When is lying down a bad sign?

[Lieselotte]

Just back from the barn where one boarder’s retired OTTB (27-year-old mare) was acting strange… The owner will be out later tonight and will obviously make her own decision re. vet, etc., but because no one else at the barn could answer my question, I thought I ask here: When is lying down a bad sign for a horse, i.e. when is it the beginning of the end?

The horse in question has had some health issues for a while, most notably a broken and reset jaw that prevents her from eating normally, or so I’m being told. Being an older TB, she already had a hard time keeping weight on but is looking especially thin now.

This is what we noticed today: She was lying down in the mud in her paddock when I got there (but no one noticed it before me so we didn’t know how long it had been) and kept falling over onto her side, slowly, kind of like an old man nodding off and catching himself and then straightening out again. At some point she stopped fighting it and just fell all the way over onto her side and just stayed like that for at least 15 minutes. She was also wheezing a bit.

Then the BM made her get up and she stood in place for about an hour until she awkwardly got down again and repeated the same behavior. We let her be for a while, called the owner, assured her that her horse did not behave colicky but strangely, and then got the horse back up. This time she took a few steps to her water trough and drank and then had a handful of grain. She was still standing there when I left.

I don’t want to be panicky (and I have no experience with horses that may be dying, it’s just my intuition speaking) but this sure looked like a horse ready to give up and give in. No energy, no life, pure fatigue… What has your experience been with older horses that may be ready to leave us?

[Fharoah]

words of wisdom

What do you do when your chronically lame horse that is recovering from surgery with a good prognoses for soundness gets lamer. Your surgeon says it is not “unexpected” and sees no reason to see the horse early. We are head bobbing lame at the walk intermittently and me worrying sick. This is a fluctuating lameness up and down I can’t really take it. This horse is my best friend in the world.

[ShowMeTheGlory]

That doesn’t sound good to me.
Laying down usually is not a big deal unless they are thrashing and/or they cannot get back up.

[Ghazzu]

When?
In this case, from the sound of it.

[KSAQHA]

Well, after losing a 16-yr old mare over the past weekend, that’s how it began for her. Started lying done Friday evening, would lay flat, sit back up, stand up…rinse and repeat. No rolling, thrashing, kicking at belly or other ‘classic’ signs of colic. After two local vet visits between Fri. night and Sat. morning, took her to an equine specialist group Sat. afternoon. After a battery of diagnostic tests, bloodwork, tubing, electrolytes, and a drugs galore, they still could not determine the problem. Brought her back home late Sat. night…had to put her down Sun. morning.

In other words, BIG red flag…at least IME.

[LauraKY]

All horses don’t show the same colic symptoms. We’ve had one that will lie down, get up, over and over and he hung along the fence line following me as I worked on the other side. But then, he’s the smart one that always comes for help when he’s in trouble. Another wouldn’t drink, was a little off feed and walked stiffly (impaction colic in progress, and of course the not drinking really helped it along). Neither one had the “usual” colic symptoms.

I think after a day of what you’ve described I’d be calling a vet. Has anyone taken a temp, heart rate, respiration, listened for gut sounds? Checked the gums for capillary refill time? Checked for dehydration? That should be done as soon as you notice a horse is acting oddly (and the BO or BM should see that it gets done).

[yellowbritches]

Yes, this is definitely NOT good.

Lying down is a bad sign to me when it is out of the norm of the horse’s routine. Example: In February I found one of our mares lying down out in her paddock in the snow. This was a warning sign to me because A) she NEVER lays down outside and B) she was lying down in a good foot of snow, which was even MORE unusual. She had a major impaction and spent well over a week at the hospital.

This is why it is SOOOOO important that a horse’s caregiver knows its routine and what’s normal for that horse. Something as subtle as “taking a nap” can be a big, big warning sign, as it was in our mare’s case. This is why I love running a SMALL facility…I know every horse better than their owners know them.

[FineAlready]

Your description is disturbing, and, yes, this sounds very much out of the ordinary. I’m also very concerned that the BO informed the owner that the horse was not acting colicky. Sounds colicky or very ill to me.

