When even a six-figure salary isn't enough to compete

[Lord_Helpus]

The $30k was not per week; it was for “the circuit” which was a total of 5 shows that comprised the circuit, — plus the Fairgrounds “pre show” (so 6 shows total).

After the Fairgrounds, we went to Palm Beach (which had 2 hunter rings and several jumper rings — and I parked my camper between hunter ring 1 and a canal). Then to Ocala (where I got my van and horse trailer sideways to oncoming traffic when trying to turn around because I had missed the entrance to the show grounds. Then to Jacksonville (which I remember because the sprinklers went off during Debbie Connor’s jump off round and she was not given a do-over). Then back to Tampa (for 2 weeks – I remember it being very dusty for the second week) and which ended with the Invitational.
Of course, doing 6 shows for $30,000 seems to be incredibly cheap now. But in 1980 is was my entire year’s budget.

[Midge]

@Lord_Helpus

The $30k was not per week; it was for “the circuit” which was a total of 5 shows that comprised the circuit, — plus the Fairgrounds “pre show” (so 6 shows total).

After the Fairgrounds, we went to Palm Beach (which had 2 hunter rings and several jumper rings — and I parked my camper between hunter ring 1 and a canal). Then to Ocala (where I got my van and horse trailer sideways to oncoming traffic when trying to turn around because I had missed the entrance to the show grounds. Then to Jacksonville (which I remember because the sprinklers went off during Debbie Connor’s jump off round and she was not given a do-over). Then back to Tampa (for 2 weeks – I remember it being very dusty for the second week) and which ended with the Invitational.
Of course, doing 6 shows for $30,000 seems to be incredibly cheap now. But in 1980 is was my entire year’s budget.

I didn’t think it was per week. I thought 30k was astronomical for 1980. I took horses to Florida in '85 and '86 and it was nowhere close to those prices, even for the customers who were not economizing.

[Cowgirl]

Dressage person here, although my youngster is with a h/j colt starter. In 2015, I was working with an international expert who told me the time was coming where the average doctor/lawyer, etc., earning $200k - 300k + per year would not be able to afford the sport. My response was to buy my own small farm, buy some youngsters to raise. My 3 year old is in training with some great young horse h/j trainers at $1,700 per month which is about double than the average cowboy (but better quality start, IMO, and I’m doing it as long as he needs it, which is longer than the 90 day minimum start program). I sent the young horse to a big H/J show for schooling (about 1,500 miles away) for two weeks with the trainers. That cost me about $3,200 (but would have been much more if my horse was entered in classes). I need a new truck and trailer (think up to $150k for this and a 8 month to 1 year wait) in order to take my horses out of state to show. On top of all this, I also work about 60+ hours a week to afford this stuff and am currently only riding on the weekends because young horse is 1 hour away. At some point, one needs to take stock and weigh the pros/cons. I don’t think I could afford a winter in Wellington (even though I make in the mid six figures), due to the cost for me to send the horse in full training and fly out on the weekends, while hiring farm sitters. I am guessing, roughly that a 3 month winter season would cost me at least $40k (maybe $60k) and I wouldn’t get that much enjoyment out of it compared to the stress it would cause.

[phoenixrises]

+1 for bone conduction. They’re the only thing I ride in.

My barn unfortunately has zero cell or wifi and while my work has gone to 2 days wfh permanently they are not at all flexible with working hours. FINTECH seems to be fighting this harder than most, not sure why.

AS for OP, I don’t have a lot of ideas for you, both my spouse and I make 6 figures (but very low) however in a lower COL area for houses (Philly area is catching up though my house has gone up 100k in less than 2 years) board has gone up every year since I moved here. My board bill now almost equals my mortgage (2 horses though, my daughter has one as well). I honestly have zero ideas, just know there are a lot of us out there.

[fordtraktor]

In the mid-late 90s a winter at HITS Ocala was a baseline $30k, much more if showing rated divisions and not the Baby Greens. Jumpers even more expensive if you don’t win anything back. And that was the “budget” option—trainer and I (working student) lived in LQ in a KOA, not a hotel, and went to Ocala, not WEF because that was significantly more expensive. I can believe $30k being easily possible if with a program that didn’t closely monitor costs.

[redandwhite]

I feel this post.
I showed to the 1.20m in high school and then had a paint through university that i struggled to board and did a handful of C shows on while I plugged along at uni.

