When slaughter is banned;

[bjrudq]

sigh

[QUOTE=Equibrit;1863819]
At the risk of starting a fist fight - I would be more inclined to support responsible and humane laws for the transport and slaughter of animals. What the carcass is eventually used for is immaterial. In my view, an outright ban is pretty irresponsible.[/QUOTE]

well, you are way behind the times because both anti and pro horse lovers have worked hard on this for many, many years.

the more recent laws are vague and probably unenforceable; and the slaughterhouses and their suppliers don’t care.

i would be for humane slaughter if it is possible but the slaughterhouses and suppliers have demonstrated repeatedly that it is not.

therefore, a ban.

[county]

If its impossable then should all slaughter be banned?

[philosoraptor]

@ProzacPuppy;1867386

I’m thinking most of the horses granted freedom due to the anti-slaughter bill will move to Houston and demand that FEMA give them housing.

LMAO :lol:

And they’ll get to live in trailer parks… full of Featherlite, Brenderup, and Sundowner trailers. <envisions a whole neighborhood of horse trailers lined up, pink flamingos in the yard, an old carriage up on blocks with no wheels>

[bjrudq]

nope i was referencing horses only. i thought that was what this thread was about-horse slaughter on a horse forum. i am unaware of any present pending legislation to ban the slughter of cows, pigs, or chickens.

others have pointed out the difference between cattle and horse slaughter, transport of of same, method of killing, etc. and this point has been argued to death repeatedly.

my point is that i was on the fence about this issue and have watched it develop over the years, have read the regs, and i am convinced that the regs aren’t/can’t be followed/enforced and all the yapping about improving conditions has gotten nowhere. the industry itself doesn’t care, and it has plenty of horse lovers who are willing apologists, which means they nedd spend none of their profits on p.r., improving conditions, or making demands on their suppliers in regard to shipping conditions. (and they are laughing at all of you, and thnking you for their profits.)

i’m not thrilled with commercial cattle slaughter either(although it apparently has improved in some respects) but my present concern is horses.

[county]

My concern is animals I don’t place one species over another. And since its not against the rules here to talk about other animals I do.

[ProzacPuppy]

County- Stupid Question here- What does NCHA stand for? I did know that William Shatner was heavily into horses and certainly has the money. Just clueless about what type/sport sales this is.

MayS- I can see it now. Probably will also have problems alot of “non-slaughter refugees” lining up and trying to get free trailers.

[bjrudq]

sure

i guess it is just fine to talk about other animals here-i don’t have a problem with that.

i understand where you are coming from as a cattleman who respects his animals. but i do see horses as different from cows, although i am a grandaughter and great grandaughter and for some generations back descendant of dairy farmers.

i wish for humane treatment for all animals but my focus and effort now is on horses.

[county]

NCHA stands for National Cutting Horse association. In the stock horse world as a rule Cutting horses are very high selling compared to the rest.

[luvmytbs]

[INDENT]

@county;1867304

So if thats the way to look at it why not coime out and say so rather then there jobs that change hands all the time? If you don’t care about peoples jobs that doesn’t mean they don’t. And illegal aliens do americans jobs. Who hires them?

The Ford Motor Company just announced that it is contemplating on shutting down two plants in the Louisville, KY area, leaving thousands of workers without a job.
And you expect government to worry about 200 slaughterhouse workers?

[/INDENT]

[county]

I don’t see where I said I expect anything. But do you think those slaughter house workers are concerned any less then the ones at Ford?

[Plumcreek]

Some people will never take responsibility - they will neglect horses that need care or take their problems to the monthly sale. So what happens to the horses with severe problems at the local sale (previously the killer sale), when they bring a “no bid”? Are 90,000 horses per year going to be absorbed by the people who previously couldn’t afford them?

I have never posted on a slaughter thread before. I think that all the time, money, and emotions could have been better spent finding ways to transport and new technology to slaughter in a manner acceptable to the caring horsemen (the crazies will never find anything acceptable), then finding a way to instill enough penalties to guarantee it would be implemented.

Same money, time - better outcome for the horses.

[ProzacPuppy]

Thanks county. I didn’t realize that cutting horses sold for those prices but then again I originally was shocked at the number of h/j selling for $200,000+. Previous experience had only been with the TB bloodstock sales where six and seven figures seems to occur more frequently than you’d think (Thank you Sheik Mohammed).

