When they blow thru Ace, does it make them worse?

[Lieslot]

Just had a rather unexpected fright.

Horse is very fly sensitive, can barely be turned out, needs flysheet/boots/mask.
Was in his stall which actually isn’t buggy at all.
Suddenly goes mental bucking and kicking the walls like mad, I thought he was going to jump over the dutch door.

It looked like something seriously big was stuck under his sheet, I managed to get in there and pull the sheet off, whilst risking being double barred.
He settles somewhat. I put sheet back on and within 10 minutes same thing, this time I did not see anything stuck underneath it, but when I pulled it off I found 2 large welts, which he was biting violently at, to the point scraping off the hair. I leave him without a sheet and he continues to be very unsettled. I take him out to grass to handgraze and clear his mind, but now even the tiniest fly and he’s bucking at the end of my leadrope. I could barely control him, put him back in stall and gave 3cc Ace in muscle. I wasn’t thinking clear, likely 3cc was not enough, it didn’t touch him at all, if anything he just got more violent about the kicking & bucking, it really started to scare me what he was going to do.

With a lot of screaming to get his attention, I managed to get .5cc Dormosedan in him (in the vein or next to it, don’t even know) and he’s now droopy, hopefully until dark when there should be no more flies, unless he feels imaginary ones :(.

Pffff, now what, I sure hope he forgot about this by the time he wakes out of it.

So can Ace make them worse when they are in panic? I know it may not always work when they are already wound up, but would it make them worse?

And if he got bitten by something nasty, wasp, bomberfly, … would it still hurt afterwards for that long? What could I give him to rid him of the sensations that bothers him.
I already put hydrocortisone on there to no avail.

[tabula_rashah]

Yes, in my experience Ace will not work and can definitely make them more violent if they are already keyed up when you give it

[Sansena]

I never give Ace during an episode to quiet them. Only well before any stimuli, then I put in ear plugs because apparently Ace can exaggerate and warp sounds. So, I like Ace IM 30minutes before the first few tack walks after a month of stall rest. But honestly, I prefer Dorm IV for that.

But I don’t recommend IV if you’re not 200% confident in your ability to hit a vein. And I would never sedate someone else’s horse.

[Tiffani_B]

I got stung by a tarantula hawk last weekend and Oh. My. Lawd. I thought someone stuck a burning brand on my hand for about 3 hours. It was pain like nothing I’ve ever experienced before. It even hurt down into the muscle and using my thumb was almost impossible for a few days (got stung on the back of my right thumb near the base knuckle). It swelled up and about 4" around it turned bright red. The vein near to it because swollen and I could see the dark blue blood. It was scary - I didn’t know if I should go to the hospital or what. I couldn’t TOUCH it for days and even now over a week later it’s sensitive to air currents or water. I sprayed it with my asthma inhaler almost immediately and iced it for about 30 minutes, which helped a tiny bit but OMG.

If a horse got stung by one of these? They would probably go completely apeshit. As in lose their mind. If you were riding or handling one at the time, I can imagine it being a VERY dangerous situation and yes, the pain can last for a LONG time, even if it was “just” a wasp or hornet.

[vxf111]

In my experience, yes. Tried Ace once to calm a bad loader while working on getting him more used to the loading. Once he saw the trailer he freaked out (per usual) and was 10x more amped than off-Ace. Did not take the edge off at all and freaked him out worse once he got wound up.

[Lieslot]

Not sure what’s going on, he is not itchy all over, not just the bug bite spot :(.

Vet said to bathe for a long time and nsaid, because he prefers not to do steroids just yet. But if no matter soon, he has to come out and give anti-histamine or steroids.

Something not right.
He’s flickering his skin all over his body, scratching himself everywhere and kicking out :(.

[Lieslot]

Vet been now, got a shot of Dex & more sedation.
It’s weird, he keeps muscle twitching as if flies are landing on him everywhere.
No hives however.

I hope this will be over by the morning.

[seabreeze]

Poor guy. Maybe he’s having a reaction to something. I watched my horse buck violently 38 times in a row (bam-bam-bam-bam…) over a horsefly. He doesn’t do bugs well, and he probably would’ve been as you described had he been inside.

I hope everything is better in the morning.

[Lieslot]

He’s settled again this morning, phew.
Sorry about the scrambled writing, I was clearly as stressed as the horse and auto-txt on a smartphone is a pain in the ***.

I do have a problem here, my neighbor is a professional bee-farmer, and it looks like I have bees trying to hive in his stall in between the kickboards. I saw them buzzing around this morning.
I’m fairly certain it was a beesting.

A couple of years back I had quite a hive in my run-in shed behind the kickboards. So far they haven’t hived yet, just buzzing around looking for a spot I think.
I’m not really familiar with bees and when they sting or how to get them to go elsewhere. Any advice on this very welcome!!

