When slaughter is banned;

[seeyalou]

[QUOTE=MayS;1864170]
Because they are oblivious to the crap that may be in the meat. Just as americans are oblivious to the BGH, antibiotic residue, infectious agents, and other contaminants in their beef or chickens (especially those factory farmed). We just want the Big Mac… we don’t care what’s in it. We don’t think about the real cost to the environement/animal/ourselves to enjoy the Big Mac. If we don’t reflect on our burgers, why should French ponder what’s in their “delicacy”?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, what s/he said. Although I do wonder how people who chow down on beef can look their horse in the eye. It may just be me, though.

[county]

I never said slaughter didn’t have differant equipment for differant species. But why did we fught to chance the process for say cattle and not ban it? Seems we aren’t keeping things the same for one as the other. I’m betting if cows could talk they don’t get real happy about eating them either. And just because some buy meat from a humane place doesn’t mean inhumane practices do not exist. I butcher and raise all my own meat and slaughter it swiftly and very effenciently but that hardly means I don’t think a whole lot of cattle and hogs don’t suffer abuse in the slaughter system.

[Jumphigh83]

I really wish someone would address why the AQHA, the paint horse association and the veterinary national association (sorry I cant remember what the “real” name is…) support slaughter if it is so contraidicated? I too worry about what will happen to all the unwanted animals. There is a thread now to save some TB/Perchs at some auction for slaughter right now…how much extra money is really out there to adopt and or support all these cast off horses?? Everyday there will be another “please give money or foster this or that crippled old horse” thread. My oldsters are humanely destroyed after a super life so dont flame me for “not caring”. I just dont see how the ban on slaughter will improve the lives of tens of thousands of horses/ponies that are dumped when someone doesnt want them anymore!

[Ridge_Runner]

@county;1865378

I never said slaughter didn’t have differant equipment for differant species. But why did we fught to chance the process for say cattle and not ban it? Seems we aren’t keeping things the same for one as the other. .

The slaughter houses themselves instituted the changes because it was in their best interests to make the process as humane as possible for the cattle…and to keep animal welfare people off their backs. We also eat cattle in America…lots of them…it’s big business and calm unstressed unbruised cattle make better tasting and more expensive steaks and the houses know that.

We don’t eat horses here and that is only one reason of many why people…not just horse people… object to their inhumane slaughter and the abusive treatment that leads up to it. I have seen the horse slaughterhouses do NOTHING to improve their processes and make it more humane for horses…despite much pressure from different horse groups for quite some time now. They had their chance…and by doing nothing, we are now to the point of making a law just to put them out of business and send them packing back to Europe where they came from.

[RoseBud143]

[QUOTE=county;1864528]
Your certainly entitled to your opinion but then so am I.[/QUOTE]

well put and i respect that…

PARGON, it seems in your post that your exp. with slaughter is on a humane level and that great, bt many now that horse slaughter isnt always humane, i mentioned the traveling conditions, b/c with slughter POSS. being banned so wil the traveling conditions to get to the plants. in all hopes. Im glad you had a good exp with pplants bt in my own opinion,and i maa y get flammed for this, cows and horses or like comparing apples and oranges, Horses are our companions and friends and partners, they are not produced for food, so just to toss them aside when they served thier purpose, thats wrong, and im sure people would or could feel the same way about cows, IF they took up such a big place in our hearts has horses do.

And i still belive tthat with the banning of slaughter that a way to place these horses will arise out of allthis, even if local humane societies add horses to the list of dogs and cats or a new branch comes out of this for just horses. WE have made it work for our small animal companions wy not the large to.

[county]

Unfortuantly they have no reason to change. The buyers of the meat don’t care, they have followed the laws here according to our gov. and the USDA. They have seen how court cases have gone in the state of Tx. with the states Right to Free Trade Laws and I really don’t think they would lose if the prsent bill should ever get passed in the form it is now. There not going to change anything thats going to cost money unless they have a really good reason to do so. And it has to be a reason they think not us or anyone else.

[summerhorse]

[QUOTE=Jumphigh83;1865386]
I really wish someone would address why the AQHA, the paint horse association and the veterinary national association (sorry I cant remember what the “real” name is…) support slaughter if it is so contraidicated? I too worry about what will happen to all the unwanted animals. There is a thread now to save some TB/Perchs at some auction for slaughter right now…how much extra money is really out there to adopt and or support all these cast off horses?? Everyday there will be another “please give money or foster this or that crippled old horse” thread. My oldsters are humanely destroyed after a super life so dont flame me for “not caring”. I just dont see how the ban on slaughter will improve the lives of tens of thousands of horses/ponies that are dumped when someone doesnt want them anymore![/QUOTE]

They support it because many of their members are the prime suppliers of horses, many of their factions get kickbacks from the slaughterhouses, many of the vets are employed by the USDA and the cattleman.