I am graduated now, and have been for some time. I make decent money- I’m a software developer. It’s absolutely painful though- I can either it seems be at a “nice” barn and not show or a “simple” barn and show.

And when I say show I mean 6 shows in the summer with a seventh if I get into some sort of final. Problem is that is from June to September. The rest of the time I want to be trained, have homework, lesson, clinic, flat in a large clean ring… everything the big barns have. I like being in a program. Right now, I am at a cheap barn with a new-ish trainer. She’s a sweetheart but does a few things that really irk me badly horse-care wise. I recently showed with them and so many red flags poured out. I am trying to get myself back into one of the show barns lickity split just to watch out for my horse, but then I’ll have basically nothing left to show with. If the show barn can LET me not show the rest of the season and wait until next year, I guess I’ll be okish- I’ll try to pack 500$/mo away. but that plus the board will be astronomical.

Let’s see here:
-she’s barefoot. $100 for her feet to be done (rounding up- prob more like 65 and tax)
-vet plan has already been paid for the year. I pay 600 for a plan and then pay extras like boosters and floating. She’s done for the year horray- I actually had to pay for a whole plan for the guy I just sold, too, because I wasn’t expecting to sell him.
-i just finished buying her some gear she NEEDED but I have all my old tack, too. My boots look like I’ve used them for 50 years. My saddle pads aren’t the in fashion ones, I don’t have matchy matchy sets. Everything I own is old and i find that embarrassing sometimes. I think I’ve finally gotten into a position where the “important” things aren’t terrible(old saddle but french, micklem breast plate and bridle, new helmet and show attire(i got fat)) I offer the kids to borrow my gear when they forget theirs and they’re always so snotty about it im thinking ill just stop offering
-she’s the same size as my old mare so I do have some winter and rain blankets and fly sheets and shields for her. again, old old old.
-lessons- I pay 200-250 for a lesson a week right now at the small barn, and the big barn i’m trying to charm my way into is 325-406.25/mo for two lessons a week, which is actually a lot cheaper per lesson, but like costco you’re getting a good deal because you’re buying in bulk. I’m worried they’ll even have two lessons a week I can join where I have my 9-5 job.
-insurance/show licenses etc I paid with my tax return at the beginning of the spring- what a pain in the ass but necessary
-gas to get to the barn!!! I just sold my SUV this week. it was costing me… get this… 750/month in gas. with my new car it’ll be more like 400/mo in gas. even less if i go with the big barn because it’s closer to my house let’s say 300. smaller barn is in the middle of nowhere.
-board. 910 at the big barn, 500 at the small one. however there’re massive differences in care.

So, taxes, calcs, blah blah, BEFORE the 500 i’d have to put aside per month for showing next year, per month: cheap barn: 1263, expensive barn: 1952.

That’s 46% of my take-home pay (30% for cheap barn). I am fucking insane to even consider it. It does budget out mostly because I own my car, have cheap insurance, and am slowly paying off my student loan and have excellent rent with my bf’s family. If I’m in a program, and I want to go to the barn, I’m more likely to actually ride, and my horse will be safer.

Probably to show next year if I did go to that barn I’d have to hope for tax returns, selling old tack, hopefully getting some coaching or riding jobs, getting a better paid job…

But it’s obvious I’m sinking a lot into this hobby. I adore it, I want to ride even more, I want to do homework, I want to have my ass kicked, I want to chat with the other riders and go to shows with a team where the horses are happy and the actual showing is fun. I have this ridiculous horse! I want to run with the big boys. I see other riders with horses around my age (30’s) who don’t “seem” to struggle, not that it’s always apparent. How tf are they doing it?

The logical part of my brain says put her in field board for 250/mo and pay back my student loan. but im not paying interest on it thanks to some very amazing people in my life helping with that. and I want to be excited for something/anything. and sometimes this is the only thing.

money or horses money or horses… it’s nerve wracking to be close to the wire, or be on a tight budget, whathaveyou.

it always seems so worth it though- can’t tell you how many times ive “quit” horses and I’m always back.

[paw]

@redandwhite

I see other riders with horses around my age (30’s) who don’t “seem” to struggle, not that it’s always apparent. How tf are they doing it?

Maybe they’re not. Maybe they’re maxing out their credit cards, or going without something you find essential, or working it off at the barn/braiding somehow. Maybe they have an income-producing hobby (knitting, writing, jewelry making). Maybe there’s a trust fund, or a rich uncle. Or maybe they’re 1%ers somehow.