Agree with others that vital signs should have been taken, most notably temperature. And a vet should have been called. Hopefully, the owner called the vet when she arrived. If I was the owner and I came to find my horse in the condition you described after having been told that the horse was not acting colicky, I’d be pretty angry. Sounds like the owner may not have been given the necessary details to make an educated decision on whether the vet needed to be called ASAP. Yikes.

As for laying down - I agree that it is more about what is “normal” for the horse. I’ve never met a horse with a “normal” that included laying down in the manner you described, and then going back down when forced to get up. Just have never seen it happen.

[twofatponies]

It really depends on what’s normal for the horse. Because this caught your eye and seemed “strange”, then it probably is a sign of some distress or illness. Your gut is probably good on this one.

[MoonWitch]

[QUOTE=yellowbritches;4805792]
Yes, this is definitely NOT good.

This is why it is SOOOOO important that a horse’s caregiver knows its routine and what’s normal for that horse. Something as subtle as “taking a nap” can be a big, big warning sign, as it was in our mare’s case. This is why I love running a SMALL facility…I know every horse better than their owners know them.[/QUOTE]

Amen! We have a 30yo mare that will lay down this time of year to roll and then can’t get back up - due to severe arthritis. The owner is absent so I will only call if I think “this is it” as I did Monday. I know the horses in my care, as individuals and can tell when one is “off their mark”. In her case, her eyes were telling me not to give up on her just yet and she finally gave one more push and up she came!

I have another mare that just LOVES to nap - flat out - in the field, but that’s just her, and I monitor, but know that it’s normal for her.

Final thought is it never hurts to be concerned and err on the side of being overprotective.

[merrygoround]

Watching the mare do that would make me think she had some sort of abdominal discomfort, and it would have been a good idea to have someone knowledgeable in normal gut sounds (like a vet), have a listen.

[Lieselotte]

Update

Checked with the BM this morning and she said horse was up and eating her grain. The reason why she didn’t think the horse was colicky yesterday was that the mare had just pooped normally and was very quiet, not distressed or pawing, not those typical signs. She also ate and drank a little. It was just the fatigue and the odd behavior lying down. We all assumed it’s her old age since she’s 27 and has been losing weight for a while…
Haven’t heard what the owner thought or did but the vet did not come out. I agree with some posters, if it was my horse, I wouldn’t guess and just call the vet anyway since this behavior was out of the ordinary for this mare. Even just to have confirmed that this may be the beginning of the end and make appropriate plans. Will see what’s happening this afternoon.

[merrygoround]

Simply having a horse pass manure and not paw does not mean there was no abdominal discomfort. Unfortunately too many people have a limited understanding of pain/ discomfort symptoms.

[murieics]

I read somewhere once (and for the life of me, I can’t remember where) that if a horse shakes off when he stands back up from laying down, he is generally ok. If not, he generally isn’t feeling 100%.

This seemed goofy to me at the time (and still kinda does), but after thinking back on horses I’ve seen roll, and horses I’ve seen colic, it seems like it holds true.

Either way, I now watch my horse to make sure that he shakes off after he finishes rolling around on the ground. :D:lol: Of course, I also always watch for other symptoms of stomach pain as well.

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;4806586]
Simply having a horse pass manure and not paw does not mean there was no abdominal discomfort. Unfortunately too many people have a limited understanding of pain/ discomfort symptoms.[/QUOTE]

This. NOT ALL HORSES HAVE TYPICAL COLIC SYMPTOMS! You must know the horse. If it’s acting oddly, chances are something is wrong. You can act in a reasonable amount of time and potentially head something really serious off or wait.

We usually give it an hour, check vitals. Then we call the vet. I can honestly say that I haven’t made a wrong call yet. Trust your gut! If you think something is wrong, it probably is.

And, I would no longer have much confidence in the BO.

