When someone says a stb can rack . . .

[beaujolais]

When someone says a stb can rack . . . is it really true?

I’ve always heard of that and not paid much attention, regarded it as a stb that was poorly gaited. I figured it would, perhaps, be riding a stb fast, without much contact, and making some sort of mixed trot/pace/mess that I wouldn’t call a rack. Then again, I don’t know much about racking as I have no experience in that area.

I looked around on Youtube at racking standardbreds and found, imo, pretty much what I thought as said above.

Your input? Thanks.

[gaitedincali]

Putting ‘speed racking standardbred’ into YouTube gets you a ton of hits, some of them of champion STB speed rackers. STB are very popular for speed racking classes and to use for breeding speed rackers. Yankee Hustler is full STB and he has at least one championship, I could fine more but I’m on my phone and it’s a pain.

If none of those look like they’re racking IMHO the issue may be your idea of what a rack is. Because the judges and people breeding and training for speed rackers sure believe STB make nice rackers.

[RPM]

I’ve seen a number of speed rackers on YouTube – didn’t realize they were Standardbreds – thanks, gaitedincali! I figured they were registered Racking Horses (the AL breed) who just were really fast at racking.

The rack as I know the gait is the one done by Racking Horses and also the one done by American Saddlebreds. I think it’s the same gait, just done differently and I think with different shoeing? I’ve seen Racking Horses padded up like Big Lick TWHs and Saddlebred show horses without pads.

So to answer sonoma county’s question, I would imagine a Standardbred pacer could rack if taught, and if able to do it. There are plenty of Standardbred ancestors in Saddlebred and TWH pedigrees but I don’t know if any of them are pacers. I know Hambletonian and Messenger were trotters.

[furlong47]

I had one that would rack. Pretty sure I’m not what you’d consider a yahoo type :lol: He raced as a pacer and mainly trotted under saddle. He had to be collected and with just the right contact in order to get the rack. In fact, I discovered it first by accident and then figured out how to cue it again. The rack was smooth and fast, but we didn’t go tearing around like some of the speed racking videos. I think his rack was natural as I don’t believe anyone actually taught him to do it. I sure didn’t, we got him straight from the track, and I don’t think he would have been taught that while racing.

[beaujolais]

Thanks all. And in a stb, a fast rack is smooth? It’s not like riding a pace or a roughly gaited trot?

[beaujolais]

Thanks all. And in a stb, a fast rack is smooth? It’s not like riding a pace or a roughly gaited trot?

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=furlong47;8553428]
I had one that would rack. Pretty sure I’m not what you’d consider a yahoo type :lol: He raced as a pacer and mainly trotted under saddle. He had to be collected and with just the right contact in order to get the rack. In fact, I discovered it first by accident and then figured out how to cue it again. The rack was smooth and fast, but we didn’t go tearing around like some of the speed racking videos. I think his rack was natural as I don’t believe anyone actually taught him to do it. I sure didn’t, we got him straight from the track, and I don’t think he would have been taught that while racing.[/QUOTE]

This excites me. My neighbor breeds and races STB pacers, and I am hoping that I can some day get my hands on one of them as a dressage mount. I would also really like it if I could also teach them to gait under saddle so I can actually keep up with all of my gaited trail riding friends instead of having to canter all the time. :winkgrin:

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=RPM;8553427]
I’ve seen a number of speed rackers on YouTube – didn’t realize they were Standardbreds – thanks, gaitedincali! I figured they were registered Racking Horses (the AL breed) who just were really fast at racking.

The rack as I know the gait is the one done by Racking Horses and also the one done by American Saddlebreds. I think it’s the same gait, just done differently and I think with different shoeing? I’ve seen Racking Horses padded up like Big Lick TWHs and Saddlebred show horses without pads.

So to answer sonoma county’s question, I would imagine a Standardbred pacer could rack if taught, and if able to do it. There are plenty of Standardbred ancestors in Saddlebred and TWH pedigrees but I don’t know if any of them are pacers. I know Hambletonian and Messenger were trotters.[/QUOTE]

I am going to have to study what exactly a rack is. Watching some of the speed racking competitions and they just look like they are pacing to me.

[beaujolais]

“I am going to have to study what exactly a rack is. Watching some of the speed racking competitions and they just look like they are pacing to me.”

+1 & your mare is beautiful, btw.

“There are plenty of Standardbred ancestors in Saddlebred and TWH pedigrees.”

Interesting, . . . , I have to research.

Furlongs - Well, if you say they do, that makes me believe it more. And, no, you don’t seem like a yahoo. :winkgrin:

[Frog_Pond]

[QUOTE=Draftmare;8553943]
I would also really like it if I could also teach them to gait under saddle so I can actually keep up with all of my gaited trail riding friends instead of having to canter all the time. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
Oh, get the right Standardbred and they’ll keep up with your gaited friends at their medium trot

[D_BaldStockings]

Rack is even 4-beat in ideal form, just like a walk, but with suspension between each footfall.
Pace is synchronized 2 legs same side in unison.

in a rack the hind foot of the same side pair ‘speeds up’ nearly a 1/2 stride ahead of the forefoot to result in the 4-beat. In an ideal rack the suspension is great enough to result in a singlefoot (one foot grounded only at a time). An ideal rack is even 1-2-3-4.

