Yes I’ve said many times I do not think theres any real amount of unwanmted horses and still don’t. Take away the meat buyer and I think theres going to be a number of them. Around here the rescues don’t buy many horses any more. There full up and winter is very close.
LarkspurCO - The quote is not necessarily true. As I keep saying maybe it is just here but I know by talking to sellers that local auctions several of these horses are not getting Feed, Hay, Hoof Care, Vet Care, etc. They are living in a pasture somewhere and are only brought in if there is a trail ride, or other social type event where they are basically ridden into the ground then turned back out not to be given another thought until the next event.
I can’t believe that this area is the only area that this occurs. But maybe it is because we have available pasture year round due to the warmer weather and horses don’t need supplemental feed???
You see very few private buyers at auctions because there is no easy way to evaluate the horse ahead of time, and people are afraid of getting a horse that is lame or not ridable.
But there are PLENTY of horses that are healthy and plenty others that can be re-habbed in short order. Just look at all the horses placed by CBER. People do want them.
Without slaughter, I would not be surprised to see a new type of horse sale or auction evolve, wherein the buyer has an opportunity to carefully evaluate the horse ahead of time.
And as I said before, the opportunistic horse dealer will buy the the healthy ones, or get them free, clean them up and sell them privately.
I think what Bopper is saying is very true around the country. If you look at the AHC stats on numbers of horses in a state and their average worth you’ll see that many states with large amounts of cheap feeds have large numbers of horses that are valued low. Mn. for instance is #9 for number of horses but 46th for average value. I was at a sale last week where about 250 weanlings sold one buyer bought 23 that lives in Va. shes bought the last few years and has bought from me off the farm. I asked how she can come out hauling them that far and she said because in this part of the vcountry we can raise and sell them so cheap she can resale for 5 to 10 times as much back east. I’ve had a guy from Mass. buy from me that does the same.
How people operate a ag business in one part of the country is very differant then how people operate a hobby in another. Your not going to convince people they should look at their business like someone the other side of the country looks at their hobby.
No time to evaluate a horse at a sale? All depends on the sale I go to some where the horse is there days ahead of time, you have 48 hours to return a horse for any reason you want, if a mare is sold as in foal you have 72 hours to have it checked. If shes not bred you bring it back for a 100% refund. Theres lots of sales like that already.
Bopper, horse abuse is a distinct problem for which slaughter is not the grand solution.
Furthermore, many horses that would otherwise be cared for fall into the slaughter system and suffer horrendous abuse. Is it okay to let this continue?
[QUOTE=county;1877040]
No time to evaluate a horse at a sale? All depends on the sale I go to some where the horse is there days ahead of time, you have 48 hours to return a horse for any reason you want, if a mare is sold as in foal you have 72 hours to have it checked. If shes not bred you bring it back for a 100% refund. Theres lots of sales like that already.[/QUOTE]
I’m not talking about those sales.
I don’t think it is although its rare I see horrendous abuse in the slaughter system for any species but it does happen on occasion. Personally I’m going to keep eating meat but its still wrong.
Well, maybe you should get out more and look around at the feedlots. Of five that were pulled Monday, one is dead, another is in kidney failure, two others near death from starvation. The fifth one merely has a respiratory infection.
The feedlot here takes great care of their livestock nice and fat thats where the money is in the meat business. But what does a feedlot have to do with it. Theres animal abusers all around the country. Theres people that abuse children but should we say no one has any more kids to prevent it?
I am not either for or against slaughter. I can see both sides of the perspective. My point in posting is that I don’t think that some people on this board understand that we are not talking about people that feed their horses daily, worm them every few weeks, have hooves trimmed every 6 weeks, etc. bringing their horses to the auction that end up going to slaughter. There are numerous horses owned by people that sell them just to be rid of them because they are tired of them. They just want them gone and they are not willing to try to sell them privately. Once again it has been said the some people think there is not a significant population of unwanted otherwise servicable horse and I disagree. Why are so many horses not bid on at all at the larger horse sales? The most I have ever seen a horse go for was about $1500. This was for a 6-8 year old registered competition QH being sold due to a divorce. It was a NICE horse. But I have seen plenty of broke to ride middle aged grade type not be bid on at all or only by killers.
But maybe it will bring about positive change. Maybe auction barns will turn into a place where you can try horses out, with vets available to do a quick PPE, with a 24 hour return guarantee - and then prices will have to go up to cover the extra expenses but at least for my area I just don’t see that happening in the near future or quite honestly, ever.
[QUOTE=Bopper;1877019]
LarkspurCO - The quote is not necessarily true. As I keep saying maybe it is just here but I know by talking to sellers that local auctions several of these horses are not getting Feed, Hay, Hoof Care, Vet Care, etc. They are living in a pasture somewhere and are only brought in if there is a trail ride, or other social type event where they are basically ridden into the ground then turned back out not to be given another thought until the next event.