If there is no slaughter unadoptable horses will have to be put down. But it will be humanely (or someone should go to jail) and without the frightening and dangerous auction, feedlots and shipping to the plants experiences. Other horses will be absorbed by the horse world. If we can absorb a few hundred thousand of them over a short time we can absorb 100,000 of them (and remember a lot of these SHOULD have been put down on the farm). About 900,000 horses in this country die every year of various causes (natural or caused by euthanasia for whatever reason). Even if HALF the horses in the slaughter pipeline were deemed unuseable for mental or physical health reasons 50,000 more is but a drop in the bucket.

Rescues may have to face putting down more unadoptable (or too expensive to maintain) horses but that is part of rescue too. (the bad part but unavoidable) It’s better than neglect, abuse or the slaughter process.

And all those people pumping out 100s of horses a year or looking for an easy out for those race or riding or breeding animals they’ve used up will have to A) stop breeding so much and B) put some effort into finding homes for them or putting them down.

[county]

So tell me exactly whats going to make these people kill their horse? Whats going to force them to do what should be done as you put it. Whats going to make people keep rescueing slaughter bound horses if theres no slaughter? I’ve had some tell me they will be so happy when slaughter is banned so they can quit rescue.

Are they liars?

[Sannois]

I agree Paragon…

[QUOTE=Paragon;1865120]
In the interest of ‘full disclosure’, here is a link to a video contained on an animal welfare site. The group is against horse slaughter. This video was taken in a horse slaughter house.

It is graphic. It shows three or four horses being killed, and the next step in a slaughter house. But that said, I believe it shows a very efficient and remarkably humane process. The horses pictured suffer for a very short time - a matter of seconds - and that’s the end of their awareness. I can see why the AVMA would support this method of killing. It is the same process that cattle go through.

Again, this video is graphic, and I think it’s a little sad (I’m not a fan of animals dying in ANY way, really) - but for those who can stomach it, I think it’s an eye-opener. After reading so much information about how horrifying it is in slaughter houses, I found this video to be a consolation.

http://www.awionline.org/farm/video/hfafootage.htm[/QUOTE]
Thank you for posting that,and that thought provoking paper!
That is the first Video that I have seen that wasn’t footage of some hysterical horse. It was very quiet in there other than the machines. The men were just working along the same as a meat packing plant for beef.
I hear a whistle or two the way someone would whistle at a horse.
While I dont like watching animals killed, that was extremly humane.
And the article that you posted all sould take time to read, there are alot of serious issues brought up. Thank you again!

[SLW]

[QUOTE=Jumphigh83;1865386]
I really wish someone would address why the AQHA, the paint horse association and the veterinary national association (sorry I cant remember what the “real” name is…) support slaughter if it is so contraidicated?![/QUOTE]

Here is one reason why AQHA is not opposed to horse slaughter: In 2004, 89% of the elected directors said processing should be an option for horse owners. The directors represent the membership, the rank and file if you will and the majority of AQHA members are not opposed to having processing available. No one states that it is the preferred way, ever. Only an option.

Hope this helps.

[KristiC]

Who is to say that there will be 90k+ horses unwanted(or homeless) per year when slaughter ends?

ALL of the horses that are dumped off at auctions or feedlots are not owned by poor people or people that are unable to take care/support their horses. Most(IMO) are LAZY people who take the easy way out…or ranchers/breeders that over produce and again take the easy way out. So if this easy way out(slaughter) is removed who says that a good percentage of the owners won’t be able to support their horses? OK so they have to feed their stock another year…big deal…maybe next year they won’t breed that mare that doesn’t produce well or maybe they will retrain/resell that pasture pet or maybe they will try to sell those camp horses to the public.

On another note.
I think I heard on the CSPAN webcast of the House Vote that the AQHA registers 150,000 a year. Is that true? Do we really need that many quarter horses or that # of any breed? Does anyone know how many TBs are registered each year?

[Ridge_Runner]

Is bolting a horse in the shoulder something you consider humane? Honestly? You can’t do that to your own horse without risk of being prosecuted for abuse, so why can they? How about using a cattle prod to force them into the kill box? Multiple stunnings? Humane? I am beyond comprehension on how anyone with eyes and a heart can watch that video and not see suffering. Did you look at that buckskin’s face when he/she tried to lift himself off the floor with the broken shoulder trying to comprehend why suddenly he was in agony and trying to get back on his feet to survive…a horse’s most basic instinct? Honest to God…I am at a loss and sickened that anyone could see humane treatment in that video.

