at 7 months had hip dysplasia we decided to wait longer on Cooper. We made it to about 22 months before he started to become a pest to the spayed female we had.

Interestingly he squats to pee at home and lifts his leg some off the property. The other lab did that too.
The Eskimo Spitz who was neutered befor we got him at 1.5 years old lifts his leg everywhere- home or away. He likes to mark where the foxhound pees and has been known to not wait until she was done- hence peeing on her tail. Bad Eskie.

[chantaltoo]

[QUOTE=ynl063w;8301905]
Did I miss the part of that article where the references are located? If not, that’s an opinion piece, and it doesn’t answer my question about the difference in bone length between a dog that is neutered at 6 months compared to one neutered at 1 year and 2 years.[/QUOTE]

Let me google this for you…

http://applewoodsdogtraining.com/articles/ANNOTATED%20BIBLIOGRAPHY:%20OPTIMAL%20AGE.pdf

CITATION: Salmeri KR, Bloomberg MS, Scruggs SL, Shille V. Gonadectomy in immature dogs: Effects on
skeletal, physical, and behavioral development. J Amer Vet Med Assoc 1991;198(7):1193-1203.
PRIMARY TOPIC: Bone growth, behavior, nutrition
n = 32 dogs / Prospective study
SYNOPSIS: Dogs were spayed or castrated at 7 weeks or 7 months of age, or left intact. Forelimb
radiographs were taken to assess growth plate closure; growth plate closure was delayed in both groups
of spayed or castrated dogs compared to the intact dogs and final length of the forelimb was statistically
longer than in the intact group. All spayed or castrated dogs were judged to be more active than intact
dogs. Body weight did not influence food intake or body weight; these were assessed at 15 months of
age.

CITATION: Duerr FM, Duncan CG, Savicky RS, et al. Risk factors for excessive tibial plateau angle in largebreed
dogs with cranial cruciate ligament disease. J Amer Vet Med Assoc 2007;231(11):1688-1691.
PRIMARY TOPIC: Musculoskeletal abnormalities
n = 116 dogs / Retrospective study
SYNOPSIS: Fifty-eight dogs with excessive angulation of the knee joint and 58 dogs with normal
angulation were compared. All dogs in both groups had anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) injury in one or
both limbs. Dogs with excessive angulation and clinical signs of ACL injury were younger than control
dogs and were more likely to have been spayed or neutered before 6 months of age.

[Bicoastal]

Here is AVMA’s stab at digesting the research.

In a nutshell, it’s confusing.

"We know that spay-neuter increases the incidences of some tumors and some medical conditions. We know that. We know that spay-neuter decreases the incidences of some tumors and some medical conditions. We know that.

Google ‘age to spay neuter study’ and see what you think.

[Sunnyhalfdraft]

My pitbull girl that I brought home when I was in about 6th grade we had her spayed at about a year old, she was pretty healthy till she was 9 but we lost her after someone, we believe our neighbors, threw some poisoned food into our yard and we ended up having to put her down. My husbands gsd is 16 and other than mild arthritis is in pretty good shape, no clue when he was neutered as my hubs didn’t get him till gus was 7, does still lift his leg to pee pretty often though.

[Heinz_57]

Since I have males and they are always closely supervised, I was never in a great hurry. My Border Collie got neutered at a little over a year, when he started marking. Our subsequent dog, a now-3-yo German Shepherd, is still not neutered. Has never marked a day in his life and has never shown an ounce of inclination to wander or exhibit any of the other ‘typical’ intact male behaviors.

And no, I’m not worried he’s going to escape and sire hundreds of GSD-mutt puppies that will end up in shelters. He’s a house dog, lap dog, never lets me out of his sight. When I work outside he prefers to nap on the porch with a stick nearby. My mother finally stopped asking, ‘aren’t you afraid he’s going to get aggressive on you?’ after I had her dog-sit when I went on vacation last winter; after having had him for a week, watching him play with my sister’s five kids aged 8-2, she realized just how much of a giant baby he is. :lol: IMO, most of the misconceptions about dogs, behavior, breeds, and altered/unaltered tend to stem from poor training and management by the “average” dog owner.

[beowulf]

4-6 months.

IMHO dogs don’t live long enough where I really think the age they neuter makes a difference, but they reproduce too quickly. How much longer are you getting if you wait? A week? Six months? Not like you’re getting another 20 years out of it… In a nutshell, waiting has just as many drawbacks as doing it early.