Rack

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8VvrJTOX4SY/hqdefault.jpg
http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Flashcube/media/LookAtFlashGo.jpg.html

Pace

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/files/imagecache/%2Fthinking-out-loud-bc.jpg

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=sonomacounty;8554484]
“I am going to have to study what exactly a rack is. Watching some of the speed racking competitions and they just look like they are pacing to me.”

+1 & your mare is beautiful, btw.[/QUOTE]

Thanks!

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=Frog Pond;8554590]
Oh, get the right Standardbred and they’ll keep up with your gaited friends at their medium trot ;-)[/QUOTE]

That would be nice! My current girl and I struggle at times, but I don’t want to tell them that they can’t gait their horses either.

[beaujolais]

So it’s a pace but the hind foot lands a tiny bit before the front foot?

“The footfall sequence of the gaits in the rack family are the same as that of the walk: * right hind, right front, left hind, left front.”

I guess to induce that you’d use a lighter shoe in the back, square the toe & then heavier shoe in front. Does that sound right?

[sk_pacer]

Usually just a heavier shoe in front works but not so heavy the horse trots; just a couple of ounces heavier.

[gaitedincali]

[QUOTE=sonomacounty;8554960]
So it’s a pace but the hind foot lands a tiny bit before the front foot?

“The footfall sequence of the gaits in the rack family are the same as that of the walk: * right hind, right front, left hind, left front.”

I guess to induce that you’d use a lighter shoe in the back, square the toe & then heavier shoe in front. Does that sound right?[/QUOTE]

Easy gaits are usually classified as either square, lateral or diagonal. A speed rack is lateral and a pace is lateral so I guess you could say a rack is like a pace in that way. Little differences in timing add up.

I got my old STB doing a nice saddle rack by encouraging him to relax his top line, stretch into the contact and lots of bending and lateral work. It would have been faster to just nail the gait on but I’m not comfortable with that.

[RPM]

A rack is a fast four-beat lateral gait. It’s basically the same as a running walk except the horse does it differently and the suspension is different (if that makes any sense!). It’s a speeded-up slow gait (one of the five show gaits of a 5-gaited ASB).

A pace is a two-beat lateral gait.

You can really hear the difference on a paved surface (I do NOT approve of riding horses at speed on pavement! But you can hear the gaits, just as you can hear a good rack, or running walk, or foxtrot in a well-surfaced arena).

ASB 5 gaits (the rack comes about 1:33 in)–
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGxDtbcIExg

Racking horse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YroZsM16Igs

Pacers (you can really see the gait in the rear and front views):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E1sQhi7Q2E

Racking and pacing Standardbred:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rswNroDK_r8

You can really hear the 4-beat gait on the pavement in this last video. Then it speeds up to 2-beat for just a few strides at the end.

[D_BaldStockings]

[QUOTE=sonomacounty;8554960]
So it’s a pace but the hind foot lands a tiny bit before the front foot?

“The footfall sequence of the gaits in the rack family are the same as that of the walk: * right hind, right front, left hind, left front.”

I guess to induce that you’d use a lighter shoe in the back, square the toe & then heavier shoe in front. Does that sound right?[/QUOTE]

No, a half stride.

If your feet and your friend’s were on a bicycle built for two with bicycle pedals going around, the fronts would be up at top and down at bottom (that would be the grounded foot) while the rear would be at level to the horizon with the same side forward in back as is up in the front.

Ideally the front foot lifts off before the hind lands… this is one major difference between running walk and rack.

A ‘normal’ walk is without suspension.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MPOjAoZRcEU/TAfeozHaHpI/AAAAAAAAHUI/F0inUZ3dwOA/s400/baywalking.jpg

put ‘air’ between the footfalls and you have a rack.
http://www.rackmupstables.com/sitebuilder/images/ab555473_3202344496695_755993395_n-391x251.jpg

[roseymare]

All of the racks, stepping paces, running walks, foxtrots, finos, etc etc have the same footfall sequence- the same as a the walk. LH LF RH RF. The differences come in the timing. The timing in the air versus on the ground. And in wether the horse is flexed or ventroflexed in their topline. Foxtrot and running walk are flexed, others ventroflexed.

[SmartAlex]

[QUOTE=sonomacounty;8554484]
“There are plenty of Standardbred ancestors in Saddlebred and TWH pedigrees.”

Interesting, . . . , I have to research. [/QUOTE]

ASBs, STBs, TWHs and Morgans are all kissing cousins. Back in the day, a horse could be inspected and accepted into more than one stud book similar to how Warmbloods work today.

I’d think a trotting STB could be taught to rack just as easily as a ASB, but a natural pacer would be hard to break up. You would be suprized how many American breeds can and have been be taught to rack. For instance, here is a photo of the Crabbet Arabian stallion *Raseyn racking:
http://crabbet.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/29raseynracking.jpg