When should leather break?

[froglander]

How much pressure/stress should leather need to break in a bad situation?

My horse got spooked yesterday in the middle of putting his bridle on. Doubled and stitched harness leather headstall, harness leather slobber straps, and nylon rope mecate. He took off running around the arena, dragging the bridle (I was in the process of putting it on and I had slipped the reins over his head) and the reins ended up looped around one hind pastern which freaked the poor guy out more. I kept wishing something on the headstall would break before he did but it all held

(some rope burn on a hind pastern but other than that, and being a bit shaken, he seems okay)

Where is the line between being sturdy and breaking in an emergency?

[CHT]

Western tack in general seems more made to stay in one piece than english. Maybe that is why western reins are split? A former client had all the metal hardware on their leather halters split so that the rings would break as they learned the hard way the leather would not. I don’t think that tack, other than break-away halters are actually made to break.

[beau159]

I used breakaway halters when I haul my horses because I tie them in the trailer. Last summer, I made the stupid mistake of tying Red long to the trailer so he could reach down and eat some grass. It had been a really long day and we were making a “pit stop” at my parents and I wanted to be nice to him.

He got his lead rope hooked around the trailer door hinge while his head was on the ground, and it startled him when he went to put his head up. The halter did not break. … But my panic safety snap did, thank goodness! (I custom make my own lead ropes with panic snaps.)

I would have thought my halter would have broken before the panic snap did, since it was a breakaway halter. But even those probably don’t break in all situations.

[QUOTE=CHT;8078144]
Maybe that is why western reins are split? [/QUOTE]

Western reins are split because that is functional for the use.

If you need to get off your horse and open a gate into a pasture to check the cows, it’s easy to “lead” the horse with the split reins.

You also can drop one rein on the ground (or both) to ground tie the horse.

Or if you fall off while on the trail, you may still be able to keep a hold of one of the reins so the horse doesn’t run home without you.

Etc.

[PeanutButterPony]

[QUOTE=froglander;8078048]
How much pressure/stress should leather need to break in a bad situation?

My horse got spooked yesterday in the middle of putting his bridle on. Doubled and stitched harness leather headstall, harness leather slobber straps, and nylon rope mecate. He took off running around the arena, dragging the bridle (I was in the process of putting it on and I had slipped the reins over his head) and the reins ended up looped around one hind pastern which freaked the poor guy out more. I kept wishing something on the headstall would break before he did but it all held

(some rope burn on a hind pastern but other than that, and being a bit shaken, he seems okay)

Where is the line between being sturdy and breaking in an emergency?[/QUOTE]

All of my western bridles have water ties to attach the bridle to the bit. I will not own one that has nothing but hardware. Back when I used split reins, they all had water ties as well- the bridle and/or reins has to have a fuse that will give in a wreck.

http://www.sstack.com/Billy-Royal-Work-Headstalls/Billy-Royal-Heavy-Hermann-Oak-Browband-Bridle/?utm_source=bizrate_com&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=WEB01010PS8&scpid=6&scid=scsho2455564

Here’s a neat set of loop reins with water ties…
http://www.sstack.com/Western_Training_Reins/Quiet-Control-Rein/

and split reins

http://www.sstack.com/Western_Reins_Training/Raleigh-Heavyweight-Reins-5-8-x8-/

those big heavy slobber straps defeat the purpose of slobber straps. they should be the weak point that is replaceable over time as the end of the reins get worn out…they should be the fuse that breaks, either by design or by coupling them with water ties.

[PeanutButterPony]

[QUOTE=froglander;8078048]
How much pressure/stress should leather need to break in a bad situation?

My horse got spooked yesterday in the middle of putting his bridle on. Doubled and stitched harness leather headstall, harness leather slobber straps, and nylon rope mecate. He took off running around the arena, dragging the bridle (I was in the process of putting it on and I had slipped the reins over his head) and the reins ended up looped around one hind pastern which freaked the poor guy out more. I kept wishing something on the headstall would break before he did but it all held

(some rope burn on a hind pastern but other than that, and being a bit shaken, he seems okay)

Where is the line between being sturdy and breaking in an emergency?[/QUOTE]

All of my western bridles have water ties to attach the bridle to the bit. I will not own one that has nothing but hardware. Back when I used split reins, they all had water ties as well- the bridle and/or reins has to have a fuse that will give in a wreck.