For those that cite all of these benefits from waiting I don’t really see hefty evidence that waiting longer “greatly reduces” risks of cancer associated deaths. I see plenty of studies that suggest that waiting may reduce certain cancers. And then there’s plenty of studies that suggest doing it early may reduce certain cancers and disorders too…

[rothmpp]

That is interesting about the ACL injury correlation. I had a rottie when we lived in a city neighborhood. I got him neutered right at the 6th month mark. I did not want to chance any testosterone driven aggression issues since he was a rottie (we all know how uneducated people feel about certain breeds). He blew his first ACL at about 3.5 yo. The vet cautioned me that with the bigger dogs, his experience at the time was he usually saw them back in 12 - 18 months with the other one blown. We were almost 18 months to the day. The rottie was also pretty tall (probably right at breed max) but not bulky.

I have a Bullmastiff now. He was shown through his AKC title and has some of his grand points. I got into a bit of a thing with his breeder about neutering him. Have yet to get it done, and he just turned 6 this week, so unless he develops a health issue, I likely won’t get it done. BUT - we are a single dog house, he never goes out off-leash, and he was shown enough that he is very mannerly around any dog, male or female, intact or altered.

[Fourbeats]

Usually around six months old here. We live out in the country where there are no leash laws and there is no way to prevent contact with unwanted dogs short of leaving our dogs in the house all the time or building a kennel outside for them.

[asb_own_me]

I want to thank STB and Heinz57 for their well-worded and thoughtful responses, speaking to health risks and behavioral questions, to what can be an extremely hot topic.

One of my own dogs has suffered - and continues to deal with - the effects of too-early S/N. My rescue Doberman, Bogey, was neutered somewhere around the 3-4 month mark (!). He is significantly tallier, leggier and lankier than any of my other three Dobermans, and has suffered repeat cruciate tears. After reading countless papers over the years and speaking with faculty vets at both Iowa State and University of Minnesota, yes, I absolutely 100% attribute his struggles to early neutering.

[animaldoc]

This is a pretty controversial topic - I think more research will come out soon that may clear this up, but for now, we’re not really sure.

(FWIW, my area of practice does not, in any way, include spaying or neutering of small animals. I’ve just been following the new information coming out.)

I have a male puppy, and he turns one soon. He’s a smallish breed and we’re waiting to neuter him. He has virtually no chance of impregnating anything, may be shown (by his breeder, not by me), could be bred if he is shown, and isn’t a jerk (LOL) so there’s really no rush. There’s some thought that waiting until skeletal maturity lets them look more typical for the breed (and less like puppies) and may delay arthritis. There may be no reason to ever neuter a dog like mine, since if he was to develop prostatitis or anything like that, neutering at the time would be the treatment.

Females are a little trickier since the number of heats they go into can increase their cancer risk. If they come from a line with little/no cancer (if you know the parents) then you may be able to wait until skeletal maturity and spay after 1-2 heats. If they don’t or you don’t know, it’s probably best to spay before they come into heat.

Delayed s/n is probably only for dogs that aren’t going to be roaming - shelters/rescues are still right to s/n prior to adoption (or shortly thereafter). Not to imply that owners of shelter/rescue dogs will automatically let them roam, but they are less likely to be dogs of known parentage that would ever be bred for any reason.

Definitely a controversial area, and hard to change your thinking after years of s/n everything ASAP. Interesting to see how this turns out!

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=chantaltoo;8302218]
Let me google this for you…

http://applewoodsdogtraining.com/articles/ANNOTATED%20BIBLIOGRAPHY:%20OPTIMAL%20AGE.pdf

CITATION: Salmeri KR, Bloomberg MS, Scruggs SL, Shille V. Gonadectomy in immature dogs: Effects on
skeletal, physical, and behavioral development. J Amer Vet Med Assoc 1991;198(7):1193-1203.
PRIMARY TOPIC: Bone growth, behavior, nutrition
n = 32 dogs / Prospective study
SYNOPSIS: Dogs were spayed or castrated at 7 weeks or 7 months of age, or left intact. Forelimb
radiographs were taken to assess growth plate closure; growth plate closure was delayed in both groups
of spayed or castrated dogs compared to the intact dogs and final length of the forelimb was statistically
longer than in the intact group. All spayed or castrated dogs were judged to be more active than intact
dogs. Body weight did not influence food intake or body weight; these were assessed at 15 months of
age.