I can’t believe that this area is the only area that this occurs. But maybe it is because we have available pasture year round due to the warmer weather and horses don’t need supplemental feed???[/QUOTE]
You are describing animal abuse and all 50 states have laws pertaining to handling horse abuse. Slaughter houses are not the regulating entity to ‘easing’ abuse in any fashion or form.
If you look at the peak and lean yrs of slaughter (1989 340+K horses to a lean yr 2003 42K horses and again to this year which is estimated to be 120K horses) AND if slaughterhouses in some way can be a factor in ‘unwanted horses or neglect’ than I would say that in 1989 there should be a considerable low measure of horse in dire conditions, 2003 we should have been overwhelmed with neglect cases and this year moderate. Now add that every single year the horse population has INCREASED and the conitnually declining numbers of slaughtered horses compounded the situation from the low # yrs (2001, 2002, 2003) we should be seeing piles of horse bones scattered across the country from starved dead and neglected horses.
It just isn’t the case.
Are there unwanted horses and neglected horses dumped at auction ABSOLUTELY. I’ve been to enough auctions to know. Yes some of the scum of horse owners who try to pass their old, neglected, abused, sorryful horses at auction- hoping for a kill buyer to be present- so they can make a few bucks to recoup whatever $$ they can (and justifying it as a ‘viable euthanasia’ option thanks to AQHA and AAEP). Well take away their kill buyers- guess what? Now they actually have to think of another option to get rid of that horse- they neglected it before hand and yes probably neglect it afterwards. Does this mean we have to endorse an industry over a small percentage of animal abusers? If we are to endorse the industry we are also supporting all that goes along with it- inconsistant and virtually ill enforced transportation laws, horse THEFT (which declined over 30% in CA after a ban was imposed), UNSCROUPLOUS horse dealers who mislead owners into think they giving/leasing/selling to a good home and turn around and dump them for quick profit, and more and more???
Or MORE PROBABLE since the rescues aren’t spending money trying to fetch horses out of the kill pens- they can concentrate on taking the truly needy cases with their miniscul rescue budgets, rehab and rehome.
ALSO like to point out that there may or may not be a drop in horse price. Any price drop would affect the lower quality animals. That would certainly send panic into the ‘casual’ horse breeder because now they actually have to think a little bit more about what kind of breeding program they run because you’ve taken away their safety net of $$ recovery should they be unable to sell stock because it is of lessor quality that the buyer’s demand.
I agree with SuperSTB figures and I think its also a good example of why breeding has nothing to do with how many horses are slaughtered. When we butchered 350,000 a year there were 6,000,000 horses in the country. When we butcherd less then 100,000 last year there were 9,000,000. If how many horses there are dictaes how many are butchered why haven’t we slaughtered more then ever now?
[QUOTE=county;1877086]
TBut what does a feedlot have to do with it. [/QUOTE]
As I recall, we were discussing abuse within the slaughter industry. Feedlots are part of this industry. Horses ARE abused and neglected in feedlots. It is highly relevant to the discussion.
Many unwanted horses will be taken in by people who are not actually looking for a horse. I saw a thread just yesterday about three old skinny horses getting dumped on a farm. The girl’s grandma fell in love and insisted on keeping them. I seriously doubt she would be going to an auction looking for three horses, but they came her way and she took them in.
This happens all the time. I was at a boarding stable and a strange mare just showed up in the pasture one day. Nobody ever claimed her. My friend who was not looking to buy or acquire a horse decided to keep her.
I was not looking to adopt a feedlot horse, but the opportunity arose and I took her.
People on these forums offer to take in horses every day.
So you feel in order to sdtop abuse anything that has to do with that type of abuse should be outlawed? Outlaw eating meat and animal abuse stops, outlaw having children and child abuse stops etc.
Never fly IMO.
That’s just absurd.
I thought so when you said it unless I miss your meaning totally?
Let me make myself perfectly clear.
Pro-slaughter people justify slaughter because it is a solution to abuse. “What about all of the horses that will be abused? Slaughter is saving them all from their misery?” Or some bullshite.
My response was that horses are being abused in the slaughter system. Therefore, the notion that slaughter is a solution to abuse is ludicrous.
I never imagined banning slaughter would be the solution to abuse. In fact, I said just awhile ago that horse abuse is a distinct and separate issue.
The only salient point I’ve heard you make is that you don’t want the laws crammed down your throat. Fine then. Bully for you.
Well then bully for you also, to stupid to converse without the snide remarks? I don’t think slaughter has anything to do with abuse and never have.
But tell me do you agree with everything anti slaughter people say? Do you think all pro slaughter people think the same about everything?