http://www.sstack.com/Billy-Royal-Work-Headstalls/Billy-Royal-Heavy-Hermann-Oak-Browband-Bridle/?utm_source=bizrate_com&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=WEB01010PS8&scpid=6&scid=scsho2455564

Here’s a neat set of loop reins with water ties…
http://www.sstack.com/Western_Training_Reins/Quiet-Control-Rein/

[PeanutButterPony]

http://www.cowboyway.com/What/Slobber_Straps.htm

you can see in the second photo those huge and heavy slobber straps- yuck, IMO…but the bit attaches to the bridle via water ties- that connection would break, but only if the horse is hung and running backwards or he steps on the rein with a forefoot- the fuse wouldn’t help in the OPs wreck

[DairyQueen2049]

Rope burn. Use burn cream a tefleX. Pad and vet wrap to treat

[goodhors]

Guess I am a contrary type, don’t want my leather breaking. I have only seen breaking tack to make situations worse, not better. I SURE don’t want the tie string breaking when I have to pull reins or have a headstall fall off with the broken leather string!!

I no longer use closed reins on a Western horse, they are all split to fall down if dropped or drag if horse should get loose after dumping his rider. I HOPE he steps on them to jerk him to a halt, MAYBE stop and STAND to be caught up again by the rider. And I will use split reins on a horse wearing an English saddle out Trail Riding, for the same reasons.

I spent 4 HOURS chasing a horse with sewed reins in the National Forest, before we FINALLY caught her. I was thinking “How to tell Husband I lost his new horse on our first Trail Ride, 200 miles away from home?” Even having a buddy horse, I really did not think we were going to catch her with no dragging reins to slow her down. She didn’t CARE about her worried horse friend she was leaving behind.

Traditional style Mecate (nylon is not actually traditional, certainly pretty much unbreakable) is nice, but sure not likely to stop a horse if he gets away from you. I use really long reins for my beginner horses, split of course so they can fall down if horse acts badly or is surprised. Getting a bit of a jerk while starting to get silly, just MIGHT distract horse long enough to QUIT freaking out, so he can be caught or persuaded to stop to be caught up.

As DQ said, burn cream, keep the skin moistened for best healing. Burned skin dries and splits to let in infection. Might need being creamed a couple times a day to keep it moist.

[PeanutButterPony]

Guess I am a contrary type, don’t want my leather breaking. I have only seen breaking tack to make situations worse, not better. I SURE don’t want the tie string breaking when I have to pull reins or have a headstall fall off with the broken leather string!!

In 30+ years of horses and such headgear, I’ve never had a bridle or rein just come off or break- these are water ties, not zucchini noodles. The force of a horse getting a hoof hung in it would break it, as it should.

Any savvy horse can learn to tilt their head and run off dragging their split reins should they desire to leave the county, no matter how those reins are attached. Never met a horse that stopped stone still once they stepped on a rein- they step/startle/move/step/startle/move- at some point I’d rather it break so they stop bashing themselves in the mouth.

[goodhors]

In 30+ years of horses and such headgear, I’ve never had a bridle or rein just come off or break- these are water ties, not zucchini noodles. The force of a horse getting a hoof hung in it would break it, as it should.

Any savvy horse can learn to tilt their head and run off dragging their split reins should they desire to leave the county, no matter how those reins are attached. Never met a horse that stopped stone still once they stepped on a rein- they step/startle/move/step/startle/move- at some point I’d rather it break so they stop bashing themselves in the mouth.[/QUOTE]

The original reason string ties were used for reins and headstalls, is because they are easy to fix out in the countryside. Cheap repairs done anyplace, for the cowboy rider. Just slice off a piece of saddle string, rethread and back to work.

I sure don’t know many folks who regularly take those strings out to check for wear, replace or condition the leather, so it is strong over a long time. And yeah, I have seen the reins or headstall strings break DURING A RIDE, not even with much pull, because the strings were weak and died. Sometimes it ended OK, but others had people get hurt. Not going to happen to me. Same thing can happen with buckled reins, if people don’t check tack and keep it conditioned and flexible for a possible stress situation.

Sure a horse can learn to run with head sideways. You hope no one falls off that often to teach such a thing to the horse. The step, jerk action, usually surprises him out of the fear, person has a CHANCE of getting near to catch horse. And while he might get a few bruises, he will recover. Kind of self-fixing of his desire to misbehave when asked to Whoa, wait, by person on the ground. For sure is better than him running out into a road, getting hit and killing some poor person just driving along!