CITATION: Duerr FM, Duncan CG, Savicky RS, et al. Risk factors for excessive tibial plateau angle in largebreed
dogs with cranial cruciate ligament disease. J Amer Vet Med Assoc 2007;231(11):1688-1691.
PRIMARY TOPIC: Musculoskeletal abnormalities
n = 116 dogs / Retrospective study
SYNOPSIS: Fifty-eight dogs with excessive angulation of the knee joint and 58 dogs with normal
angulation were compared. All dogs in both groups had anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) injury in one or
both limbs. Dogs with excessive angulation and clinical signs of ACL injury were younger than control
dogs and were more likely to have been spayed or neutered before 6 months of age.[/QUOTE]

That’s 7 weeks vs. 7 months…which is the age of OP’s dog…about 7 months.

[Appsolute]

All of my pets are from shelters or were rescues - and most were neutered quite young.

Never saw any ill effects - my golden retriever lived to be 17, the retriever mix till 16 - current dog is a very very healthy and active 10 year old (fixed again, very young) - and the latest rescue - he was fixed closer 2.

He was a beast before he got fixed, tried to hump every thing that moved, aggressive / high energy. “Brain surgery” has helped, but it took a lot of training to over come the hormones. He does have more muscle and “drive” than the others… but really, my dogs are pets, not working animals. I don’t need Arnold Schwarzenegger dog.

[steelerino]

Per the shelter I work at its 2mos and older. Being in heat or pregnant is also not an issue we fix them anyway.

[rockymouse]

I’d always spayed/neutered at six months until the most recent Catahoula. Because of the these sorts of threads I’d seen and the subsequent articles I’d read, I figured I’d wait until a year or 18 months before spaying.
We did make it through her first heat cycle and then spayed several weeks later. Boy howdy - I don’t know how you all do it for more than one heat cycle. She was an emotional mess, and there was a physical mess as well, plus worrying about the neighborhood intact Lab getting to her and so forth.
I could see that, for us, keeping an intact male would be much easier than an intact female.

[Rudy]

[QUOTE=Mondo;8301539]
Wow. It sounds as though the pendulum has swung the other way. I remember not long ago hearing of kittens that were spayed/neutered at 12 weeks. (Not kidding!)[/QUOTE]

I’ve done them as young as 7-8 wks. Not ideal but sometimes better when in a shelter situation compared to other alternatives.

Most catteries send kittens home around 15/16 weeks already altered.

[PeteyPie]

6 months.

[Bluey]

The people in our performance dog club, most of them training and competing in agility, were some of the first ones decades ago to jump on the wait bandwagon.

Not that there were that many injuries, but we didn’t see any less injuries in those than the neutered ones.
Neither incontinence, a friend’s not spayed golden had several orthopedic surgeries and was on medication for incontinence and was spayed later.

I think that, if there is a difference, it is extremely small, not worth the chances of pyometra, breast cancer increases with letting puberty come on strong first before spaying, as someone said, the management of a female in heat can be hard on a pet household, plus the chances of unwanted reproduction.

There is one breed specific situation in dalmatians.
Un-neutered male dogs may grow a larger urethra if not neutered.
That is a breed known for urinary crystals, where that may be a concern.
At least that is what at one time dalmatian breeders and their vets were pursuing, don’t know if it is still determined it is so.

In horses, gelding before puberty, that generally happens around 18/20 months, about the time knees and hocks growth plates close, has been known to let horses grow that extra 1/2" in those six months that process is delayed thru gelding.
Not in all colts, but enough to be “statistically significant”.
Does that alter their genetically predisposition to a certain skeletal length proportions, is that harmful in any way, or does the body adjust seamlessly to it?

Does in the dog?
Some studies want to say yes, the changes are not always easy to adjust to, here are statistics saying more early neutered dogs have injuries.
Maybe it should be, not sure yet, lets do more studies first before deciding why the injuries?

I think it is not wise to make a blanket determination against spaying before puberty for all dogs and their owners, as some insist is “best”.

[chism]

[QUOTE=SonnysMom;8302189]

The Eskimo Spitz who was neutered befor we got him at 1.5 years old lifts his leg everywhere- home or away. He likes to mark where the foxhound pees and has been known to not wait until she was done- hence peeing on her tail. Bad Eskie.[/QUOTE]

We adopted a male GSD about a month ago, he’s 4. I noticed while we were looking at him that he marked everything in his run frequently, but I attributed it to the stress of being in a shelter environment with so many dogs. He marked in my house the first day I left him home alone when I went to work, now he just marks everywhere outside that the other dogs pee, even if they’re not done yet. When touching the dogs, I stay far away from the back end/tail now. LOL I attributed the marking to be more to a dominance thing than a “when you were neutered” thing, but some are saying that makes a difference?