Don’t get stuck in the trap of comparing yourself to others. There’s always going to be someone with more money/resources than you have. Find a way to enjoy what you’ve got, and don’t sweat the rest. It’s possible to board at a “show” barn and not show all the time - you can always travel with the team and be there for support and take candid photographs.

Find a trainer who has the same goals as you do (which can be difficult) - who will be happy to see you progress at home, and only showing when you need a challenge.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I agree with much of your post, but I honestly don’t know of anyone who supports frequent horse showing with a side hustle like writing, horse show photography, or other creative endeavors. Maybe someone with a good, steady income elsewhere can support some local showing and offset some horse expenses, but that’s different.

Usually it’s:

1. Family money, invested well (most common).
2. Very high income, due to two spouses working lucrative jobs, plus investing some of that money (but results in less time at the barn and more reliance on trainer). Never the case for someone just out of school.
3. (More common than you might think) Some people are much, much more comfortable with a higher level of debt and a lower level of savings than you might be.

[fledermaus]

I see two quite separate questions you will need to answer before you can get out of the fix you are in.

First: exactly WHAT about riding is keeping you sane? Is it competing? Is it being at an expensive show barn? Keeping a horse and riding it is well within your budget. It’s the way you are doing it that isn’t sustainable. It isn’t your income that is the issue, it is your expenses.That’s not going to be solved by making your coffee at home and selling jewelry online.

Second: is there any way to get out of the high COI place you are living in? Maybe not as radical as moving your father-in-law to a rural area. Some compromise.

I know this is probably too great an adjustment for you, but for example, I keep my horse at home and ride her on trails. I have a small arena and my dressage teacher comes out once a week and gives me a lesson. Except for the occasional day trip out to ride with friends, that’s about it. No show barn, no shows, no nuthin. But it also keeps me sane.

[clanter]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

Usually it’s:

1. Family money, invested well (most common).
2. Very high income, due to two spouses working lucrative jobs, plus investing some of that money (but results in less time at the barn and more reliance on trainer). Never the case for someone just out of school.
3. (More common than you might think) Some people are much, much more comfortable with a higher level of debt and a lower level of savings than you might be.

well there is fourth of discovering oil and natural gas under the horses’ pasture

[mika0116]

This is a really eloquent and realistic response.

@redandwhite I can give some personal and various barn mate AA situations to exemplify these differences.

I have lived in HCOL (SoCal) and IMO LCOL Greater Seattle area - think 1 hr north of city, not Bellevue. I consider Northwestern WA mostly LCOL due to the no state income tax and genuinely outside King County - much lower home prices, etc.

I work remotely in tech and prior to that was in ibanking / private equity. I grew up with variable income and as an adult have a serious financial and statistical education via university and 10 years of work in those fields.

Anyway…

The majority (NOT ALL) of AA’s I know in SoCal and WA who show and own and full training board have some support from another source.

More often than not parents have either purchased horse entirely or a larger portion of the animal’s purchase price as a gift. Friends of mine talk openly about money and the gift amount ranges from 15k-35k gifting for the horse specifically.
I had one acquaintance have parents give 80k (to be paid back to parents over time) for a downpayment on housing because she wanted to buy a horse at the same time as closing on housing. I also know someone who took a loan out against their 401k (yikes af!) for a horse’s purchase price. All of these folks pay the month to month and assumedly insurance, most vet and shoeing bills themselves out of their own income / savings etc. I do think a couple definitely live paycheck to paycheck despite 6 figure salaries.

Now $100k is no longer really that high of income when it comes to having horses as a deep hobby…
Much easier to do outside Seattle in WA where board and training is 1/2 or less of what it costs in SoCal. Full training, care & board outside Seattle is $2k/mo … in SoCal you’re looking at $3.5k+ approaching $4k/mo.