None of the old working Cowboys I EVER talked with, learned from, wanted leather tack that would break in any situation. If you can’t depend on your gear, you will get BADLY hurt. People got hurt when gear gave way, cinch strap failed, rein broke, string ties let go, so you had no control of the animal or firm seating to direct things with. Most of them used the reins with a slip loop of leather, so leather was DOUBLE THICK at the bit, not any strings there at all to fail you while out working.

[froglander]

Bit was attached to bridle with the leather tie type attachment and those didn’t break either.

I guess that is what I am asking, where is that point where leather is sturdy enough to hold up to everyday use, but in a panic situation when a lot of pressure is in play, it breaks.

[goodhors]

[QUOTE=froglander;8083769]
Bit was attached to bridle with the leather tie type attachment and those didn’t break either.

I guess that is what I am asking, where is that point where leather is sturdy enough to hold up to everyday use, but in a panic situation when a lot of pressure is in play, it breaks.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, you can’t “plan in” a breaking point on leather. This is because the weakened leather tack will break when not expected, get you hurt. You were not in a situation where you wanted horse to “get free” that time! But he did, now is learning bad habits.

We do a lot of Driving Horse stuff, just did a huge discussion about breaking leather or harness, cutting them free in a downed horse situation. It was about 99% on the side of NO BREAK tack. Reason is horse feels ANY bit of give in a situation and he will fight hard to get loose. Horse down, restrained by tack, tends to give up and wait to be helped.

Could be the Driving training, learning the patience and acceptance of so much restriction, but they seem to usually WAIT for help if there is not give in the tack. Seen it quite a few times, various breeds, situations of excitement. Waiting until ASKED to move, horse is less likely to get truly hurt or hurt YOU helping him, doesn’t fight while down or waiting. Seldom any need to actually CUT harness either, you can unbuckle to release parts, then ask horse to get up and be lead QUIETLY away.

John Lyons was among the first BN Trainer to WORK at teaching “give to pressure” not explode. Used the Give in many steps of his training methods, probably saved a lot of horses damage, when trained that way.

We spend a LOT of time with our horses teaching them to “give to pressure” and making sure they TOTALLY understand how to get away from that sudden pressure that might surprise them. Starts before they ever even get tied, as young babies. They never learn that fighting will let them “win” by breaking tack. That will just escalate, he WILL fight harder next time.

OP, not to be harsh, but maybe you need to back up, work with this horse on giving to pressure for a while. If startled his first response is NOT to throw head and race backwards, get away, then get tangled, while you are hoping tack breaks. And I think since his first experience didn’t go so well, he will PROBABLY do it again, while worried about being hurt the next time around. So best be prepared for when it happens, even if he has no outside “reason” to act silly. He will likely set himself off with the worry, not need a reason.

[Pocket_Pony]

The only experience I’ve had with leather breaking was when we leased a horse for Mr. PoPo. This horse was an experienced eventer and didn’t tie. We weren’t told that ahead of time and found out the hard way when he broke a halter and a set of crossties, he sat back so hard. Sent that horse back because that was a dangerous issue and made him not trustworthy for Mr. PoPo’s level of experience.

[PeanutButterPony]

Goodhors I’m truly not trying to be pissy we just disagree on some points.

If you don’t care for your gear it can fail you- true…so that also means that someone’s double thick dry rotted bridle will break before my water ties.

I agree that driving gear cannot have fuses/fail points- I entirely agree. Same goes for hobbles, girths, cinches and their attachments.

Another option, and one I use since I’m mostly a trail rider, is small brass snaps. They’ll break under significant (Horse) duress, not under normal (human) duress. and again- only on normal bridles and reins, not driving bridle reins.

You can train for perfection but instinct is still a very powerful force. If a bee flies up a horse’s nose, all the John Lyons on the planet will 100% override a reaction.

In closing I entirely agree that the OP has a potential concern on her hands, and that while I am bridling a horse, it better be God herself that spooked him if his attention was diverted from the task at hand

[froglander]

Yeah, in “normal” situations, my gelding is good at giving to pressure and I have worked at being able to pick up each foot with a leadrope and stuff like that. This was just a case where I was in the middle of swapping bridles and a huge gust of wind sent him over the edge, he was already a bit “up” because of the weather, usually he is pretty chill. I bridled him again after this all happened and he was fine with that and I would have ridden a little if he hadn’t been so sore.

I think one thing this has made me realize is I want a good pocketknife to keep on me at all times!