[goeslikestink]

altho your bo told you its not colicky it IS

and i would seriously have no faith in your barn owner

when horses are ill - and gut pain they d get colic
early signs of colic are looking at there gut, then perhaps start to kick upwards into the belly regions with there hind feet, as if a fly was on them to kick away the pain then sometimes they do both

as it progress they may lay down but not roll and after a few minutes get back up again then after a few mintues which can be anything from 5to 15mins or so lay down again
this is spasmatic colic as the pain comes off and on so when its off they up when its on they lay down

then if left alone can become more serious and the horse starts to roll
and with this can become a twisted gut - and DEATH

COLIC IS SERIOUS AND A VET NEEDS TO BE CALLED ASAP AS IN NOW

horses when they are older often have other problems due to there age
and when they are failing as shes 27 and its a good innings as some dont even make it past 17 so already in bonus years

anyways when horses get older once they start going down hill for what ever reason then it happens quite fast at times and this also can be a sign
looking colicky as the horse hasnt got enough energy to stand up meaning his body is failing but his mind isnt in the same time frame so he tells himself t stand only his body cant keep up

as the mare is hard kepper and under weight due to her yaw and eating is a problem for her i think the mare has had enough

your bo needs to get hold of the owner now and get a vet up for this mare as i personally think her time is here and iwould rathe she went with dignity if she was mine than put her through another day of hardship

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=KSAQHA;4805741]
Well, after losing a 16-yr old mare over the past weekend, that’s how it began for her. Started lying done Friday evening, would lay flat, sit back up, stand up…rinse and repeat. No rolling, thrashing, kicking at belly or other ‘classic’ signs of colic. After two local vet visits between Fri. night and Sat. morning, took her to an equine specialist group Sat. afternoon. After a battery of diagnostic tests, bloodwork, tubing, electrolytes, and a drugs galore, they still could not determine the problem. Brought her back home late Sat. night…had to put her down Sun. morning.

In other words, BIG red flag…at least IME.[/QUOTE]

and this mare acting the same

is the bo new and who feeds the horses the bo
what is the pasture like is it weedy
could be a just that they 2 old girls and there times up
but it could be how they fed - and what they are eating
but ones is skinny was the other mare that died skinny aswell

[appychik]

Kinda what everyone else said. You really need to know your horse. Just noticing the other horse laying down tells you that something is off.

Gringo coliced a couple weeks ago. He ate his grain just fine but when I turned him back out to graze and munch his hay, he grabbed one mouthful and then proceeded to lay down. Then got up and rinsed and repeated on the other side (btw, this horse never rolls all the way over, so that in itself wasn’t a shocker) but the fact that kept doing it was what I found odd.

Sure enough it was colic, but not an impaction (thank GOD). Just some severe cramps (ie ate bad Chinese food-type cramps). He recovered just fine with a good muscle relaxer and some banamine, administered by the vet.

Anyways, I’d talk with the owner of the horse and see if she’s at least talked to the vet. Something definitely sounds wrong with her horse…

[Lieselotte]

Another Update

Well, there’s only so much you can tell another horse owner…
She was out all afternoon, grooming and walking around with her mare who seemed better. But when owner told me she found her horse lying down again, I couldn’t help but tell her to just get the vet… But she had already asked another boarder (experienced) to take her mare’s vital signs and there was no elevated temperature, P & R fine, no sweating… She also said her horse was rolling around in the sandy round pen and got up and down easily today. (Should have asked her if the horse shook off the sand but I just learned that bit of information by reading one of your posts!)
I think everyone is just settling on signs of old age now.

goeslikestink: The horse is not turned out, just lives in her stall and large (dirt) paddock and gets fed some sort of senior feed and alfalfa.

I felt it wasn’t my place to keep pushing for the vet beyond what I had already said but I’m certainly learning a lot from this experience. I’m a fairly new horse owner myself but have been around horses long enough to trust my instincts and they are yelling for a professional to come out! Even though I trust most of the other boarders and value their opinion, incl. BO and BM (BO’s daughter), none of them are veterinarians so there’s too much guessing for my taste and too little action. I bet some of you have been in situations like this before. It’s so hard to keep quiet…

[EqTrainer]

Recumbent is my vets “come now” word. I hope nothing unpleasant comes from this mare wanting to be down more than is customary and usual for her.