Pre pandemic a single barnmate who made over $250k a year still lived pretty damn tightly and required parental assistance for large purchases, but owned horse, full training board in HCOL, owned condo/apt in HCOL, showed 4x a year at A shows, and maybe 1 international trip a year (but that stopped for horse showing).

the people I know who pays for horse things ALL themselves are:

1. a partner in a law firm focused on financial law. they also have historically purchased YOUNG horses (less expensive) and have taken long breaks from competition mostly due to focusing on their career. Was single now coupled but partner does not combine finances.
2. a professor and academic that saved for literally 20 years to purchase first horse at 40 after she had a baby. does not show, lessons 3x a week and LOVES her animals. Married but partner does not contribute to horse expenses.
3. a government consultant who owns the same horses she purchased as young babies (unbroke or green broke) in her teens. Her main show horse is late teens now, still has childhood pony, and she just purchased a FOAL to bring up herself with a trainer. Keeps horses at home when she can (moves a lot) and does not put horses in training, but lessons. Married but partner does not contribute to horse expenses besides owning a truck to pull trailer as daily driver.

I do not expect nor allow my partner to take on any expenses related to horses. My income is solidly middle 6 figures and our household income is typical of 2 big tech workers in their 30s… I’ll leave it at that - you can look at levels.fyi for the tier just under FAANG if you want to get a ballpark.

And I still CRINGE at how expensive purchasing, maintaining, and caring for healthy, safe horses can be in HCOL areas where my partner and I need to be for various reasons (work, family, etc.). My late father died and left some life insurance money (no inheritance, he was in major debt when he died) which went towards a house downpayment and part of my higher education post undergrad. I also save 40% of my income for housing purchases, retirement, etc. I cannot fathom how people afford children…

When folks talk about investments “paying for expenses” I hope we all realize that dividends and residuals off investments that are large enough to pay for horses and showing are MASSIVE. Like in the millions, not hundreds of thousands. The average dividend yield on S&P 500 index companies that pay a dividend historically fluctuates somewhere between 2% and 5% – so that means to have $30,000 to spend you must have $1m in dividend yielding investments (not total net worth like 401k, etc) literally investments that can be made liquid relatively quickly. Assuming 3% annual dividend yield.

So yeah - those “people with investment income” are already multi-millionaires!

[canterplease]

Jumping back in as the original poster, still blown away by the amount of activity on this thread—it’s so great to see that I’m not alone and that these conversations are happening. Horses are really unsustainably expensive when living in high COL areas. But for me, it’s still worth it.

I have been managing to compete this summer in spite of all of the costs, and am super thankful to this forum because I ended up seeking a new job, landing that job (with a really awesome, reputable, high-paying company) and am now in a position where I can make ends meet and have a little leftover for savings even with 2-3 AA-rated away shows this summer.

For those who are saying a side hustle like writing can’t provide enough income…that’s exactly how I’m doing it. In addition to a full-time job that now pays closer to $160K/year, I’m also continuing to do 15 hours/week of content writing and marketing consulting for some tech startups (charging $95/hr) and that monthly retainer fee (about $4000 after taxes) pays my board and most of my show expenses. Full-time job pays the rest.

I’m saving money on away shows by entering classes with prize money and we’ve been lucky enough to get a ribbon in most, so I can scrape some $ off my entries. I do my own grooming and braid my mare’s tail…still working on perfecting the mane technique, so I still pay a pro to do her mane for now. I no longer pay full training board but instead opt for lessons and training rides ad hoc and have friends pick up extra rides when I can’t make it to the barn.

I work a lot, but with really great freelance clients who are flexible on when I get deliverables submitted as well as a relaxed manager who understands the importance of work/life balance in my full-time job, I’m really lucky to have a situation that is now sustainable.

Could I be putting all this horse $ aside for a home? Yes. And eventually, I’ll probably lease my mare out for a year or two in order to start working on that. But for right now, putting the money towards horses is what I want to do and it really does pay off immensely in terms of my mental health.

[mika0116]

LOVE the freelance work - I have started to go down this path myself in addition to the big tech job. Thank you for the inspiration to keep going down this route!

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Okay, I guess I’m lame and I don’t have a side hustle, in addition to all my regular gigs, that can pull in that much income per hour on a regular basis. If that works for you, though, fantastic.

Off to read the pack it all in thread for now…

[Natalie]

I love the idea of doing freelance work! I’ve considered delving into this myself but not sure where to start. I work in the nonprofit sector and am lucky to be paid well for the industry–I’m in the lowest 6 figures. I’m in a relatively high COL area. I’m not at a show barn, but decent care at a facility with amenities isn’t cheap around here either, and I have two horses, so my monthly board bill equals full-service board for one horse at a show barn, ha. Right now I make it work by bartering work at the barn, which helps a lot. But the freelancing gig sounds much more lucrative, and I have excellent copywriting/content creation skills, with 15 years in the industry. Thanks for the inspiration.