I’m sorry…but that paper was absurd…I started to read it and quit when they hit absurd propaganda arguement of 90,000 unslaughtered horses suddenly becoming 90,000 unwanted and neglected horses without the slaughter houses doing us the favor of “humanely” killing them for us… Again they completely ignore historical facts of past decreases in slaughter NOT causeing increases in abuse/neglect (not to mention common sense) and are using emotional arguments to convince gullible horse owners that slaughter is a good option.

BTW, that video is the same video as SHARK has on their site that has been posted over and over again on this board. You are just seeing more of it apparently. I actually saw several pretty upset horses including one that tried to jump out of the chute…which probably had something to do with the cattle prod shock used to force him through that door.

[fernie_fox]

For those who think this video is OK

THis is a different video to others I have seen.

Still NO HEAD restraint,

STILL swinging at the horses head to stun him…

Still horses trying to avoid the Stunner.

STILL horses being stunned on there necks backs wherever the stunner can make contact.

STILL ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING.

I cannot believe that anyone could think this is okay.

Some of the video befor killing the horses is pristine clean,but when it comes to killing the horse video it is still INHUMANE.

[fernie_fox]

For those who think this video is OK

THis is a different video to others I have seen.

Still NO HEAD restraint,

STILL swinging at the horses head to stun him…

Still horses trying to avoid the Stunner.

STILL horses being stunned on there necks, backs wherever the stunner can make contact.

STILL ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING.

I cannot believe that anyone could look at this and think this is okay.

Some of the video before killing the horses is pristine clean,but when it comes to killing the horse video it is still INHUMANE.

[MSP]

[QUOTE=SLW;1865555]
Here is one reason why AQHA is not opposed to horse slaughter: In 2004, 89% of the elected directors said processing should be an option for horse owners. The directors represent the membership, the rank and file if you will and the majority of AQHA members are not opposed to having processing available. No one states that it is the preferred way, ever. Only an option.

Hope this helps.[/QUOTE]

To my knowledge the AQHA has never taken a poll of its members stand on slaughter. I know they sure havn’t contacted me! What makes you think MOST members are pro-slaughter? The directors opinions are probably just that; their opinions!

Because they have just this year addressed the issue, stating their stance on slaughter, I got the feeling they have been hearing from a lot of members that oppose their position.

[ProzacPuppy]

All I had to do was read Daydream Believers post about the video and I feel nauseous.

I’m still for humane injection and serving up your horse steak with a little helping of barbiturate. In fact, too bad we can’t get the Islamic nations to eat such steaks. Might just bring peace to the middle east.

And no animal should be forced to die as DB describes the video.

There is a belief that ingesting the carcass of an animal that died in such pain, fear and panic is physically bad for you.

[county]

Then there would be a whole lot of sick people in this country that ate beef, pork, and poultry.

[Auventera_Two]

@ProzacPuppy;1865699

I’m still for humane injection and serving up your horse steak with a little helping of barbiturate. In fact, too bad we can’t get the Islamic nations to eat such steaks. Might just bring peace to the middle east.

OK, that was probably the funniest thing I read on this board all day!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[SuperSTB]

I agree with Daydream Believer too… There was nothing humane with the method of handling prior to death of those horses.

Wasn’t there a story not too long ago about a young girl who whacked her horse in the head because he was ticking her off and sooo many people jumped all over her for being abusive! Would it have been okay if she was going to kill the horse in the next few seconds or minutes? Is that not a double standard?

[SLW]

[QUOTE=MSP;1865666]
To my knowledge the AQHA has never taken a poll of its members stand on slaughter. I know they sure havn’t contacted me! What makes you think MOST members are pro-slaughter? The directors opinions are probably just that; their opinions!

Because they have just this year addressed the issue, stating their stance on slaughter, I got the feeling they have been hearing from a lot of members that oppose their position.[/QUOTE]

AQHA states on in the article where those #'s came from that “the directors represent AQHA members- just as members of Congress do in the US govt. They are the link between the members and their association.”

FTR, that poll was conducted in 2004, 2 years before yesterdays vote and in AQHA’s own words “for years, AQHA has opposed legislaton that would- in any way- ban the processing of horses.” AQHA has nothing to hide and has not been hiding.