It is sad thought that within Texas we can have horses selling for $300,000 at the same time many horses are bringing less than .25 a pound. And that is not meant as a cut to ANYONE- just sad.

I myself own an OTTB that was going to auction (and “was deranged”) and a mid five figure Holsteiner. Personal opinion is that the “not right mentally” and physically a “little banged up” OTTB is worth 1000 times the WB. WB has talent and breeding. OTTB has heart and integrity. Priceless. Very very sad that so many horses like him end up throw aways worth pennies on the pound.

While I am a vegan and I don’t believe in killing another living thing (except fire ants and my boss) I agree that there needs to be a method of dealing with unwanted horses in a humane method. Vets have said that the captive bolt is humane if done properly but horses by nature and conformation are not good candidates for this method. Any short duration tranq that could be feed administered? I still think there needs to be some sort of “equine humane society” cull and promote adoption but as my husband keeps pointing out- you are talking about close to 100,000,000 lbs of unwanted flesh to dispose of if you do not slaughter for overseas markets.

I also discussed incinerating carcasses (as they do for smaller pets) but he pointed out that the temp to completely dispose of something as big as a horse would be unfeasible.

He’s a pain in the a** to argue with.

[bjrudq]

gaaahhh!

“I think that all the time, money, and emotions could have been better spent finding ways to transport and new technology to slaughter in a manner acceptable to the caring horsemen”

it’s been DONE! so much effort has already gone into this to NO avail. if you’d been reading these threads and reading articles about this you’d know that people on both sides of this issue have already expended quite a bit of effort in this direction. for YEARS.

the slaughter industry does NOT care.

[summerhorse]

[QUOTE=bjrudq;1867710]
“I think that all the time, money, and emotions could have been better spent finding ways to transport and new technology to slaughter in a manner acceptable to the caring horsemen”

it’s been DONE! so much effort has already gone into this to NO avail. if you’d been reading these threads and reading articles about this you’d know that people on both sides of this issue have already expended quite a bit of effort in this direction. for YEARS.

the slaughter industry does NOT care.[/QUOTE]

That’s the problem. If it interferes with the bottom line, forget about it.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=ProzacPuppy;1867702]
I also discussed incinerating carcasses (as they do for smaller pets) but he pointed out that the temp to completely dispose of something as big as a horse would be unfeasible.[/QUOTE]

You can get your horse cremated, so I don’t think the temp is “unfeasible”. Probably a similar temp to that of other animals, just for a longer duration?
And of course a larger facility to handle the larger bodies.

[ProzacPuppy]

I think his point is that economically incinerating the bodies is not “feasible” compared to slaughtering and selling the flesh vs the cost of running an incinerator at the temp required to completely dispose of that amount of horse flesh is just not a good economic choice esp on top of the cost of having a vet euthanize 90,000 horses through lethal injection.

In a pure cost economics it is much better to slaughter for Euro markets than to euthanize and incinerate.

And he did give me numbers Fahrenheit between what it would take to reduce dogs vs horses to ash. And they also incinerate multiple dogs at a time (unless you request private cremation). Also reducing bones to ash takes higher temps for longer periods for the larger bones of the equines supposedly.

As I said, pain in the a** to argue with. He may not always be right but he is a lobbyist by profession and as a group they can pull numbers and statistics out of ----- and make it all seem sane and logical.

I never said it would be economically positive to do it the humane way. But he is correct that “money makes the world go around”.

[county]

The bottom line is what every business goes on. No profit no business, its just simple economics no differant with cattle, hogs, any meat we eat. They don’t care? Many don’t neither does the oil industry but we sure like their products.

[LarkspurCO]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;1867749]
You can get your horse cremated, so I don’t think the temp is “unfeasible”. Probably a similar temp to that of other animals, just for a longer duration?
And of course a larger facility to handle the larger bodies.[/QUOTE]
Actually, most places cut up the horse into smaller parts to fit into the crematorium. I’ve heard of one large enough to fit a whole horse.

Cost for horse crematin is in the neighborhood of $800-$1000.

What about rendering the bodies? Is that still an option? Around here, they go in a landfill.

[Sannois]

Asked this on the other thread…

When now does 503 go before the Senate for a Vote??

[Parysa]

I don’t think they’ve decided yet, Sannois.