[Rel6]

Another option too, especially now, is they relocated to a lower COL. In my career, I know a lot of people who had the option of going remote and kept their big city salary while living somewhere much less expensive. That helps a lot.

Last year, I had to make a decision about whether to keep my career in NYC and making $$$$ or take a big salary hit to go live someplace I would be happier (I didn’t want to be remote). I was turning 30 and it would really be a deciding factor in my career trajectory. I did the latter, but after adjusting for COL I’m coming out ahead. I make roughly 1/3 of what I would have made if I stayed in NYC, but my yearly board bill is about 6% of my salary now that I’m Upstate. If I had stayed in NYC, even with the higher salary, I was still looking at at a board bill that was 11% of my salary. Having grown up in Westchester, I also knew I wouldn’t be able to get cheap miles on a greenie, and that any trip off-property would be expensive.

Yes, there are some out there who genuinely have no concerns about money. Yet I think a lot of us have just had to prioritize what we want out of our equestrian experience. I love showing and competing. But this isn’t the year I feel comfortable spending the money or PTO to go to shows for weeks. I’ve still taken my horse to some type of off-property field-trip or competition for the past 7 weekends, just smaller, less formal schooling comps. I’ve gotten almost two months of competing for less than what one week at a Saratoga/Vermont/HITs would cost me. This year, that made more sense for me.

I’m sure there are people who have the same thoughts wondering how I’m able to swing always taking my guy somewhere, but behind the scenes I would love to be at a bigger, week-long show this week with my barn-mates and just couldn’t justify the cost this year.

[AmmyHJAlter]

Alter for obvious reasons.

Almost every adult ammy rider that I know who does rated shows has family help. You wouldn’t know if you weren’t good friends with them, but a lot of them have parents who pay for/or partially pay for their horses.

My SO and I’s take home income is about $200k a year in a relatively low COL area. Our mortgage is cheap ($1200) because we bought our house at a good time. We have no debt or student loans. We only have one car payment ($300). I do about 7-8 rated shows/yr and board at a full-service program. We have breathing room in our budget, but it’s close to my max. Any more shows would really be pushing it.

Yes, I realize our income is very high compared to the majority of Americans, and even so I still can’t “keep up” with those that show a lot/ compete for year end awards etc. I give the numbers just to say that IME anyone who shows rated shows frequently has MONEY, there is no getting around it. When our take home was more like $150k I struggled to do 5 shows a year.

[Darkwave]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

Usually it’s:

1. Family money, invested well (most common).
2. Very high income, due to two spouses working lucrative jobs, plus investing some of that money (but results in less time at the barn and more reliance on trainer). Never the case for someone just out of school.
3. (More common than you might think) Some people are much, much more comfortable with a higher level of debt and a lower level of savings than you might be.

Yup. I put myself in the category of could afford to do it, but not willing to accept that level of financial risk/vulnerability. I can’t both have horses/show regularly AND save to the extent I want to.

[mika0116]

to each their own - freelance work is a big undertaking and often isn’t SUPER lucrative! But there is a possibility you have more lucrative talents than you think!

I’ve a friend who has a big tech job - works for LinkedIn. She has a jewelry business making clay earrings etc. Easily brings in 4k of profit per month. She does it while watching tv / while waiting for laundry to finish etc. I’ve seen sketch designs and make order lists for materials while waiting for flights at the airport on biz trips!

I personally rather passive income (back to my investments convo) so I’m hustling extra mostly for multiple properties before 40 and I’ll stop if the hourly income isn’t making sense. I have a lot of community members in my social and professional circles that are very into FI/RE. Financial Freedom, Retire Early.

Most of those folks made $$$$ in cities and relocated to LCOL areas in the US / abroad.

Without horses, retirement for me could be as young as 40s (without kids and probably without week+ international trips etc), but what’s the fun in that!?! My FI/RE friends think I am nuts to continue to plan to work more than I have to “just for an animal” or “just for a kid”. People definitely have different preference for lifestyle and money habits… I know someone who spends as much as we do on a horses if not more for boats they only touch 6 or so times a year!

[mika0116]

Yep yep - this!

Now in HCOL with a much higher mortgage rate (soo jealous) that same lifestyle is only possible on 400k - 500k household income.