I will put him in a different stall, but those bees will go to the other stalls too I fear.

There’s actually only a few of them flying around, but one is enough to sting I guess.

[Laurierace]

You do not ever use ace to attempt to tranq an already upset horse as you found out. It has to be used before they get upset like for the farrier or loading etc. Dorm for an upset horse is a much better option.

[JB]

Could be the stinger of whatever it was is still stuck in there.

As mentioned, it’s a bad idea to give Ace to an upset horse - doesn’t work (well) and can often make things worse.

Horses have also been known to be startled enough while on Ace, when given before they become upset, and be MORE upset about The Thing than if they’d not had it, because of how it affects their senses. So many farriers will refuse to work under a horse who is aced for that very reason.

[SaddleUp158]

Oh my, no fun with the bees. Does your bee-farmer neighbor know any tricks to convince the bees that your stalls are not the place to build their new home? He would be my first go to person for help since he is most likely much more knowledgeable about the bees. Good luck! I feel for ya!

[Lieslot]

Thanks!

Yes, I sure learned the hard way, no more Ace, that’s for sure.

I will go see my neighbor later this morning and see what he can suggest.
I just can’t believe I always run into rare problems, sigh.

He’s still settled, but sort of on alert. I left him sheetless so he can fend off whatever lands on him.
I’ve taken the flysheets off the other 2 horses too, so nothing can get trapped underneath. For now I’d rather they squish and kick vs having a bee stuck under their sheet. Luckily the other 2 are not over-reactive.

[JB]

One reason I stopped using fly sheets is that inevitably a giant B-52 Bomber would get up under there, and that’s just, well…yeah…

[nu2u]

[QUOTE=JB;8287219]
One reason I stopped using fly sheets is that inevitably a giant B-52 Bomber would get up under there, and that’s just, well…yeah…[/QUOTE]

Yep. I would much rather bring in then sheet…B52s LOVE my girl and she HATES them. One thing I did find that works… bright safety yellow mesh quarter sheet when I ride, I know I know, but I swear the color is SO UNnatural it tricks the bugs and B52s…seriously considering buying a safety yellow mesh sheet for turn out next bomber season…otherwise she has to come inside if there are ANY bombers out.

[Lieslot]

Apparently they’ll either hive quickly or move on. If they hive it’ll be obvious as there suddenly will be a lot more, so I can take action.

He wondered if something in the natural flyspray I use is attracting them.
I use Clac Deo mixed with some Avon-Skin-So-Soft.
I was out on the trail with my other guy just now and a few were hoovering around us. Perhaps I’ll use a permethrin based spray for a few days.

I agree, I’ve never had much problems with flies stuck under a sheet, but I’d rather they can get away from them vs them stuck underneath the sheet. This was no fun.

[Scratch_N_Dent]

Once had a horse I was holding get stung by a bald-faced hornet (I am in Ontario), under his blanket and all hell broke loose and things were nuts for a good 45 minutes. I’ve been stung and it takes a long time for the pain to go away. Bees don’t seem quite as bad - good luck!

[nu2u]

One thing I have heard about bees is they are attracted to carbon dioxide…and horses exhale a lot of that through their big 'ol nostrils.

[HealingHeart]

Try oak meal baths…, but wondered if peppermint oil in bath might help with fly issue…

[Lieslot]

Interesting about the carbon dioxide, didn’t know, and yes horses exhale a lot of that.
They were still buzzing in & out yesterday, but they seem to leave horse & human alone at present. Strangely enough ony interested in the one stall.

I was thinking of closing that stall up for a few hours (as much as that is possible) and get one of those foggers, see if the smell of that would deter them.

He is non-reactive anymore, luckily and itch is a lot better.

@Scratch N Dent

Once had a horse I was holding get stung by a bald-faced hornet (I am in Ontario), under his blanket and all hell broke loose and things were nuts for a good 45 minutes.

Yes, you can say the same here, not sure what he would have done had he been out, might well have jumped my fence.

@Tiffani B

I got stung by a tarantula hawk last weekend and Oh. My. Lawd. I thought someone stuck a burning brand on my hand for about 3 hours. It was pain like nothing I’ve ever experienced before.

Ouch, ouch, only when we experience something like it ourselves do we understand. It likely hurt him really badly initially and the only way he knew to react was go crazy.
I hope not to have this ever again.

@HealingHeart

Try oak meal baths…, but wondered if peppermint oil in bath might help with fly issue…

Thanks, I didn’t think of oatmeal at that time, would have been a good idea, since I have that laying around.
For now I’m using regular permetrhin spray (TriTec), until no more bees around. Good suggestion, I don’t have peppermint oil however. Not sure where to find that, other than order online.